There have been a lot of replies! 
I must say, wrenchone is correct in the warning for methanol. While you hear tens of warnings about solvent flammability, there aren't many about the safety of the fumes themselves.
Around 50,000 people died in the US during prohibition when they bought denatured alcohol from their chemist and drank it. Denatured alcohol only contains a very small amount of methanol to make it tax void, as it's not safe to drink. I believe ~8 people here in the UK died recently after drinking Vodka from Russia that contained methanol.
If you're using 90%+ methanol, the fumes may be quite bad for you in the long term. One of the first problems they cause is poor vision, which can rapidly move to blindness.
I'm sure most of you know this already, but just in case you don't, and you're about to start using methanol, please be careful with it. You don't need any extreme protection, just use it by an open window and try not to breath it in.
As to a final answer... I kind of like Pinkmouse's shower suggestion! I think I will avoid any stronger solvents purely because I don't have time to test every single component for it's long term compatibility, or to have the solvent wash all the markings off a board.
I think I'll try some of Multicore's Safewash. I'd like to be able to dunk boards and have the flux run off, rather than have to mechanically remove it. I'll see how it goes. I guess they probably specifically designed the Safewash to work with their own fluxes.
I must say, wrenchone is correct in the warning for methanol. While you hear tens of warnings about solvent flammability, there aren't many about the safety of the fumes themselves.
Around 50,000 people died in the US during prohibition when they bought denatured alcohol from their chemist and drank it. Denatured alcohol only contains a very small amount of methanol to make it tax void, as it's not safe to drink. I believe ~8 people here in the UK died recently after drinking Vodka from Russia that contained methanol.
If you're using 90%+ methanol, the fumes may be quite bad for you in the long term. One of the first problems they cause is poor vision, which can rapidly move to blindness.
I'm sure most of you know this already, but just in case you don't, and you're about to start using methanol, please be careful with it. You don't need any extreme protection, just use it by an open window and try not to breath it in.
As to a final answer... I kind of like Pinkmouse's shower suggestion! I think I will avoid any stronger solvents purely because I don't have time to test every single component for it's long term compatibility, or to have the solvent wash all the markings off a board.
I think I'll try some of Multicore's Safewash. I'd like to be able to dunk boards and have the flux run off, rather than have to mechanically remove it. I'll see how it goes. I guess they probably specifically designed the Safewash to work with their own fluxes.
Yes, I miss CFCs- they had very few downsides, low toxicity and inflammability, effective cleaning.
As regards organic solvents like acetone, methanol, MEK, and the like, ABSOLUTELY use a vented area. If you can get a solvent mask, use one. Be VERY cautious about fire- the fumes from these solvents can be explosive, so you don't want flames, pilot lights, or spark sources (like motors or power tools) anywhere nearby.
As regards organic solvents like acetone, methanol, MEK, and the like, ABSOLUTELY use a vented area. If you can get a solvent mask, use one. Be VERY cautious about fire- the fumes from these solvents can be explosive, so you don't want flames, pilot lights, or spark sources (like motors or power tools) anywhere nearby.
Indeed, I only did this for the picture. As my camera is not that sensitive I though it would be OK. I forgot your sensitive eyes might be in the neighborhood.cocolino said:
I am basically a TV/Video/… consumer repair man. Looking at some PCB’s in some TV’s or video decks, I sometimes wonder how they still play. Other people in the same business will confirm this. It’s hopeless to clean those boards for various reasons. Cost is one of them. Only in production processes and DIY it must/can be done. I can not think of one technician who cleans consumer board after repair. Maybe() some will do it in the high-end sector although I doubt it. So when do I clean boards? Dirt is sometimes a nice conductor in the high voltage area of the CRT PCB. A good cleanup followed by a non conductive spray can sometimes solve the problem.
eeka chu said:
That's a good warning. Now I know why my one eye is worse than my left.
/Hugo
Multicore
The bits and pieces arrived from RS this morning.
I've just been trying out the Multicore solder I ordered and it seems to be very promising!
I am using 96SC, which, I believe, is Multicore's way of aligning with enviromentally friendly soldering.
It's a Tin / Copper / Silver mix with 3.8% Silver. The flux is colophony free, colophony is the yellow coloured residue left behind when you're finished soldering with resin based flux.
I'm not sure if the flux in the 96SC is synthetic, or organically based. But, whatever it is, it doesn't spatter. With my eyes a foot away from the board, I can't see any at the moment.
The join starts off bright silver coloured. When you remove the heat, the surface cools and goes a dull grey colour. This may just be a slight covering of flux, or the surface may be oxidising. I've given a few joins a wipe with some surgical spirit and they shine a bit more, a good clean might get them nice and shiney again. Although, according Van Den Hul, painting enamel over joins helps prevent them ever becoming oxidised internally. So who cares if it's shiney or not right?
The solder flows really well, in fact, I actually prefer it to the standard Tin / Lead mix. When I heated a turret and soldered with a Tin / Lead mix, I would find the solder would run out of the turret's groove and try to follow a path to the heat source. The 96SC seems much better at staying in the groove, where you want it.
The only problem with it so far is the smell of the flux. Whatever the flux is, it smells horrible, a lot like melting, or burning, plastic. I'd recommend you have a desk fan to hand if you buy the solder.
I figured some of you might be interested in this as this thread is all about flux and this particular solder seems particularly good at not spatter the board with it!
The bits and pieces arrived from RS this morning.
I've just been trying out the Multicore solder I ordered and it seems to be very promising!
I am using 96SC, which, I believe, is Multicore's way of aligning with enviromentally friendly soldering.
It's a Tin / Copper / Silver mix with 3.8% Silver. The flux is colophony free, colophony is the yellow coloured residue left behind when you're finished soldering with resin based flux.
I'm not sure if the flux in the 96SC is synthetic, or organically based. But, whatever it is, it doesn't spatter. With my eyes a foot away from the board, I can't see any at the moment.
The join starts off bright silver coloured. When you remove the heat, the surface cools and goes a dull grey colour. This may just be a slight covering of flux, or the surface may be oxidising. I've given a few joins a wipe with some surgical spirit and they shine a bit more, a good clean might get them nice and shiney again. Although, according Van Den Hul, painting enamel over joins helps prevent them ever becoming oxidised internally. So who cares if it's shiney or not right?
The solder flows really well, in fact, I actually prefer it to the standard Tin / Lead mix. When I heated a turret and soldered with a Tin / Lead mix, I would find the solder would run out of the turret's groove and try to follow a path to the heat source. The 96SC seems much better at staying in the groove, where you want it.
The only problem with it so far is the smell of the flux. Whatever the flux is, it smells horrible, a lot like melting, or burning, plastic. I'd recommend you have a desk fan to hand if you buy the solder.
I figured some of you might be interested in this as this thread is all about flux and this particular solder seems particularly good at not spatter the board with it!
eeka chu,
Thanks for the input; I will have to try this solder.
Silver solder is it really worth it. I have been working in electronic for over 20 years and have never used silver solder. I built ultra high-speed equipment and ultra low noise stuff and we never used silver solder. So I have always figured it was more audio hype, So has anyone really a real technical comparison?
Thanks for the input; I will have to try this solder.
Silver solder is it really worth it. I have been working in electronic for over 20 years and have never used silver solder. I built ultra high-speed equipment and ultra low noise stuff and we never used silver solder. So I have always figured it was more audio hype, So has anyone really a real technical comparison?
I believe FDE groove, Frank, finds Silver solder really useful. He mentioned it being helpful with finding problems within circuits. You should get in contact with him and see what he likes about it. He is usually on the tube forum.
I've been soldering with the 96SC practically all afternoon, in fact... I'm starting to get really annoyed picking the iron up! I think I'll call it a day in a few hours. I bought the wrong sized wire and so now I'm wiring a board with 1.5mm enamelled wire! It's almost the same size as most of the turrets on the board it's self! Good job this is only the prototype. I need to sort something A LOT neater out for the end version, this thing has solder wired joints exposed at 400V+! I'll be standing back when I switch it on, have no fear!
I've noticed a small amount of spattering from the solder, but no where near as much as the usual resin flux. Also, most of it seems to stick to the board, and not so much of the components, so it can easily be dunked to just below the component's themselves.
I think the Ecosol flux only spatters when it's fed into the joint a bit too quickly. It seemed strange that it only ever spattered at a particular time, and I think it's when I've fed it into a join very quickly - sometimes time is of the essence right!? Like when you really want a cup of coffee!
Since it's a lead free solder, and it has quite a lot of copper in it, it's quite strong stuff compared to Tin / Lead mixes.
While the flux fumes themselves smell horrible, the after effect actually smells quite good!!!
I've been soldering with the 96SC practically all afternoon, in fact... I'm starting to get really annoyed picking the iron up! I think I'll call it a day in a few hours. I bought the wrong sized wire and so now I'm wiring a board with 1.5mm enamelled wire!
It's almost the same size as most of the turrets on the board it's self! Good job this is only the prototype. I need to sort something A LOT neater out for the end version, this thing has solder wired joints exposed at 400V+! I'll be standing back when I switch it on, have no fear! I've noticed a small amount of spattering from the solder, but no where near as much as the usual resin flux. Also, most of it seems to stick to the board, and not so much of the components, so it can easily be dunked to just below the component's themselves.
I think the Ecosol flux only spatters when it's fed into the joint a bit too quickly. It seemed strange that it only ever spattered at a particular time, and I think it's when I've fed it into a join very quickly - sometimes time is of the essence right!? Like when you really want a cup of coffee!
Since it's a lead free solder, and it has quite a lot of copper in it, it's quite strong stuff compared to Tin / Lead mixes.
While the flux fumes themselves smell horrible, the after effect actually smells quite good!!!
"The join starts off bright silver coloured. When you remove the heat, the surface cools and goes a dull grey colour. "
Kester's low temp solder behaves this way as well. A little disconcerting if you are used to associated the dull grey with cold joints, but actually it has the benefit that you have an unambiguous visual indicator of when it has set.
Kester's low temp solder behaves this way as well. A little disconcerting if you are used to associated the dull grey with cold joints, but actually it has the benefit that you have an unambiguous visual indicator of when it has set.
I agree, but I'm getting kind of used to it already. Rather than watching to surface texture anymore, these last few months I've started to watch for fluidity and tension while the solder is flowing. If I don't see the liquid's tension brake over onto whatever I'm soldering, it isn't hot enough.
I'm STILL waiting on my Hakko station! I'm looking forward to being able to set the temperature and have 70 watts of it to work with!
A video of a solder station? Sure thing!!!
Click here to see my incredible solder station. I'm excited! [This must be a new low I think
]
Spray Easy option
For those in the U.K., Maplin sell an aerosol spray under their own brand called 'P.C.B Cleaner' and one by Servisol called 'P.C.B Flux Remover':
http://servisol.co.uk/data/DEFLUX_data.htm
which is slightly more expensive.
I use the Servisol one which works fine, leaving only the white residue reported earlier, in certain places.
For those in the U.K., Maplin sell an aerosol spray under their own brand called 'P.C.B Cleaner' and one by Servisol called 'P.C.B Flux Remover':
http://servisol.co.uk/data/DEFLUX_data.htm
which is slightly more expensive.
I use the Servisol one which works fine, leaving only the white residue reported earlier, in certain places.
There's my name can be applied
As a Destroyer, the one that destroy, i completely dissolve some boards since started 40 years ago.... not always unused boards.
But, the way i use is violent.... i put under soap and hot watter... i use brush hard, and in near past used alcohol, medicine use alcohol...but, now a days, water is mixed with this alcohol because a lot of accidents with childreen burning themselves and one stupid rich boy that put alcohol and fire into a big indian Chief that was trying to meet our President...he, as a indian normally does, sleep everywhere..... over the grass as our nigth temperature around 22 degrees centigrades minimum.
They change to gel alcohol, people hate an bougth alcohol in Gasoline stations because whe use hidrated alcohol to move our automobiles normally. Cars here are electronic controlled to gazoline, alcohol, mixed alcohol and gazoline and near future will work with natural gaz too.
This way, alcohol do not clean anymore....really... so i use thinner fast and very good, and fast deep into watter to cut effect and soap and brush.
I am a clean maniac...love to clean equipment..... put in the bathroom and send hot pressure watter on it.... thats great destroyng thing (Ugaaaah!, me baaaad!)
Carlos
As a Destroyer, the one that destroy, i completely dissolve some boards since started 40 years ago.... not always unused boards.
But, the way i use is violent.... i put under soap and hot watter... i use brush hard, and in near past used alcohol, medicine use alcohol...but, now a days, water is mixed with this alcohol because a lot of accidents with childreen burning themselves and one stupid rich boy that put alcohol and fire into a big indian Chief that was trying to meet our President...he, as a indian normally does, sleep everywhere..... over the grass as our nigth temperature around 22 degrees centigrades minimum.
They change to gel alcohol, people hate an bougth alcohol in Gasoline stations because whe use hidrated alcohol to move our automobiles normally. Cars here are electronic controlled to gazoline, alcohol, mixed alcohol and gazoline and near future will work with natural gaz too.
This way, alcohol do not clean anymore....really... so i use thinner fast and very good, and fast deep into watter to cut effect and soap and brush.
I am a clean maniac...love to clean equipment..... put in the bathroom and send hot pressure watter on it.... thats great destroyng thing (Ugaaaah!, me baaaad!)
Carlos
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.