I'm thinking putting together a little system with a modded T-amp, but I'm new to the DIY Audio scene and I'm not sure what speaker construction makes the most sense for the t-amp. For simplicity's sake a full-range single driver system using something like the Fostex FE206E in a transmission line seems to make sense, but I read somewhere else on diyaudio that transmission lines aren't that efficient. When I'm starting with only 10 watts, efficieny has to be considered. Is there another speaker construction that a newbie like myself should be looking too? I'm in a furnture design program, so the contruction aspect isn't really of consequence, more the technical aspect.
ravon said:
The Tripath chips work without a loop around their output filters and do not like complex speaker loads even including basic 2 way designs. Any crossoverless design will sound better but the following can give amazing results.
I think either of the vendors 4” drivers below would be an excellent choice for a full range transmission line. 2 or 4 drivers per cabinet would be even better, smoothing out the response, increasing the power handling, lowering distortion and most important improving the efficiency. With no crossover this design is head and shoulders ahead of any other full range design including the very expensive single drivers. Of course for near field monitoring a single driver is fine and may be the only option due to size restrictions. Jordan’s may or may not be the best but they are a lot more expensive than the Bandor’s. They both use the same cone design which is the key to the extraordinary performance these drivers have. Their differences are in the motor and suspension structures. The bottom link should be all the info you need to build an exemplary transmission line.
Roger
http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/index.html
http://www.bandor.co.uk/home_frame.htm
http://www.quarter-wave.com/
The T-amp is probably more realistically 5W.
The Jordan may do the job for you, but is a fair bit less efficient than the Fostex FE167 or an FE207 (both work in a TL much better than their FExx6 counterparts). There are good solid designs for simple to build ML-TLs for both.
Moving from a Jordan to either of the Fostex would be like turning your T-amp into a 20 W amp from a 5W level-wise (approx).
Another speaker that should work well is the Visaton B200. It really prefers an open baffle, but should work fine in a (Big) ML-TL.
dave
The Jordan may do the job for you, but is a fair bit less efficient than the Fostex FE167 or an FE207 (both work in a TL much better than their FExx6 counterparts). There are good solid designs for simple to build ML-TLs for both.
Moving from a Jordan to either of the Fostex would be like turning your T-amp into a 20 W amp from a 5W level-wise (approx).
Another speaker that should work well is the Visaton B200. It really prefers an open baffle, but should work fine in a (Big) ML-TL.
dave
Speaker thread
Dave,
11 cats! A lot of work and money! Every one of them an individual with there own personality no doubt. Never any trouble finding a lap cat for those cold winter days I bet. I only have 4 but that is enough to be very interesting at times.
I jumped over to the speaker thread you posted a link for, interesting stuff. These are the kind of speakers the 41Hz and other Tripath based kits were made for. Multiple drivers with no crossovers a perfect match. I don’t know anything about any of these FR drivers except the Bandors which can be quite good but are extremely cabinet sensitive. I would expect the Jordan’s to be the same in this regard. I will have to check out some of the drivers mentioned when I find some time.
You owe it to yourself to try out a decent class D amp with these speakers as they excel at the very things you seem to be striving for.
Roger
Dave,
11 cats! A lot of work and money! Every one of them an individual with there own personality no doubt. Never any trouble finding a lap cat for those cold winter days I bet. I only have 4 but that is enough to be very interesting at times.
I jumped over to the speaker thread you posted a link for, interesting stuff. These are the kind of speakers the 41Hz and other Tripath based kits were made for. Multiple drivers with no crossovers a perfect match. I don’t know anything about any of these FR drivers except the Bandors which can be quite good but are extremely cabinet sensitive. I would expect the Jordan’s to be the same in this regard. I will have to check out some of the drivers mentioned when I find some time.
You owe it to yourself to try out a decent class D amp with these speakers as they excel at the very things you seem to be striving for.
Roger
Re: Speaker thread
🙂
I have a T-amp sitting on top of my monitor -- no time to rig it up yet.
dave
sx881663 said:
🙂
I have a T-amp sitting on top of my monitor -- no time to rig it up yet.
dave
10w speaker design?
i am getting the t-amp and i want to build 2 10w speakers using full range drivers. any suggestions for designs?
i am getting the t-amp and i want to build 2 10w speakers using full range drivers. any suggestions for designs?
No wonder Dave with all those cats to feed! 😀
(And if we hear that you are using Cat11 speaker cables, the animal protection people will be around to pay you a visit! 😀 )
Nuuk said:
Actually just switched from cryoed Cat 5/4 cable to homebrew copper ribbon cable (jensen foil inductor, packing tape, double-sided carpet tape + heatshrink)
dave
Re: Poor man's jordan?
They do go head to head with the Jordan, but give up 3 dB so given that i'm hesitant to recommend something as insensitive as the Jordan, i'd not even consider the CSS for this application
dave
rick57 said:
They do go head to head with the Jordan, but give up 3 dB so given that i'm hesitant to recommend something as insensitive as the Jordan, i'd not even consider the CSS for this application
dave
since the topic relates to the combination of speakers and t-amp, I would like to ask you, guys, how the sensitivity of the speakers improve the quality of sound (using t-amp)?
i've heard some romours, that sensitivity of the speaker may have a rather noticable possitive effect on the sound when using t-amp: bass responce improves, dinamics of the sound improves.
could anyone confirm the abovemention 'rumour'?
to my knowledge, the sensitivity of speakers affect ONLY the loudness of sound...
i've heard some romours, that sensitivity of the speaker may have a rather noticable possitive effect on the sound when using t-amp: bass responce improves, dinamics of the sound improves.
could anyone confirm the abovemention 'rumour'?
to my knowledge, the sensitivity of speakers affect ONLY the loudness of sound...
The problem here is that I can tell you that the class-T amps sound better with my open baffle speakers that have higher efficiency than my bass reflex IPL A2's. But is that down to the efficiency or the fact that they are a completely different design and use completely different drivers?
As a general rule, you can assume that any power amplifer, especially lower powered types, will work better into an 'easier' load. As Roger already stated, the little class-T amps really shine when they don't have a crossover to deal with.
Hi monomonster,
Oh, there are just so many full range projects you could build. It all depends on what you want, and the availability of drivers where you are.
You could do to narrow down your criteria a little.
Are you looking for small or large enclosures?
Do they need to be particularly sensitive (for low power amps)?
What is the size of the room they are going to be used in?
How much are you prepared to spend on parts?
Some FR drivers can be used in small enclosures, others may need some acoustic loading and you might want to use a subwoofer?
Give us more of an idea of your needs to narrow the selection down.
Oh, there are just so many full range projects you could build. It all depends on what you want, and the availability of drivers where you are.
You could do to narrow down your criteria a little.
Are you looking for small or large enclosures?
Do they need to be particularly sensitive (for low power amps)?
What is the size of the room they are going to be used in?
How much are you prepared to spend on parts?
Some FR drivers can be used in small enclosures, others may need some acoustic loading and you might want to use a subwoofer?
Give us more of an idea of your needs to narrow the selection down.
Would the fe127e reference project work good with the SI t-amp? Specifically the monopole recommended enclosure. The speaker height would put it at ear level and won't be any higher than my 17" monitor. Takes up a little more desk space but thats the price you pay I guess.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=526880&stamp=1102221644&
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=526880&stamp=1102221644&
Project speaker
For your near field application this should be quite nice but they will get in your way so much you will eventually want to try something else. Of course if you are a musician or do other serious work with music this would be a small sacrifice. I think this combination will startle you with how real it can sound. This assumes the FE127's are really as good as everyone says. I haven’t heard them myself. I would strongly advise leaving one panel of the enclosures screwed on and removable till you have them tuned to your liking. Use the recommendations as a starting point and experiment with different damping/stuffing materials and differing amounts. Only thing for sure is keep it well away from the back of the driver. If you had some testing means it would be a big help.
Roger
For your near field application this should be quite nice but they will get in your way so much you will eventually want to try something else. Of course if you are a musician or do other serious work with music this would be a small sacrifice. I think this combination will startle you with how real it can sound. This assumes the FE127's are really as good as everyone says. I haven’t heard them myself. I would strongly advise leaving one panel of the enclosures screwed on and removable till you have them tuned to your liking. Use the recommendations as a starting point and experiment with different damping/stuffing materials and differing amounts. Only thing for sure is keep it well away from the back of the driver. If you had some testing means it would be a big help.
Roger
well, I will be using the t-amp which has a clean output up to around 5.5w so I don't think speakers over 10w are a good idea and they should be VERY sensitive, like 92 93 I guess. the room is a small room and I would like bookshelf speakers if possible because I would like to use this configuration with my minidisc players on my workbench to listen to music 😀
I don't know about costs, but since the amp is $30 (I might upgrade it for another $50 or so) I will spare a few $$$ for speakers. I hope this helps out.
I don't know about costs, but since the amp is $30 (I might upgrade it for another $50 or so) I will spare a few $$$ for speakers. I hope this helps out.
How about this one on Vikash's lovely website: http://www.vikash.info/audio/W3-871S/
BTW: I used to work for the architects who designed the huge ugly hotel on the seafront of Haifa (though they did it a long time before I got there)!
BTW: I used to work for the architects who designed the huge ugly hotel on the seafront of Haifa (though they did it a long time before I got there)!
You should check out some Fostex based transmission line designs. The FE166E/FE167E based designs especially. They're pretty inexpensive, good to about 50hz and fairly easy to build. I think MJK might have a design for the FE167E if I remember correctly.
As for modding the T-Amp, all you really need to do is add some capacitance and improve the input to eliminate bass roll off. The cost of caps and resistors shouldn't be more than about $10.
As for modding the T-Amp, all you really need to do is add some capacitance and improve the input to eliminate bass roll off. The cost of caps and resistors shouldn't be more than about $10.
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