Can't you go digital out on the DCX into DAC's? I have no DCX myself, only the DEQ, I know that one can do digital out to a DAC.
A simple search would have told me that answer, no it hasn't. But it has been modded to work like that: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/36252-dcx2496-mod-digital-out-x-3-a.html
Yes, only DEQ has digi out. Regarding the mod, it was created in pre-miniDSP era. Now we have fully digital nanoDigi or Najda for less than stock DCX.
It got me thinking again. Standard USB drivers force the receiver to accept master clock from the PC if I'm correct. So if I only wanted to use 24/96 it should be possible to run two different DACs in slave mode and this would keep them in synch (again if I'm correct). In this scenario Jriver would need to ensure that it outputs the signal to two separate soundcards (DACs) at the same time regardless of the fact the each channel may have very different DSP settings. Is it possible?
baMarek, you can do whatever you want with Jriver DSP, but you can't run 2 output devices simultaneously!
You may use a AES or ADAT PCI interface and then route digital signal from this single output device to several DACs, but you can't do anything good with 2 different output devices (2 USB DACs), no way!
I solved this problem buying a wonderful and future proof dac/interface connected via Ethernet. It's a Merging Hapi, great dac section and incredible routing possibilities via Ravenna.
You may use a AES or ADAT PCI interface and then route digital signal from this single output device to several DACs, but you can't do anything good with 2 different output devices (2 USB DACs), no way!
I solved this problem buying a wonderful and future proof dac/interface connected via Ethernet. It's a Merging Hapi, great dac section and incredible routing possibilities via Ravenna.
Unlucky or didn't know how to properly test the setup.
I'm not sure you're appreciating what a "software-based crossover" is. The nanoDIGI is a software-based crossover...so is the Najda...so is your DCX2496 for that matter. 🙂 The software doesn't run on a Windows/Mac platform, but it's software-based nonetheless.
The premise of your original query is somewhat misunderstood. There are plenty of different configurations and you can achieve a good (or bad) result in a variety of ways. There isn't any inherent advantage in using a traditional computer as your platform....other than (maybe) superior horsepower to implement FIR filters or extensive EQ or etc, etc.
Cheers,
Dave.
We could argue about semantics and what software on a hard drive vs software on EEPROM is but let's not go there 🙂. My initial question was about having a media center with a player (or a plugin to a player) act as a crossover which sends the digital signal to two different DACs. Based on the answers so far this is still only my dream solution, although I would really like it to work and avoid any extra active crossovers in the path.
Taking the road more traveled I could add an extra hardware with software in it 🙂 like nanoDIGI or Najda to send the signal in digital domain to two separate DACs. It may be tricky but I would expect this to work even if there is a different delay in each channel. This can be measured and adjusted. The question is if the delay can be significantly different on each DAC when the resolution of the signal changes. I don't know 🙁
Here is an article suggesting that different DACs can be happy together when connected to nanoDIGI: https://translate.google.ca/transla...om/hifi/minidsp-nano-digi-2x8_7284&edit-text=
As I mentioned above, if you have different DAC's (especially one's with ASRC's) then you might have a relative delay issue. You'd have to measure to characterize.
Dave.
Dave.
When I used two USB DAC to measure there were all sorts of problems. Basically it was unusable. Tons of phase issues.
It would be interesting, via ASIO4All or something, to talk to more than one DAC from JRiver. Failing that, a multichannel DAC would be the way to go. Maybe digging thru the JRiver forum would point the way?
Further question. Would a two way stereo crossover be enough? Low bass and EQ the subs, do whatever HP+EQ for the ESL? Tweeter cut in passively if needed? I done that with good success using an M-Audio 4 output card.
It would be interesting, via ASIO4All or something, to talk to more than one DAC from JRiver. Failing that, a multichannel DAC would be the way to go. Maybe digging thru the JRiver forum would point the way?
Further question. Would a two way stereo crossover be enough? Low bass and EQ the subs, do whatever HP+EQ for the ESL? Tweeter cut in passively if needed? I done that with good success using an M-Audio 4 output card.
I think 2-way will be good enough. The trebles in ESL57 could roll off higher but they are good in their range and I'm not desperate to change anything there. The new subwoofers and cut off at 200Hz made such a great difference that I'll be happy as two pigs in sh#t if I make it work with JRiver. I posted on their forum and will update you on their comments.
Cool. Then I'd say have a look at the Focusrite Saphire USB cards. Very clean stuff, not too $$
Of course with those speakers and a good amp, you'll hear everything. Good choices can be critical.
There is a thread going about using soundcards for measurements. There are some very impressive results in that thread. You might take a look at what they are using.
Of course with those speakers and a good amp, you'll hear everything. Good choices can be critical.
There is a thread going about using soundcards for measurements. There are some very impressive results in that thread. You might take a look at what they are using.
Maybe my post here is interesting for you
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...peaker-unification-thread-34.html#post4394658
Regards
Guenter
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...peaker-unification-thread-34.html#post4394658
Regards
Guenter
I have ESL63's in germany and ESL57's back in the UK in storage. I think the ESL57's are very similar to the ESL63's in that they have great but limited bass extention and volume. The ESL57's are better if you sit exactly in the sweet spot but ESL63's are better at being less directive, play louder, but are more similar than they are different.
I have a subwoofer crossed over at 24dB an octave, at aproximately 100-110 Hz to 2 sealed Peerless 830668 10" Paper Cone SLS Subwoofers.
In my opinion a 24 dB per octave cross over is the minimum you want as ESL's do sound so much more "real" than moving coil speakers. That said you do miss the Bass you can get with moving coil, and the extra head room of not having the Bass on the ESL gives them so much more headroom, and makes the bass shakes from You tube etc not make you fear for your presious ESL speakers.
I like the sound, and think I have a great compromise, but would ideally like to switch between 3 modes, full range ESL, 100Hz cross over, and 200Hz cross over. This switch would be so I can switch for best sound for acoustic music, best loud bass, and video when I want bangs and don't care for sound quality as much.
Just some food for thought.
I have a subwoofer crossed over at 24dB an octave, at aproximately 100-110 Hz to 2 sealed Peerless 830668 10" Paper Cone SLS Subwoofers.
In my opinion a 24 dB per octave cross over is the minimum you want as ESL's do sound so much more "real" than moving coil speakers. That said you do miss the Bass you can get with moving coil, and the extra head room of not having the Bass on the ESL gives them so much more headroom, and makes the bass shakes from You tube etc not make you fear for your presious ESL speakers.
I like the sound, and think I have a great compromise, but would ideally like to switch between 3 modes, full range ESL, 100Hz cross over, and 200Hz cross over. This switch would be so I can switch for best sound for acoustic music, best loud bass, and video when I want bangs and don't care for sound quality as much.
Just some food for thought.
Yes Guenter, this is very similar project. I think we both had a vision about removing unnecessary parts of the setup and take the whole DSP correction to a new level. It would be great to know your thoughts on this setup after having run it for a while (in English lol).
In Jriver you could have 3 zones with 3 different crossover points and you could even set it up so that for example all MP3s use 200Hz point and all classical flacs go full range. That is obviously if you were using software DSP.
With regards to my ESL57 I honestly liked 200Hz xover point much more for any type of music. But only with dipole subs driven by my class D when I could not hear the boxy effect. Even in performances like Friday Night in San Francisco you can hear their kicks in the floor and presence of the crowd more distinctively when the bass was going lower and was cut at 200Hz.
Just to give you guys an update on my progress (or lack of it). I asked on JRiver forum where people suggested using 2+2 DAC to output SPDIF signal from one DAC to another, then emailed people who know a lot about ESS chips who told me the clocks have to be super fast in the source DAC to make it work with ES9018. So I decided to go for an expensive but future-proof concept - an 8-channel ES9018 DAC. I am building a tube output stage for my 8 channels. Yes folks, it will be a monster 🙂
I totally abandoned the idea of SPDIF and will only use USB (via USBstreamer). Not that I don't like SPDIF but it would cost a lot more. Wish there was an affordable multichannel HDMI to I2S converter.
I'm currently getting more familiar with JRiver and installed it on my latest buy, a miniPC called Minix Z64W. I'm really impressed with how well this little thing sounds. I'm not sure if it has enough juice for a 4 way DSP with hi-res files but in stereo it works flawlessly.
So if the whole build succeeds I should be able to use Jriver to send music via USB to a monster 8 channel DAC with tube output stage and use DSP based Xover with rePhase or Bodzio software to have FIR filters for up to 2x4way speakers. Alternatively it can be used as a DAC for Blu-ray processor/computer.
That's the plan at least. I started my tube stage and in the process I managed to kill one DAC in my DCX that I used for testing. No idea why it outputs 1/6 of the default voltage now. Oh well, DIY is cheaper right? ;-)
The big question I have is whether my DAC should get even bigger by getting extra 4 class D amps. It would make sense from purity perspective and I managed to get fantastic sound from TA2050 board after mods but the cost and size go up, and I limit myself in terms of amp's choice. I'm still waiting for the DAC board so I can live with this dilemma for a few more weeks.
I totally abandoned the idea of SPDIF and will only use USB (via USBstreamer). Not that I don't like SPDIF but it would cost a lot more. Wish there was an affordable multichannel HDMI to I2S converter.
I'm currently getting more familiar with JRiver and installed it on my latest buy, a miniPC called Minix Z64W. I'm really impressed with how well this little thing sounds. I'm not sure if it has enough juice for a 4 way DSP with hi-res files but in stereo it works flawlessly.
So if the whole build succeeds I should be able to use Jriver to send music via USB to a monster 8 channel DAC with tube output stage and use DSP based Xover with rePhase or Bodzio software to have FIR filters for up to 2x4way speakers. Alternatively it can be used as a DAC for Blu-ray processor/computer.
That's the plan at least. I started my tube stage and in the process I managed to kill one DAC in my DCX that I used for testing. No idea why it outputs 1/6 of the default voltage now. Oh well, DIY is cheaper right? ;-)
The big question I have is whether my DAC should get even bigger by getting extra 4 class D amps. It would make sense from purity perspective and I managed to get fantastic sound from TA2050 board after mods but the cost and size go up, and I limit myself in terms of amp's choice. I'm still waiting for the DAC board so I can live with this dilemma for a few more weeks.
baMarek
after a while I can say I have found my setup with the KXStudio solution.
4 Way crossover with fixed frequencies is working very well an stable.
With an ssd the boot time is very low.
With the Quadral vulkan loudspeaker for me i have the best sound quality I ever had.
I can stream videos and audio from internet or deezer, hear my saved videos and audio, cna play cd and dvd. All in stereo.
bR
Guenter
after a while I can say I have found my setup with the KXStudio solution.
4 Way crossover with fixed frequencies is working very well an stable.
With an ssd the boot time is very low.
With the Quadral vulkan loudspeaker for me i have the best sound quality I ever had.
I can stream videos and audio from internet or deezer, hear my saved videos and audio, cna play cd and dvd. All in stereo.
bR
Guenter
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