I apologize for the hostility, it must be a Northeast thing. I understand people selling PCB's for the diy crowd (I appreciate it, because I buy them) and maybe someone selling a piece to fund another project. Regardless of the seller's location or who is actually selling it; by buying a knock-off, your supporting/defending this behavior. Some people are scared of soldering irons and tools, and that's fine. But when an aleph clone or any other clone is selling for 850USD somewhere, and the build quality is suspect, its very clear that profits are being made. Spending the time learning, and building it yourself is so much more gratifying...
Gaara, Please understand people selling Nelson's work that is not authorized impacts all of us. Nelson has already pulled his schematics off his website following the rash of piracy in Taiwan and China.
I'm so very grateful to Nelson for mentoring so many of us and sharing his work with little financial compensation and increased exposure. Whenever people feel "entitled" to his work, it ruins it for the remainder of us.
Perhaps this is why the topic is so emotional, we all feel we have a vested interest in supporting Nelson.
- David
I'm so very grateful to Nelson for mentoring so many of us and sharing his work with little financial compensation and increased exposure. Whenever people feel "entitled" to his work, it ruins it for the remainder of us.
Perhaps this is why the topic is so emotional, we all feel we have a vested interest in supporting Nelson.
- David
MEGA-amp said:
I get that, and appreciate your opinion on the matter. Definitely makes sense, assuming the person is making a profit and not jest selling a piece to fund another project. Especially if the price is high but quality is low, it makes it all the worse.
As for the NE, were neighbors. I am from CT to right on the MA border by 6Flags. I worked in your area for a while, 84->91 is a mess during rush hour, always dreaded the commute home.
hifimaker said:
David,
I can understand that completly, like I said i just found it odd that it was implied that all the amps were actually Rawson in disguise. I guess I got defensive since my BPA200 was on the list, plus I have dealt with Jdubs a few times and can tell you he is a stand up guy.
I do see your point better now, how the actions of one can adversely affect the actions of many.
Thanks,
James
Legally it is up to Mr. Pass and his attoneys.
Morally it is up to ALL of us to ensure we support the icons of our community.
We do this by not doing projects for profit, and doing what we can to support the ones GIVING to us.
If WE avoid project for profit sellers there will be no market and no issues as we see here.
I don't know ANY DIY'er who would not be happy to assemble parts for a person not able to do so (physically, environmentally, etc.).
When I moved out of my house I had several friends let me use their place to build stuff or in most instances WANT to build them for me.
We are a community. We have to help and support each other or the community dies.
It is up to US to remove the project for profit market by proper morals.
Morally it is up to ALL of us to ensure we support the icons of our community.
We do this by not doing projects for profit, and doing what we can to support the ones GIVING to us.
If WE avoid project for profit sellers there will be no market and no issues as we see here.
I don't know ANY DIY'er who would not be happy to assemble parts for a person not able to do so (physically, environmentally, etc.).
When I moved out of my house I had several friends let me use their place to build stuff or in most instances WANT to build them for me.
We are a community. We have to help and support each other or the community dies.
It is up to US to remove the project for profit market by proper morals.
Gaara said:
Guys who make a profit out of projects intended for the DIY community damage Nelson Pass and Pass Labs primarily, the DIY community secondly.
If anyone overhere ever has the balls to do something like that, he'd receive a house call from a few scrap yard litigators, who bill a return favor IOU instead of a fee.
Just my thoughts.
This is DIYAudio forum, not Ralson, who has caused trouble.
Even though I subscribe to this out of interest to Pass products and PassDIY, I think the tone here has turned sour, and this thread should die.
I wish all well, but some of my most admired allies are talking too much smack. I suggest going to the OT high end thread and showing pictures of your past loves or outdoor cooking techniques.
More intereting, more friendly, more DIY.
This is DIYAudio forum, not Ralson, who has caused trouble.
Even though I subscribe to this out of interest to Pass products and PassDIY, I think the tone here has turned sour, and this thread should die.
I wish all well, but some of my most admired allies are talking too much smack. I suggest going to the OT high end thread and showing pictures of your past loves or outdoor cooking techniques.
More intereting, more friendly, more DIY.
So much excitement. Offhand it appears that Tim may feel
discouraged by all this anyway, and I do think that developing
his own brand would serve him better.
😎
discouraged by all this anyway, and I do think that developing
his own brand would serve him better.
😎
mithomas said:
Mithomas,
you still need to develop a twisted sense of humor.
My ex-gardner and close friend is a 400lbs "tax" collector for the local "construction material industry" and goodfella of the scrap yard gipsy family in his place.
Sure i'd send him and an ever grosser looking collegue over, but just for laughs and dramatics.
Surely you dont expect someone to break legs over some schematics, in the last couple of years i've paid some $45K on legal fees for a bunch of civil law suits.
pass "clones" etc
Mr. Pass and other interested parties,
Since I have spent most of my working life as a writer and photographer, I understand intellectual property.
However, even as we speak I am listening to a ludicrously cheap copy (clone) of a B1 buffer preamp. I bought it to get some vague idea of how it would work with my system, having grown tired of tube noise...and not much at that (ARC LS 7).
All the copy has done is convince me I need to buy a "real" B1, and maybe a First Watt amp, also.
Point being, I don't think the guy I bought this from is actually making any money on his copies, but certainly in my case he convinced me the real deal must be a wonderful piece of kit.
FWIW, the circuit board in the copy bears little or no resemblance to the one in the pictures of the B1, and the copy looks exactly like what it is. This is no Japanese Rolex knockoff here.
I live in an audio wasteland, the only way I can actually listen to a real B1 is to drive two or three days, and then it won't be in my system, will it?
So, from a pure marketing point of view, the clone (which is just fashionable word for copy) is, without question, going to help Mr. Pass sell at least one preamp.
Just my opinion and rendered as such.
Mr. Pass and other interested parties,
Since I have spent most of my working life as a writer and photographer, I understand intellectual property.
However, even as we speak I am listening to a ludicrously cheap copy (clone) of a B1 buffer preamp. I bought it to get some vague idea of how it would work with my system, having grown tired of tube noise...and not much at that (ARC LS 7).
All the copy has done is convince me I need to buy a "real" B1, and maybe a First Watt amp, also.
Point being, I don't think the guy I bought this from is actually making any money on his copies, but certainly in my case he convinced me the real deal must be a wonderful piece of kit.
FWIW, the circuit board in the copy bears little or no resemblance to the one in the pictures of the B1, and the copy looks exactly like what it is. This is no Japanese Rolex knockoff here.
I live in an audio wasteland, the only way I can actually listen to a real B1 is to drive two or three days, and then it won't be in my system, will it?
So, from a pure marketing point of view, the clone (which is just fashionable word for copy) is, without question, going to help Mr. Pass sell at least one preamp.
Just my opinion and rendered as such.
b1 board
Yessir, I am aware of that, however I would really rather have the whole thing new.
I can follow a wiring diagram, but I am not really a DIY guy anymore, puts too much strain on my eyes which I need to keep working as long as possible. Although I did cobble together a passive preamp, which did not work well in my system....long interconnects, which led me to reading about the B1.
One thing the passive did do was give me a hint about how much noise and other artifacts my ARC linestage was adding to the music.
And, as soon as somebody pays me, I will call the nice folks in Arizona, unless you have a new dealer somewhere closer to Chattanooga (Atlanta?).
For what it is worth, I once had a spirited "discussion" with a painter who had used one of my pictures to paint a portrait which he then sold for a significant amount of money.
His attitude was that he only used my picture as "research"; our discussion is ongoing.
Point being, I do understand your concerns, and as a result, will not sell it on Audiogon. (Which I would not have done, in any case, even though it is only "research"
Louie
-30-
Yessir, I am aware of that, however I would really rather have the whole thing new.
I can follow a wiring diagram, but I am not really a DIY guy anymore, puts too much strain on my eyes which I need to keep working as long as possible. Although I did cobble together a passive preamp, which did not work well in my system....long interconnects, which led me to reading about the B1.
One thing the passive did do was give me a hint about how much noise and other artifacts my ARC linestage was adding to the music.
And, as soon as somebody pays me, I will call the nice folks in Arizona, unless you have a new dealer somewhere closer to Chattanooga (Atlanta?).
For what it is worth, I once had a spirited "discussion" with a painter who had used one of my pictures to paint a portrait which he then sold for a significant amount of money.
His attitude was that he only used my picture as "research"; our discussion is ongoing.
Point being, I do understand your concerns, and as a result, will not sell it on Audiogon. (Which I would not have done, in any case, even though it is only "research"
Louie
-30-
I always thought the same thing...all these Gainclones....until one day I looked at the Nat Semi data sheet and saw that same schematic.
This is why they are assembled in such a way that one must damn near destroy the Gaincard Amp to open one up...
You don't have to use the App notes for the chip amps. There's
plenty of room for the imaginative DIYer. One of my favorites
here is "6 Easy Pieces" and "GC SuperSymmetry".
😎
plenty of room for the imaginative DIYer. One of my favorites
here is "6 Easy Pieces" and "GC SuperSymmetry".
😎
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