Hi everybody,
a couple of weeks ago I bought an old Sony CDP-195 (1991/92) at the flea market. The unit was sold for 10 euros as “non working”, so it looked like a good chance to try to learn something about CD players, which I’m not really confident with.
The player looks 95% dead. The only thing (half) working is the tray: it opens but it doesn’t close. It only does If you switch the unit off (with the tray open), and then switch it back on. This leads me to exclude contacts or mechanical problems. Microswitches have been cleaned anyway, as described in Mooly’s CDP-790 thread.
The front panel seem to work: all the buttons respond correctly, displaying the respective mode or symbol (Play, Stop, Pause, Track selection, functions etc.) except that nothing happens.
All the rest is dead. No action by the sled and spinning motors, no movements of the pickup, no light from the laser. When a CD is inserted, the BD Board doesn’t lift up, so the disc doesn’t lock to the platter and falls around.
The tensions printed on the Main Board have been tested and look ok. Discrete components have been tested and look ok.
Anyway, even if the BD board is disconnected (ribbon cable detached), and the player is in stop mode, transistors Q202 and Q208 become hot quickly. Not sure whether it’s a problem or not, maybe it’s just the way it should be, since Q208 has a heatsink.
Tension on pin 1 (+7v) and 6 (+5v) of the BD Board ribbon cable socket are ok on the Main Board side.
I suspect there’s a problem with IC102 (LA6532M), the one that controls the motors. I checked the tensions in Play mode, and I have just 2,7v on the pins 18/19 (controlling the spindle M) and 0v on pins 12/13 (controlling the Sled M).
I’m tempted to replace the IC, but I’m not 100% sure. I read everywhere that replacing the laser unit will solve almost any problem, but I suspect this time the fault is elsewhere.
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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PS Service Manual attached
PPS For the ones following my other thread about the infamous Transylvania cassette recorder/player, the unit is still on hold, but I haven't give up. Just had enough of it. Sooner or later I'll come back to it.
a couple of weeks ago I bought an old Sony CDP-195 (1991/92) at the flea market. The unit was sold for 10 euros as “non working”, so it looked like a good chance to try to learn something about CD players, which I’m not really confident with.
The player looks 95% dead. The only thing (half) working is the tray: it opens but it doesn’t close. It only does If you switch the unit off (with the tray open), and then switch it back on. This leads me to exclude contacts or mechanical problems. Microswitches have been cleaned anyway, as described in Mooly’s CDP-790 thread.
The front panel seem to work: all the buttons respond correctly, displaying the respective mode or symbol (Play, Stop, Pause, Track selection, functions etc.) except that nothing happens.
All the rest is dead. No action by the sled and spinning motors, no movements of the pickup, no light from the laser. When a CD is inserted, the BD Board doesn’t lift up, so the disc doesn’t lock to the platter and falls around.
The tensions printed on the Main Board have been tested and look ok. Discrete components have been tested and look ok.
Anyway, even if the BD board is disconnected (ribbon cable detached), and the player is in stop mode, transistors Q202 and Q208 become hot quickly. Not sure whether it’s a problem or not, maybe it’s just the way it should be, since Q208 has a heatsink.
Tension on pin 1 (+7v) and 6 (+5v) of the BD Board ribbon cable socket are ok on the Main Board side.
I suspect there’s a problem with IC102 (LA6532M), the one that controls the motors. I checked the tensions in Play mode, and I have just 2,7v on the pins 18/19 (controlling the spindle M) and 0v on pins 12/13 (controlling the Sled M).
I’m tempted to replace the IC, but I’m not 100% sure. I read everywhere that replacing the laser unit will solve almost any problem, but I suspect this time the fault is elsewhere.
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
--------
PS Service Manual attached
PPS For the ones following my other thread about the infamous Transylvania cassette recorder/player, the unit is still on hold, but I haven't give up. Just had enough of it. Sooner or later I'll come back to it.
Hi,
Does the motor close the tray when you push it a little with the finger ? Looks like a ROM has been shorted perhaps, do you suspect it has been opened or tweaked already ?
Not sure you should spend more monney to fix it by tries and errors in the dark. And it is not a high end cd player, a basic model only.
But at 10 e if you think twice, you have a lot of parts to desolder for future diy, a power supply, some op amps and a nice case. Not a bad deal.
Does the motor close the tray when you push it a little with the finger ? Looks like a ROM has been shorted perhaps, do you suspect it has been opened or tweaked already ?
Not sure you should spend more monney to fix it by tries and errors in the dark. And it is not a high end cd player, a basic model only.
But at 10 e if you think twice, you have a lot of parts to desolder for future diy, a power supply, some op amps and a nice case. Not a bad deal.
Hi diyiggy,
Thanks very much for your reply. I have a (bad) update to it.
I found I had an ICP open, which seems to be a quite common fail on Sonys CDP. I replaced it with an identical one, and nothing appeared to change.
After a couple of times of switching on and off for testing, the unit completely died. No longer illuminating display, no tray open, nothing. All the component are cold (as you’d expect from any respectable corpse).
Both the ICP used in the circuit are ok. I checked tensions on any indicated point and it looks like I have nothing nowhere, except at the bridge output and on pin 1 of the IC101 regulator. Power supply capacitors look ok.
I have to investigate further to find out the way to at least restore the unit at the previous conditions, so that I can start over the fault finding.
As far as the “Does it worth?” question, yes I know it’s actually pointless to spend such time (and likely money) on such a cheap and old piece of gear, but I’m doing this mostly for learning purposes, and I’d rather prefer to lose some (little) money ad learning something, than save 20 or 30 euros and learn nothing. Understanding its circuitry and possibly the ways it can fail, would be virtually priceless for me. If my skill level and mastery of the subject will grow, I hope to be able to put my hands on some high end piece from the Golden Age of hifi, sooner or later.
PS I don't think anybody tried to service the unit before me.
Thanks very much for your reply. I have a (bad) update to it.
I found I had an ICP open, which seems to be a quite common fail on Sonys CDP. I replaced it with an identical one, and nothing appeared to change.
After a couple of times of switching on and off for testing, the unit completely died. No longer illuminating display, no tray open, nothing. All the component are cold (as you’d expect from any respectable corpse).
Both the ICP used in the circuit are ok. I checked tensions on any indicated point and it looks like I have nothing nowhere, except at the bridge output and on pin 1 of the IC101 regulator. Power supply capacitors look ok.
I have to investigate further to find out the way to at least restore the unit at the previous conditions, so that I can start over the fault finding.
As far as the “Does it worth?” question, yes I know it’s actually pointless to spend such time (and likely money) on such a cheap and old piece of gear, but I’m doing this mostly for learning purposes, and I’d rather prefer to lose some (little) money ad learning something, than save 20 or 30 euros and learn nothing. Understanding its circuitry and possibly the ways it can fail, would be virtually priceless for me. If my skill level and mastery of the subject will grow, I hope to be able to put my hands on some high end piece from the Golden Age of hifi, sooner or later.
PS I don't think anybody tried to service the unit before me.
As far you are aware about that, it is okay and your freedom of course to try and an interresting task ! 🙂
Assuming the unit had no short(s), the ROM have not been impacted by an electrical disease, we can expect the ICs are the most solid parts of an electronic unit. I am not an EE, but in a same scenario, I would check all the fragile parts that maybe suffer for a reason or another : diodes, switches, relays, trimable resistors, pushable interuptors on the pcb if there, tantal caps. Then bigger chemical ones around the IC, cold joints. Notice some carbon resistor migth have drifted but not sure it is a possible culpritt there.
SO if you have zero current, check first : fuse or poly switcch, then rectifier and smoothing cap. If it is a SMPS pwer supply check the big capacitor rated several hundred of volt (be carefull with that, it can kills you).
You will need to work on an ESD free plan and same for your hand (Earth connection from the body), a good solder station as some parts needs to be lifted for control and of course a DVM.
I hope a teached EE from the forum or a member with greater knowledge than I, will help you with better advices.
good luck for your projects
cheers
Assuming the unit had no short(s), the ROM have not been impacted by an electrical disease, we can expect the ICs are the most solid parts of an electronic unit. I am not an EE, but in a same scenario, I would check all the fragile parts that maybe suffer for a reason or another : diodes, switches, relays, trimable resistors, pushable interuptors on the pcb if there, tantal caps. Then bigger chemical ones around the IC, cold joints. Notice some carbon resistor migth have drifted but not sure it is a possible culpritt there.
SO if you have zero current, check first : fuse or poly switcch, then rectifier and smoothing cap. If it is a SMPS pwer supply check the big capacitor rated several hundred of volt (be carefull with that, it can kills you).
You will need to work on an ESD free plan and same for your hand (Earth connection from the body), a good solder station as some parts needs to be lifted for control and of course a DVM.
I hope a teached EE from the forum or a member with greater knowledge than I, will help you with better advices.
good luck for your projects
cheers
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Thank you for your message, diyiggy.
Further update: I found out that the previously broken and replaced ICP burned again. I didn't notice at first cause it's in parallel with a 10ohm resistor, so the continuity test gave me a beep. It's obvious that something is drawing much current, maybe a short somewhere, or a component gone bad. Anyway, the current at the leads of the ICP is 500mA, where the ICP itself is rated 1A. Maybe the overload only occurs in a particular condition? Have to investigate further.
All the discrete components have been checked and look ok, all the tensions at testing points are ok, but nothing happens: no display, none of the motors is spinning, except the lens and the spindle motor have a half-second jump at startup. No mechanical issues though, all the mechanism move smoothly if worked by hand. The CD player is from early 90s and has a linear power supply, the 2 power transistors become hot quickly, but I really can't figure out what's going wrong. I looked for shorts or whatever could suggest an abnormal current drawing, but no luck.
PS I'm not an expert but not a newbie either. I've been into electronics (mostly analog audio) in the early 70s and stopped after few years. Now I'm trying to start over again, hoping to gain a better knowledge, also thanks to the Internet and forum like this, something we couldn't even imagine back then.
Further update: I found out that the previously broken and replaced ICP burned again. I didn't notice at first cause it's in parallel with a 10ohm resistor, so the continuity test gave me a beep. It's obvious that something is drawing much current, maybe a short somewhere, or a component gone bad. Anyway, the current at the leads of the ICP is 500mA, where the ICP itself is rated 1A. Maybe the overload only occurs in a particular condition? Have to investigate further.
All the discrete components have been checked and look ok, all the tensions at testing points are ok, but nothing happens: no display, none of the motors is spinning, except the lens and the spindle motor have a half-second jump at startup. No mechanical issues though, all the mechanism move smoothly if worked by hand. The CD player is from early 90s and has a linear power supply, the 2 power transistors become hot quickly, but I really can't figure out what's going wrong. I looked for shorts or whatever could suggest an abnormal current drawing, but no luck.
PS I'm not an expert but not a newbie either. I've been into electronics (mostly analog audio) in the early 70s and stopped after few years. Now I'm trying to start over again, hoping to gain a better knowledge, also thanks to the Internet and forum like this, something we couldn't even imagine back then.
So you have checked the red diodes as well.... no trimable resistors nore caps shorted...
Have you then the possibility to unplug the dac pcb conector CN40821p & CN4044p from IC401 (to isolate it from the the main board) and just feed IC401 on its +5V/Gnd pins, story to see if there is still life and ligth on the cd player front panel and the cd player to be controlled still ?
Have you then the possibility to unplug the dac pcb conector CN40821p & CN4044p from IC401 (to isolate it from the the main board) and just feed IC401 on its +5V/Gnd pins, story to see if there is still life and ligth on the cd player front panel and the cd player to be controlled still ?
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Yes, I have checked all the diodes on board, just to see if they were shorted or open, and they look ok. I'll recheck them all anyway.
No trimmer resistors on the main and display board. The only ones are on the BD Board and on the KSS laser. I only checked the two ones on the board, they're 10k as indicated.
As far as you suggestion, do you mean CN401-28p (the big one), and CN404-4p (the switch board connector)? If I unplug the switch board connector I will have to use an external power source.
Btw, doesn't the fluorescent display need -30v also?
No trimmer resistors on the main and display board. The only ones are on the BD Board and on the KSS laser. I only checked the two ones on the board, they're 10k as indicated.
As far as you suggestion, do you mean CN401-28p (the big one), and CN404-4p (the switch board connector)? If I unplug the switch board connector I will have to use an external power source.
Btw, doesn't the fluorescent display need -30v also?
Possible. Yes external, to see if it has suffer from a short. The idea is to isolate it to check if the original problem hasn't short it. Of course before check if you have the V at the dedicated pins before unpluging the two connectors. If no ligth and command ic 401 has certainly passed !
You could in a scond time (if ic401 still alive) if possible to unplug all the laser and motors loads if there are connectors from the main board towarf d them, then work around the idea of what makes the iC you swapped to burn : to much current ? too much voltage, a short ?
Just my 2 cents logicc to open the ball as I too am an ethusiast only!
perhaps a very experienced tech like @anatech migth have an idea or two, but not easy when not being in front of the unit with proper tool and knowledge.
The manual you link is a must, but you should also shoot the IC board for a clean picture here.
You could in a scond time (if ic401 still alive) if possible to unplug all the laser and motors loads if there are connectors from the main board towarf d them, then work around the idea of what makes the iC you swapped to burn : to much current ? too much voltage, a short ?
Just my 2 cents logicc to open the ball as I too am an ethusiast only!
perhaps a very experienced tech like @anatech migth have an idea or two, but not easy when not being in front of the unit with proper tool and knowledge.
The manual you link is a must, but you should also shoot the IC board for a clean picture here.
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Hi diyiggy,
Thanks.
I may have missed something in my speed read, so please bear with me. If you're blowing the fuse you probably have a short. It sound momentary. Which semi fuse is it exactly? I have to get the manual and look. 1/2 amp draw seems very high. Something should be getting warm.
The KSS-240A is pretty problem-free. The laser current control is on the head, so very little chance of someone blowing the diode. We have seen the occasional driver IC for the servos go before, rare. Motors can have a shorted commutator. I test at low voltage through about 100R and look at the voltage or current waveform with a scope. You can see a short easily, low RPM on the motor.
If it is really difficult to find, use an external power supply for the affected supply, short the semi-fuse (no point in blowing one and we know it would go). Increase the voltage no higher than the normal supply, isolated from the main board of course! If you begin drawing current, let it heat up. The hot thing is where th current is going. It may be the driver IC, but not it's fault. The lower drive voltages you posted are normal.
-Chris
Thanks.
I may have missed something in my speed read, so please bear with me. If you're blowing the fuse you probably have a short. It sound momentary. Which semi fuse is it exactly? I have to get the manual and look. 1/2 amp draw seems very high. Something should be getting warm.
The KSS-240A is pretty problem-free. The laser current control is on the head, so very little chance of someone blowing the diode. We have seen the occasional driver IC for the servos go before, rare. Motors can have a shorted commutator. I test at low voltage through about 100R and look at the voltage or current waveform with a scope. You can see a short easily, low RPM on the motor.
If it is really difficult to find, use an external power supply for the affected supply, short the semi-fuse (no point in blowing one and we know it would go). Increase the voltage no higher than the normal supply, isolated from the main board of course! If you begin drawing current, let it heat up. The hot thing is where th current is going. It may be the driver IC, but not it's fault. The lower drive voltages you posted are normal.
-Chris
Hi anatech,
thanks very much for joining the discussion, and thank you diyiggy for asking for backup.
The ICP is PS201. The transistor getting hot is Q203 (it has a heatsink, but it seems too hot anyway). Even Q208 and Q202 become quite warm, and so IC202 and IC203, not sure if it's normal. I think there's something wrong around the voltage regulators (Q207, 208) but they don't look short or open.
thanks very much for joining the discussion, and thank you diyiggy for asking for backup.
The ICP is PS201. The transistor getting hot is Q203 (it has a heatsink, but it seems too hot anyway). Even Q208 and Q202 become quite warm, and so IC202 and IC203, not sure if it's normal. I think there's something wrong around the voltage regulators (Q207, 208) but they don't look short or open.
I'm not even sure I have a complete schematic. Really hard to follow.
Some of those regulators do run pretty warm some times. IC 203 shouldn't get warm, it's an op amp. Supplies aren't too high on it either. Naw, the manual I downloaded is not complete. I can't find most of those parts.
PS201 is in the negative supply. Current draw shouldn't be that high. There is sometimes a bias through the focus coil (check the voltage across it) to compensate for gravity. Disc table height might make that worse, but it should never be enough to blow the semi-fuse.
Are the regulated voltages from Q207 and Q208 normal? That section is missing in the manual I have. If you have a clean PDF, PM me and I'll give you my email address. Then we can get somewhere.
Some of those regulators do run pretty warm some times. IC 203 shouldn't get warm, it's an op amp. Supplies aren't too high on it either. Naw, the manual I downloaded is not complete. I can't find most of those parts.
PS201 is in the negative supply. Current draw shouldn't be that high. There is sometimes a bias through the focus coil (check the voltage across it) to compensate for gravity. Disc table height might make that worse, but it should never be enough to blow the semi-fuse.
Are the regulated voltages from Q207 and Q208 normal? That section is missing in the manual I have. If you have a clean PDF, PM me and I'll give you my email address. Then we can get somewhere.
Hi anatech,
thank you. The manual I attached in the original post is the most complete I found, it's got the complete schematics, the PCBs layout, the block diagram and the complete component list. Graphic quality is bad, as usual in these cases (umpteenth-grade photocopy) but I think it's the complete version. I will look for something clearer anyway.
As far as Q207 and Q208, I don't remember the values, I'll have to check again.
I'm gradually trying to build myself a method, based on what I learnt on the road and from senior's advice, so now I take notes of everything, take pictures, save datasheets and schematics and collect them for future reference, keeping everything organized in folders per project (both paper and digital).
PS If needed, I can PM you the manual.
thank you. The manual I attached in the original post is the most complete I found, it's got the complete schematics, the PCBs layout, the block diagram and the complete component list. Graphic quality is bad, as usual in these cases (umpteenth-grade photocopy) but I think it's the complete version. I will look for something clearer anyway.
As far as Q207 and Q208, I don't remember the values, I'll have to check again.
I'm gradually trying to build myself a method, based on what I learnt on the road and from senior's advice, so now I take notes of everything, take pictures, save datasheets and schematics and collect them for future reference, keeping everything organized in folders per project (both paper and digital).
PS If needed, I can PM you the manual.
Hi m-tagg,
Let's try that.
Yes, I take pictures, make copious notes and capture screen traces where applicable. It's a very good habit. Saving manuals is wise. I used to have to buy them before the internet, I had 8 filing cabinets full by the time I sold my shop (hard loss).
I've had people mess with things after I repair them. Pictures allowed me to prove this - end of story.
You have a PM
Let's try that.
Yes, I take pictures, make copious notes and capture screen traces where applicable. It's a very good habit. Saving manuals is wise. I used to have to buy them before the internet, I had 8 filing cabinets full by the time I sold my shop (hard loss).
I've had people mess with things after I repair them. Pictures allowed me to prove this - end of story.
You have a PM
Try to check all the voltages in the IC201 to IC203 square area shown in the PDF (power supply and regs) to see if thee voltages are fine. Conectors are easier to probe with the DCM than discrete parts sometimes too. Check if the fuse PS102 and 202 are not open with the DVM
As I said if you check the servo of the command behind the front of the unit to see if the -31V and 5V are there and you see no ligths, it means that it is dead, so the ccd player too : can save you time !
Can be a diode from therectifier too but you have said to check the AC compliance at their feet iirc.
Proceed with logic : if a part has burned, it is not necessarily the origin of the break but a consequence of something else you have to fix elsewhere. Same cause same effect.
As I said if you check the servo of the command behind the front of the unit to see if the -31V and 5V are there and you see no ligths, it means that it is dead, so the ccd player too : can save you time !
Can be a diode from therectifier too but you have said to check the AC compliance at their feet iirc.
Proceed with logic : if a part has burned, it is not necessarily the origin of the break but a consequence of something else you have to fix elsewhere. Same cause same effect.
Definitely, if you have no - VDC supply for the display, it will remain dark. IO have seen failures in the negative bias supply for fluorescent displays.
My point was : if you have the VDC at the feets of the control unit IC and no ligth, then the control unit is dead : game over ! So something to test first, no ? Of course if no voltage, ic control not the culpritt, check PS. (my noob logic and bad english writting, sorry for that)
Hi anatech & diyiggy,
Thanks for your help.
Well I tested the tensions on Q207 & Q208.
Q207: Base and Emitter both ok in standby and power on mode. Collector should be 9.5v, I have 12.03v in standby and 10v in power on mode.
Q208: Collector should be 10.2. I have 12v in standby and 10v in power on mode (B and E are connected with E and C of Q207, so the value is the same).
@diyiggy: Yes I have +5v and -30v (-31 actually) on the 28pin connector, so the power goes to the display. Also checked the ribbon continuity to the display board.
I don't think the display is gone. It worked when I took the unit, hope I didn't kill it by measuring and switching the CDP on and off all the time.
At the rectifier out I have 23.8v (on) and 26v (standby)
@anatech: thanks for your message, I’m answering right now.
Thanks for your help.
Well I tested the tensions on Q207 & Q208.
Q207: Base and Emitter both ok in standby and power on mode. Collector should be 9.5v, I have 12.03v in standby and 10v in power on mode.
Q208: Collector should be 10.2. I have 12v in standby and 10v in power on mode (B and E are connected with E and C of Q207, so the value is the same).
@diyiggy: Yes I have +5v and -30v (-31 actually) on the 28pin connector, so the power goes to the display. Also checked the ribbon continuity to the display board.
I don't think the display is gone. It worked when I took the unit, hope I didn't kill it by measuring and switching the CDP on and off all the time.
At the rectifier out I have 23.8v (on) and 26v (standby)
@anatech: thanks for your message, I’m answering right now.
Hi m-tagg,
Just a thought. I do this as a normal thing. Did you look at your power supplies with an oscilloscope to check ripple and regulator dropouts? Check the raw supplies and also the regulated outputs.
I don't think you hurt anything by cycling the power.
Just a thought. I do this as a normal thing. Did you look at your power supplies with an oscilloscope to check ripple and regulator dropouts? Check the raw supplies and also the regulated outputs.
I don't think you hurt anything by cycling the power.
Hi anatech,
thank you. No, I didn't check the ripple, but now my scope is broken and I can't do it anyway. I had to send back my handheld OWON cause it died after one week of use. I'm in the process of building myself a super-basic lab, and I have a lot of equipment to get yet, so I don't have another.
It will take forever until they check if I have the right to be refund, and then shipping will take about a month. I had to send pics and video and still no reply. The store is in China and God only knows when I will have the scope back. I'm seriously thinking about buying another.
Anyway, lesson learnt: never buy essential tools from the other side of the world.
thank you. No, I didn't check the ripple, but now my scope is broken and I can't do it anyway. I had to send back my handheld OWON cause it died after one week of use. I'm in the process of building myself a super-basic lab, and I have a lot of equipment to get yet, so I don't have another.
It will take forever until they check if I have the right to be refund, and then shipping will take about a month. I had to send pics and video and still no reply. The store is in China and God only knows when I will have the scope back. I'm seriously thinking about buying another.
Anyway, lesson learnt: never buy essential tools from the other side of the world.
Well, you depend on these tools for accurate answers. Never fight your tools!
Please look into getting an analogue oscilloscope. 100 MHz dual trace scopes are not hard to find, and they are far superior to digital scopes costing 10x more. They just don't do some tricks, but what is the main use of the instrument? Concentrate on that.
I keep some nice analogue oscilloscopes. I have a $25K Keysight digital (MSOX3104T, one of the better ones in that price class). My old analogue oscilloscopes blow them all away for detail and noise. For a DVM, a used HP/Agilent/Keysight, or Fluke is far better than most other handheld meters you will find out there. I have some HP 974A meters, never out of tolerance (DC 0.05% basic accuracy - plus other error terms), same for my Fluke 87 and 85. Bench meters are even better, if one day you come across an HP 34401A, grab it.
You will own these for decades, and decades go by quickly. So do what you can as you can afford it. One thing for sure, if you don't buy top quality, you are not going to get it.
Please look into getting an analogue oscilloscope. 100 MHz dual trace scopes are not hard to find, and they are far superior to digital scopes costing 10x more. They just don't do some tricks, but what is the main use of the instrument? Concentrate on that.
I keep some nice analogue oscilloscopes. I have a $25K Keysight digital (MSOX3104T, one of the better ones in that price class). My old analogue oscilloscopes blow them all away for detail and noise. For a DVM, a used HP/Agilent/Keysight, or Fluke is far better than most other handheld meters you will find out there. I have some HP 974A meters, never out of tolerance (DC 0.05% basic accuracy - plus other error terms), same for my Fluke 87 and 85. Bench meters are even better, if one day you come across an HP 34401A, grab it.
You will own these for decades, and decades go by quickly. So do what you can as you can afford it. One thing for sure, if you don't buy top quality, you are not going to get it.