Klampy,
All that phase stuff and tweeters and waveguides stuff was lost on me. They have a point about buying commercial monitors though. If this is your business, spending a couple hundred here seems like the thing to do.
btw, I posted some sound clips of the Cornu mini on post 720 of the foam core thread.
Xrk971
All that phase stuff and tweeters and waveguides stuff was lost on me. They have a point about buying commercial monitors though. If this is your business, spending a couple hundred here seems like the thing to do.
btw, I posted some sound clips of the Cornu mini on post 720 of the foam core thread.
Xrk971
This is what I currently have as my desk top monitor..
Small satellite loudspeaker system (3)
These are very good, and have the sometimes unfortunate tendency to let you actually hear the signal you are putting in, this is what monitors are supposed to do but many people don't actually like hearing that.
This is the sort of thing you should look at, but it is a very difficult diy project.
rcw.
Small satellite loudspeaker system (3)
These are very good, and have the sometimes unfortunate tendency to let you actually hear the signal you are putting in, this is what monitors are supposed to do but many people don't actually like hearing that.
This is the sort of thing you should look at, but it is a very difficult diy project.
rcw.
That stuff I was going on about was only relevant to a specific driver and crossover combination suggested, and not relevant to your situation at all, except in that basic elements of speaker design were mentioned. Basically a brief threadjack, sorry.
If you want flat nearfield monitors, you won't have any trouble finding designs for those. If you want response similar to your PA setup, you'll need to know what that response is, and/or see if you can get flatter response from your PA. You also might want to consider headphones. For dance music (electronic, I'm guessing?), a good pair of studio-oriented headphones might be the easiest way to get something workable. I mean, that setup with two pairs of speakers on a glass desk doesn't look like it should be hard to improve upon, accuracy-wise.
If you want flat nearfield monitors, you won't have any trouble finding designs for those. If you want response similar to your PA setup, you'll need to know what that response is, and/or see if you can get flatter response from your PA. You also might want to consider headphones. For dance music (electronic, I'm guessing?), a good pair of studio-oriented headphones might be the easiest way to get something workable. I mean, that setup with two pairs of speakers on a glass desk doesn't look like it should be hard to improve upon, accuracy-wise.
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i posted the response in my first post.
so incase it was missed, the grey line on the graph is the response of one of my subs. the black line is the horn i drew up on HR using a Jaycar driver.
so incase it was missed, the grey line on the graph is the response of one of my subs. the black line is the horn i drew up on HR using a Jaycar driver.
I'm talking about the response of the main speakers. Have you just been talking about bass response this whole time?
yes^ top end, i can work out later. i have numerous different drivers i can try out for top duties.
bass is the primary function of dance music. i need to get it to a point where its not overpowering in the recording, but also not too little, and it needs to be in the right frequency band.
so based on this, one of my original Q's was if ive drawn up one horn, for one driver, and i slip a second driver into the same horn,is there a way i can simulate this?
so based on this, one of my original Q's was if ive drawn up one horn, for one driver, and i slip a second driver into the same horn,is there a way i can simulate this?
thinking about running one 8inch driver in mono, and applying a LPF with a pair of whatever tops i deem suitable to match on the equivalent HPF.
Haha, okay in that case, I think you can pretty much ignore everything posted so far, because I don't think anyone realized you were just talking about bass. I'd start with more capable non-mini large-driver subs, sealed ones should be fine, EQ out the deep stuff your PA setup isn't doing, and tweak the level and low-pass point until it the bass balance is similar to your PA. Maybe a bunch of people will say "no way, you can't make a sealed sub sound like a big horn-loaded one", but I say for your purposes, just getting the relative levels similar will do the trick.
I have this speakers set up with the subwoofer described in the article and using the various software equalisers and signals this set up can emulate just about any loudspeaker system, except that it has low distortion and a lot of p.a. type systems have considerable amounts of it.
rcw
rcw
Based on this response i think ill still aim at drawing up the horn i simmed in HR that began this thread. Reason i say that is because i feel that EQing a set response out of a sealed cab will end up sounding like that. Ive tried producing on a system with a dedicated sealed sub. I ended up moving over to a ported sub which was better but still not "right".
What i think im aiming for is to have the driver doing "bass" also doing mid bass/audible bass frequencies which i think would be equivalent to having my 12inch Deltas on/infront of my bass horns on the PA. And im definately thinking that a doublestack of the polystyrene smith horn loaded with my little 2.5drivers on top will be good too.
I want to keep the bass driver in this setup relatively small. The bigger i go the further the bass thump will travel. I feel having at least one 8inch hornsub is still pushing the limits and i wanted two for stereo but may have to settle on one yet due to the horn size.
I will one day buy some proper powered monitors but only if i cant design my own sound first. For what i do i think custom is going to be "it" not because it has to be but because i want it to be.
Everybody that asks the question of whats "best" is subjective to the listener. I know what i want, just not 100% on how to get it.
Just to add one thing. If anyone wants to hear what im referring to regarding the transfer of different speakers into my music just check out my soundcloud link vvv
In the end I can say no more because I am not sure what you are trying to do, and am not certain that you are.
rcw
rcw
my current speakers have a very tainted response. they are very bass heavy, lacking in the mids, and very sparkly. they are Hifi speakers and are no good. (imo)
i love the sound of a bass horn when pumped up. it seems effortless in its sound, and has a certain tonal quality due to the folds i think?
i know im not going to be able to just "scale down" my subs and have it work. coz it doesnt work like that. but rather than have a speaker that can do down to 20hz and play with that frequency on FruityLoops, id rather a woofer that responds in the same band as the speakers that will be playing it later on. hence my design on HR.
without hearing a "flat" system first, and i have nothing available to me to try, im not sure i want to go back to a system that i know has already failed my expectations.
maybe youre right and i dont know what i actually want... and i cant help you to help me if i dont know what im helping towards.
i love the sound of a bass horn when pumped up. it seems effortless in its sound, and has a certain tonal quality due to the folds i think?
i know im not going to be able to just "scale down" my subs and have it work. coz it doesnt work like that. but rather than have a speaker that can do down to 20hz and play with that frequency on FruityLoops, id rather a woofer that responds in the same band as the speakers that will be playing it later on. hence my design on HR.
without hearing a "flat" system first, and i have nothing available to me to try, im not sure i want to go back to a system that i know has already failed my expectations.
maybe youre right and i dont know what i actually want... and i cant help you to help me if i dont know what im helping towards.
Firstly, I think you're on the right track using a small driver so as not to bother the neighbors.
Secondly, I think a wide range sub with proper EQ can match your SS-15s, but you need to measure the SS-15s.
There's going to be a whole lot of resonances going on, and that is what's giving the SS-15s their character. You need to duplicate those, especially for the kick drum hits. Those are basically impulse signals that excite the resonances in the horns and in the room, and any monitoring system that doesn't respond in kind is going to give you fits (ah, but you know that, eh?).
In other words, I know that using horn monitors seems like the answer, but the resonances of the big horns aren't going to scale down properly; they'll shift in frequency. Simulating the SS-15s with EQ is a better approach. IMO.
Also, horns are likely going to bug your neighbors faster as they have more "throw". The more omnidirectional nature of closed subs will disperse better and not carry as far.
Anyway, really like your tunes. Must be great stuff in a club.
Secondly, I think a wide range sub with proper EQ can match your SS-15s, but you need to measure the SS-15s.
There's going to be a whole lot of resonances going on, and that is what's giving the SS-15s their character. You need to duplicate those, especially for the kick drum hits. Those are basically impulse signals that excite the resonances in the horns and in the room, and any monitoring system that doesn't respond in kind is going to give you fits (ah, but you know that, eh?).
In other words, I know that using horn monitors seems like the answer, but the resonances of the big horns aren't going to scale down properly; they'll shift in frequency. Simulating the SS-15s with EQ is a better approach. IMO.
Also, horns are likely going to bug your neighbors faster as they have more "throw". The more omnidirectional nature of closed subs will disperse better and not carry as far.
Anyway, really like your tunes. Must be great stuff in a club.
There are systems used by recording studios that use d.s.p. to emulate the boom box, computer speaker type systems that they are doing a mix for.
These are played through a flat near field monitor subwoofer set up, and the d.s.p. is programed to pre condition the signal with the frequency response and distortion characteristics of the simulated system, this seems to be something like what you are after.
As already observed using your proposed set up will give you a set of distortions and frequency response anomalies that are characteristic of it, and not of your full sized system.
You are better off measuring the full sized system and then emulating this as far as possible in software, and playing it back over a flat monitoring system.
rcw
These are played through a flat near field monitor subwoofer set up, and the d.s.p. is programed to pre condition the signal with the frequency response and distortion characteristics of the simulated system, this seems to be something like what you are after.
As already observed using your proposed set up will give you a set of distortions and frequency response anomalies that are characteristic of it, and not of your full sized system.
You are better off measuring the full sized system and then emulating this as far as possible in software, and playing it back over a flat monitoring system.
rcw
as far as checking the response of my big system, ill get the opportunity to get a rough measurement this coming weekend. i have a "very" basic SPL meter on my phone. and i can run a single frequency wave tone through it. ill measure beyond what hornresp simulates (disregarding my trust for it) and go from there.
Here's something I've posted in two of your other threads regarding the setup of your PA. Even though it turned out that you weren't running a crossover (which is a huge issue) and added one, these comments still apply:
It shouldn't be hard to match your PA if it has somewhat normal response characteristics.........
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