I am new to this forum but have been a devotee of full range efficient speakers for over 15 years. Three years ago I uprooted and retired to Portugal, for the weather and to play lots of golf. At that time I downsized and sold off my Oris Horn/ Onken setup and most of my amplifiers etc. Now due to serious illness I find I have lots of time to listen to my music again.
I am desperate to find a suitable full range speaker that I can built in the next 5 weeks before I go back into hospital for a major op.
I can't seem to get over the loss of my Oris horns (Lowther DX4) and find I cannot listen to my electrostats as I loose interest in the music playing. As I am now a pensioner cost is an issue. Also to keep my other half happy I need a full range speaker that is no more than say 45" high and aesthetically pleasing. Additionally it must be happy being driven by either Single Ended 2A3's or SE 45 amplifiers. My room is 18.5'x13.5'x9' and I play both records and CD's. As I live in an apartment I try to keep levels below 85db.
I have been considering the frugal horn and the Bryn. As I like my system to sound reasonably lifelike and portray the excitement of the music I feel there could also be other options that I should consider. Good bass is a must but deep bass is not that overly important to me.. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Russ
I am desperate to find a suitable full range speaker that I can built in the next 5 weeks before I go back into hospital for a major op.
I can't seem to get over the loss of my Oris horns (Lowther DX4) and find I cannot listen to my electrostats as I loose interest in the music playing. As I am now a pensioner cost is an issue. Also to keep my other half happy I need a full range speaker that is no more than say 45" high and aesthetically pleasing. Additionally it must be happy being driven by either Single Ended 2A3's or SE 45 amplifiers. My room is 18.5'x13.5'x9' and I play both records and CD's. As I live in an apartment I try to keep levels below 85db.
I have been considering the frugal horn and the Bryn. As I like my system to sound reasonably lifelike and portray the excitement of the music I feel there could also be other options that I should consider. Good bass is a must but deep bass is not that overly important to me.. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Russ
An inverted BiB can be built to a shorter height at the cost of some bass. If you can stretch, I think the Harveys are great, they sound very horn-like to me, and the profile is very narrow. I think the tough part is deciding which driver, as you don't necessarily need the highest efficiency if you're playing at lower SPL's.
Your stated height requirement would include lots of MLTL possibilities but if you are addicted to the horn sound, I would build a horn like the inverted BiB (or Harvey).
Your stated height requirement would include lots of MLTL possibilities but if you are addicted to the horn sound, I would build a horn like the inverted BiB (or Harvey).
I second Jeff.
Ask Dave for his recommendations and make sure you get the EnABL'd version of whatever the two of you come up with. You will never look back. Mostly due to paralysis setting in, from being unable to turn away from the drifts of music heaping up in front of you.
Bud
Ask Dave for his recommendations and make sure you get the EnABL'd version of whatever the two of you come up with. You will never look back. Mostly due to paralysis setting in, from being unable to turn away from the drifts of music heaping up in front of you.
Bud
Russ, after losing a few good too many friends and associates recently, I hope the operation is successful, and your recovery swift.
Call me biased, 'cause I've built more than a few of them, but the Fonken (prime) with FE127eN is probably still my favorite FR system, and with the (W)right SET amp and recordings, can be as Bud suggests, a portal to emotional connection with the artists. Well, OK, the F120A is really special, but not readily available - but more importantly not a great match with 45 or 2A3 SE, and barely adequate with 300B .
However, any version of the Fonken prime is more that just a little bit of a pain in the a$$ to actually build (even after a couple of dozen pairs, the time just doesn't seem to get shorter)
During the past 5 years or so, I've had the opportunity to hear the FE127 in more than a few enclosures, and as refined a match as the Fonken was for this driver before July of 2007, Mr Purvine is too modest to take the full measure of appropriate credit for unleashing upon us the ineffable "majik" of those little polka dots.
Brynn, on the other hand, is pretty straight forward, doesn't occupy much more floorspace than the Fonkens with the requisite stands, and is still very enjoyable.
Of course, none of these enclosures with the intended drivers will deliver the dynamics or sensitivity of your Oris system- but I think you knew that already.
The Fostex FE126E is certainly worth consideration, but FWIW, based on my limited listening experience to BIB ( i.e. one sample only, with the FE108EZ, with which I'm familiar), the quality of bass is sacrificed for quantity. Either the Ron Clark A126 or Scottmoose Spawn design Saburo would be my suggestions for someone with the time on their hands (neither are a quick Saturday afternoon build)
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/download/RonHorn-A126-plans260207.pdf
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/download/Saburo-1v0-map-0102008.pdf
Call me biased, 'cause I've built more than a few of them, but the Fonken (prime) with FE127eN is probably still my favorite FR system, and with the (W)right SET amp and recordings, can be as Bud suggests, a portal to emotional connection with the artists. Well, OK, the F120A is really special, but not readily available - but more importantly not a great match with 45 or 2A3 SE, and barely adequate with 300B .
However, any version of the Fonken prime is more that just a little bit of a pain in the a$$ to actually build (even after a couple of dozen pairs, the time just doesn't seem to get shorter)
During the past 5 years or so, I've had the opportunity to hear the FE127 in more than a few enclosures, and as refined a match as the Fonken was for this driver before July of 2007, Mr Purvine is too modest to take the full measure of appropriate credit for unleashing upon us the ineffable "majik" of those little polka dots.
Brynn, on the other hand, is pretty straight forward, doesn't occupy much more floorspace than the Fonkens with the requisite stands, and is still very enjoyable.
Of course, none of these enclosures with the intended drivers will deliver the dynamics or sensitivity of your Oris system- but I think you knew that already.
The Fostex FE126E is certainly worth consideration, but FWIW, based on my limited listening experience to BIB ( i.e. one sample only, with the FE108EZ, with which I'm familiar), the quality of bass is sacrificed for quantity. Either the Ron Clark A126 or Scottmoose Spawn design Saburo would be my suggestions for someone with the time on their hands (neither are a quick Saturday afternoon build)
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/download/RonHorn-A126-plans260207.pdf
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/download/Saburo-1v0-map-0102008.pdf
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Thanks for your insights Chris. There seems to be quite a groundswell of opinion that the Fonken (prime) could be the way for me to go. Out of ignorance I assume that the Fonken Prime is the standard original Fonken.
The Fonkens might just do what I want. However I have a pair of superb near field monitors which I bought mid 90's which just don't do it for me so I am a little bit biased against bookshelf sized speakers.
Also I must admit to still being a lover of the sound that a good Lowther setup can attain. Unfortunately I can't afford these drivers now. I therefore was tending to lean towards the Fostex Fe126e as I was thinking that this driver might be able to ring out a bit more of the excitement and emotion than the Fe127e. That was also the reason I thought the CHR-70 might be a suitable choice for me to work around.
I think the Saburo would definitely be a speaker I would like but it is too large for me. Also I do not want speakers that require rear wall reinforcement as my room is exceptionally lively being all concrete, tiles and large ceiling to floor height windows. So that rules out the A126 and probably the Frugal Horns as well.
So at this stage I have narrowed my project down to three possibles. I will try to overcome my bookshelf size speaker prejudices and further consider the Fonken. For ease I might just build the Bryn. However I have been taken with the microTower bipolar ML-TL with CHR-70. It meets my criteria for size and aesthetics. My PP 2A3 is exceptional and there is very little between it and my SE 2A3's. In fact most of my friends have actually preferred it to my single ended amps. So I look forward to you thoughts Chris after you try your castle ML-TL with various tube amps this weekend.
A pair of Fe127en drivers in Fonken's, mounted on stands, that put the drivers at about ear height, will throw a sound field from floor to ceiling and wall to wall, if the music contains that. The sound field will not be attached to the drivers. Instead it will erupt from the wall behind the speakers. Your listening position can be anywhere in the room, though the usual spot is best, even if only slightly.
These have nothing to do with book shelf speakers, and much to do with six foot tall maggies that have been set up correctly. And that is just the 127's. You might want to read this report for a gentle idea about the differences between 126's and 127's.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136957&perpage=25&highlight=&pagenumber=1
I have a pair of 127's in Fonken boxes in my living room and they are making me very lazy about building my open baffles for Lowthers, which I do dearly love to listen to, once EnABL'd. 126's were just a bit too willing to go ballistic for my taste, but then so was a DX 4, I much prefer the PM6A.
Bud
These have nothing to do with book shelf speakers, and much to do with six foot tall maggies that have been set up correctly. And that is just the 127's. You might want to read this report for a gentle idea about the differences between 126's and 127's.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136957&perpage=25&highlight=&pagenumber=1
I have a pair of 127's in Fonken boxes in my living room and they are making me very lazy about building my open baffles for Lowthers, which I do dearly love to listen to, once EnABL'd. 126's were just a bit too willing to go ballistic for my taste, but then so was a DX 4, I much prefer the PM6A.
Bud
And there is my quandary. Maybe I can't hear very well anymore but I loved the DX4 sound. So I could well be very happy with a pair of enABLED 126e's
Russ
a theoretically marginally better match sensitivity-wise to your flea-watt amplifiers 😱
Based on what I've heard from Scott's design "Aiko", originally intended for a very disappointing little Lyeco driver, but since repurposed with very satisfactory results to the FE108EZ, I'd suggest either his Saburo, or Ron Clarkes' A126 for the FE126E
Russ,
I would think so. An EnABL'd DX4 is a real animal though. I have never had so dynamic a driver. Perhaps a threefold increase in dynamic excursion, no shout at all, perfect clarity, wild tonal color.
The guy who begged me to treat them has yet to figure out how to stand having them. He loves horns, but his Azura horn for the DX 4 was way beyond too much to listen to, so he mounted the DX 4's nude and put the horn on the back side. Alternately wrote about being on his knees praying for more bliss and running from the room in fear.
The treated Fe126en's I did for Harry, out of the HornShoppe crowd, were pretty active. They did not have the Planet 10 pre treatment and certainly would have benefited from it, but politics wouldn't allow.....
Bud
I would think so. An EnABL'd DX4 is a real animal though. I have never had so dynamic a driver. Perhaps a threefold increase in dynamic excursion, no shout at all, perfect clarity, wild tonal color.
The guy who begged me to treat them has yet to figure out how to stand having them. He loves horns, but his Azura horn for the DX 4 was way beyond too much to listen to, so he mounted the DX 4's nude and put the horn on the back side. Alternately wrote about being on his knees praying for more bliss and running from the room in fear.
The treated Fe126en's I did for Harry, out of the HornShoppe crowd, were pretty active. They did not have the Planet 10 pre treatment and certainly would have benefited from it, but politics wouldn't allow.....
Bud
Chris,
While excepting that your above recommendations are great designs, I have had to discount both the Saburo based on size (greater than 40") and the
A126 as I do not wish to use wall reinforcement. Additional I do not think the A126 will meet my WAF (My Onkens didn't either but I had my own dedicated room then).
Therefore, with some regret (and I haven't even heard them yet...lol) I am moving away from using idea of using the FE126e as my driver of choice.
I really do like my PP 2A3's so with those 8 watts at my disposal the worlds my oyster. As long as the speakers are small and perfectly formed.....🙂.
Russ - well my listening session didn't work out quite like planned for the weekend, but I did get to spend 12 hours digging in the dirt, prepping for laying new patio pavers.
I'll endeavor to get a few hours in during the next couple of evenings - after a few recent weeks of busy-ness, I could certainly use the break myself.
I'd somehow forgotten your height limitations, obviously the Saburo or any similar format enclosure would not be a practical suggestion.
I'll endeavor to get a few hours in during the next couple of evenings - after a few recent weeks of busy-ness, I could certainly use the break myself.
I'd somehow forgotten your height limitations, obviously the Saburo or any similar format enclosure would not be a practical suggestion.
>>> Now due to serious illness...
Feel better! Sixteen months ago I was sick and now I'm not anymore. Wishing you a speedy recovery! If anyone's interested all my vitals are in the 'normal' range but one... my heart rate is 54... better than normal (all that krav maga). So after your operation as you prepare to recover there is a good possibility you can come out better than new if only for a surgical scar as a constant reminder of your past.
I believe the Frugal Horn is shorter than 45" so you can still consider the 126e. You may also want to consider those Onkens along with a sub or even some other small monitor type speaker with a sub - or two subs. There are lots of ways to skin this speaker cat IMO. Funny to think of the 126e as a poor man's Lowther but it really probably is... as is the 166e, 206e, etc.
You may also consider something completely different, perhaps something very inexpensive like a Pioneer B20 in a simple ported or slotted box, built to exactly the size and shape you desire, and a cheap tweeter. It will NOT sound anything like your Lowther based system but it will play music and it will allow you to enjoy your listening sessions using your tube amp without breaking the bank at all... and allow you to give something away as a gift to a friend in need one day. And after you've built this cheap system you can set your sights higher during your recovery, like i did, and build something better. Who knows, you may end up with a pair of Lowthers again in BIBs... they are tall but they do present a small footprint.
Good luck!
Godzilla
http://www.zillaaudio.com/pioneerb20-piezo.htm
Feel better! Sixteen months ago I was sick and now I'm not anymore. Wishing you a speedy recovery! If anyone's interested all my vitals are in the 'normal' range but one... my heart rate is 54... better than normal (all that krav maga). So after your operation as you prepare to recover there is a good possibility you can come out better than new if only for a surgical scar as a constant reminder of your past.
I believe the Frugal Horn is shorter than 45" so you can still consider the 126e. You may also want to consider those Onkens along with a sub or even some other small monitor type speaker with a sub - or two subs. There are lots of ways to skin this speaker cat IMO. Funny to think of the 126e as a poor man's Lowther but it really probably is... as is the 166e, 206e, etc.
You may also consider something completely different, perhaps something very inexpensive like a Pioneer B20 in a simple ported or slotted box, built to exactly the size and shape you desire, and a cheap tweeter. It will NOT sound anything like your Lowther based system but it will play music and it will allow you to enjoy your listening sessions using your tube amp without breaking the bank at all... and allow you to give something away as a gift to a friend in need one day. And after you've built this cheap system you can set your sights higher during your recovery, like i did, and build something better. Who knows, you may end up with a pair of Lowthers again in BIBs... they are tall but they do present a small footprint.
Good luck!
Godzilla
http://www.zillaaudio.com/pioneerb20-piezo.htm
And it looks as a result, that i'll have instant lawn for my backyard terraforming project -- Tys & i are just about to go out and lay sod.
dave
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
It seems to me that the time limit should be a guide as to what can be accomplished. Wasting a week on this Forum isn't going to help, so I suggest something simple and proven.
Based on my limited knowledge...I suggest an off-the-shelf design from Planet 10 built around the Fostex 127, or around the more balanced Alpair 6. The Fostex will be closer in sound to the Lowther and being more sensitive than the Alpair it will make better use of those 8W..
Making speakers takes longer than you think, always some little niggles and the need to source parts etc. So aim for really simple, a vented BR, pipe or related simple TL.
All the best with the operation, be nice to the nurses 😉
My recommendation is a pair of Decware HDT's. I've run them with a Tubelab SE 2A3 but not enough balls for jam bands, the slight mod to 300B's in the same circuit feeding the HDT's is awesome. The HDT's are easy to build, good bass (got rid of my sub), can be bought built and sound very nice. With the fe206's you are looking at 96db for 1 watt so your listening level would be a very nice match from a 2A3 SE amp. Just my 2 cents worth.
PS, after much study I am now building a set of the mini-Onkens for my bedroom. We shall see. They will be powered by Tubelabs Simple PP or the Amp6 class D sand amp, Peter Daniels NOS TDA1543 usb DAC feeds all from a linux fanless PC.
PS, after much study I am now building a set of the mini-Onkens for my bedroom. We shall see. They will be powered by Tubelabs Simple PP or the Amp6 class D sand amp, Peter Daniels NOS TDA1543 usb DAC feeds all from a linux fanless PC.
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