There are a couple of posters who routinely do file analysis, then post flowery verbiage on sonic differences and the quality of their refined ears. That's why I don't participate in stuff like this, the cheating is inevitable. Tattoo just had the bad manners to point out reality.😀
Just to clarify what the files are...
One of each set X and Y, and one of set A and B are MP3 files. Having picked which are the MP3's there is then the added challenge of trying to decide which is the high bitrate file and which is the low.
One of each set X and Y, and one of set A and B are MP3 files. Having picked which are the MP3's there is then the added challenge of trying to decide which is the high bitrate file and which is the low.
Mooly....
I've got the files, I'll play them in a few days time after the 'mind-bleach' has erased all the drivel posts 😉
PS. Can't a threads OP delete or edit peoples posts or maybe ask a Moderator to do so? It would be one way of keeping these kind of threads free of BS / tainting / irrelevant / ignorant / arrogant posts and keep thread on track
I've got the files, I'll play them in a few days time after the 'mind-bleach' has erased all the drivel posts 😉
PS. Can't a threads OP delete or edit peoples posts or maybe ask a Moderator to do so? It would be one way of keeping these kind of threads free of BS / tainting / irrelevant / ignorant / arrogant posts and keep thread on track
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still a shame as needed a few more votes to get interesting. Still gives me a reference point to show that I don't have to feel bad about loading my clip with VBR -q0 mp3s
Thanks Sippy, just listen when you can.
These kind of threads always head in the same direction... so selective editing really isn't possible, well it is but there would be howls of protest 😀
I know a lot of you guys do use file analysis so I have rigged up something a bit different (I'll post a link when its up and running) where I want you to try and crack the files by whatever means you can, that means listening and/or analysis. Throw everything you have got at them and try and decide what you are listening to.
That's not ready yet, I'm working on it and trying to make it fun and interesting.
These kind of threads always head in the same direction... so selective editing really isn't possible, well it is but there would be howls of protest 😀
I know a lot of you guys do use file analysis so I have rigged up something a bit different (I'll post a link when its up and running) where I want you to try and crack the files by whatever means you can, that means listening and/or analysis. Throw everything you have got at them and try and decide what you are listening to.
That's not ready yet, I'm working on it and trying to make it fun and interesting.
I don't see the point in cheating and wouldn't know how to anyway.
It's not like there is a prize for getting it right folks!
It's not like there is a prize for getting it right folks!
Just run a spectrum analyser and you can see it very clearly. Lossy codecs cutoff high frequency content.
Pictures added.
The prise is finding the truth.
Unfortunately online tests like these are not designed to find the truth. Cheating is to easy.
Attachments
It's your right as OP mate.
If you State in the opening thread "Erroneous Posts WILL Be Removed" Everyone has to shut up and deal with it.
If they dont like it and say so, ask a Moderator to get involved
Saves a lot of
😉Last post on this subject, next post will be on topic...
(puts on his puppy-dog face)
Exactly. This is the real problem in all these tests.
When you evaluate a new audio component you use ears... those flappy things at the side of your head 😀
But like the bully who bursts a child's balloon you still decide to wreck everything. Had you looked at the votes cast before you decided to be self appointed party pooper? Had you though that some people might have been taking this seriously? Or do you somehow feel empowered by ruining it?
Another 20 votes and there could have been a very interesting outcome. The only truth I can come out with it that you have issues.
OK, as no one seems to 'have enough gravity' in their bag, I'll put the case to a Moderator to have cheating or BS posts removed.
Constantly attacking cheats does little as its a known fact the Only thing they respond to is a kick in spuds, banishment and 'large group ridicule'.
Worked enough on Lance Drugstrong (in the end)
Wanna be childish then expected to be treated like a child.....
My personal thought:
WTF am I doing acting like a diyaudio.com moderator, I've got enough moderation to do on the community I'm a mod of, dealing with cheating whining kids in Sim-Racing.
Where are the Mods BTW?
Constantly attacking cheats does little as its a known fact the Only thing they respond to is a kick in spuds, banishment and 'large group ridicule'.
Worked enough on Lance Drugstrong (in the end)
Wanna be childish then expected to be treated like a child.....
My personal thought:
WTF am I doing acting like a diyaudio.com moderator, I've got enough moderation to do on the community I'm a mod of, dealing with cheating whining kids in Sim-Racing.
Where are the Mods BTW?
I have to disagree. The cheaters were already hard at work- this stuff draws them like flies. The "outcome" is preordained, and will only be used to spread yet more misinformation in the service of egos and fantasy; I say this from having seen it happen here over and over. The cheaters have an infinite supply of rationalizations.
There's nothing a moderator can do about it, the test itself has to be designed to prevent cheating.
SY, i think you're asking a bit much
also think it's pretty easy to remove all of tattoo's posts and quotes thereof from the thread.
It's a real shame, but for the time being I'll just be reading posts by tattoo as 'tit too'
🙂
also think it's pretty easy to remove all of tattoo's posts and quotes thereof from the thread.
It's a real shame, but for the time being I'll just be reading posts by tattoo as 'tit too'
🙂
The cheaters are well aware of how to cheat. This is nothing new. We do not censor technical posts, ever.
Mooly is a good friend and I understand (and agree with) his intentions fully. He's already working on some ways to help improve the controls here. The reality may well be that, for something like this, an in-person test is the only practical way to get good controls, but I hope I'm wrong about that.
Mooly is a good friend and I understand (and agree with) his intentions fully. He's already working on some ways to help improve the controls here. The reality may well be that, for something like this, an in-person test is the only practical way to get good controls, but I hope I'm wrong about that.
🙁 I already have my own impression of the damage MP3 compression can do to high quality recordings (especially below 192kbs) but as i only ever listen to music using my ears, cheating by looking at a graph is totally pointless. The damage now done to this quite interesting test is pointless too, we already know that MP3 is a lossy format, the point is how well can we HEAR the effects of compression.
It goes much further than just that!
When I perceive music I do that with my brain, like every other human being.
And the brain uses EVERYTHING it has at its disposal to come up with a perception. See: McGurk_effect
So for audio testing you indeed need only your ears as input to the brain. Other inputs like memory, eyes and other senses influence the test. Closing your eyes when listening doesn't count.
My point: Subjective testing is difficult.
So what are you actually hearing ?
While this thread is still running I had a major rethink on how to try and get a handle on what you actually hear.
Which is all nicely explained in the new thread below. I know downloading files is a pain and so I tried to come up with something where we can just discuss the shortcomings or merits of a single short test track.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/loun...o-get-your-ears-listen-comments-welcomed.html
We'll let this one run a bit longer yet before revealing all.
While this thread is still running I had a major rethink on how to try and get a handle on what you actually hear.
Which is all nicely explained in the new thread below. I know downloading files is a pain and so I tried to come up with something where we can just discuss the shortcomings or merits of a single short test track.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/loun...o-get-your-ears-listen-comments-welcomed.html
We'll let this one run a bit longer yet before revealing all.
Sy,
So if I post a step by step guide of how to take down diy audio, or defraud diy audio members, etc etc, would you keep them up as long as they were technical?
My point is quite a high moral stand point is taken on these forums, which to a great extent I feel is justified and well founded, but this thread was trashed unnecessarily and the lack of willingness to moderate it is highly questionable.
Surely that's the job of the moderators?
I would point out I'm well aware of posts of my own that have been moderated, which were far less offensive, and in my opinion technical.
So if I post a step by step guide of how to take down diy audio, or defraud diy audio members, etc etc, would you keep them up as long as they were technical?
My point is quite a high moral stand point is taken on these forums, which to a great extent I feel is justified and well founded, but this thread was trashed unnecessarily and the lack of willingness to moderate it is highly questionable.
Surely that's the job of the moderators?
I would point out I'm well aware of posts of my own that have been moderated, which were far less offensive, and in my opinion technical.
Actually, that would be useful. Countermeasures rely on understanding the means of attack.
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