Easy enough to do, there is no gain adjustment on Line In. The PUI mic capsules are loud enough that there is some signal there. I'll see if digital boost is viable.
Still have the right mic bias problem, tho.
OK, here are the results.
Line in with just a 3.5mm cable plugged in. Noise Left -86.3dB RMS on Left and Right
Line with PUI mics plugged in. Noise Right -89dB RMS. Left (mic is active) -13dB
How much of that noise is from the air? Don't know. It's quiet here this morning and the mic was under two heavy cushions on the bed. See spectrum below. This has been digitally boosted 60dB.
Line in with just a 3.5mm cable plugged in. Noise Left -86.3dB RMS on Left and Right
Line with PUI mics plugged in. Noise Right -89dB RMS. Left (mic is active) -13dB
How much of that noise is from the air? Don't know. It's quiet here this morning and the mic was under two heavy cushions on the bed. See spectrum below. This has been digitally boosted 60dB.
Condenser microphones always have lots of low-frequency noise, fortunately you don't hear those frequencies very well. Does the noise with microphone sound stronger than the noise without microphone when the latter is boosted by an additional 6 dB?
Thanks. Makes sense. An easy test is to record with the Mic setting in low gain* and then with the Line setting and compare the recordings after volume matching. Just mono at the moment, but worth a try.
*Anything more and the PUI mic capsules clip the recording.
*Anything more and the PUI mic capsules clip the recording.
Looking at the spectrum plots you posted earlier, it looks like the difference is only greater than 7 dB below 200 Hz. Above 1 kHz, there is hardly any difference, so the recorder dominates completely. That is, I think you need a microphone amplifier.
Yes. I just listened to the noise and it's very much the same left and right above 1000 Hz, even 500Hz. For sure there is environmental noise adding to the low end when the mic is active. Sounds like the bass line of music far away. Nothing I could hear at all. Some distant traffic too, I suspect. That's most of the higher level in the LF of the left mic.
Thanks for suggesting the test. If only I could get the 3V bias over to the right mic without too much crosstalk this little recorder would be useful using the low gain mic setting.
Thanks for suggesting the test. If only I could get the 3V bias over to the right mic without too much crosstalk this little recorder would be useful using the low gain mic setting.
I thought that with or without the microphone supply issue, it refused to record in stereo when you use the microphone input, or am I mixing things up?
No, you are correct. I keep forgetting that in mic mode it sends the left to both tracks. 😡 Wishful thinking on my part.
The only way to fix that would be to modify the firmware, and that's far above my skill level.
The only way to fix that would be to modify the firmware, and that's far above my skill level.
The Sony looks like the best choice for what I want to do. It's larger and not as handy as the little Evida, but at least it will record stereo from the mic input should have decent battery life.
Somehow it seems a bit silly to worry about the Zoom H4n being too large, decades ago I carried around a Sony DAT machine and thought it was wonderfully compact. Same with the Sony pro cassette. But I wanted to be lighter and less obtrusive. See the photos below to compare. The Sony is about twice the overall volume of the little Evida.
But the little machine might come in handy as as test generator. It will playback Wav, MP3, FLAC. OGG, WMP and Ape files! I can load it up with test signals and music. I used to do that with a little SanDisk player, but it died.
Somehow it seems a bit silly to worry about the Zoom H4n being too large, decades ago I carried around a Sony DAT machine and thought it was wonderfully compact. Same with the Sony pro cassette. But I wanted to be lighter and less obtrusive. See the photos below to compare. The Sony is about twice the overall volume of the little Evida.
But the little machine might come in handy as as test generator. It will playback Wav, MP3, FLAC. OGG, WMP and Ape files! I can load it up with test signals and music. I used to do that with a little SanDisk player, but it died.
I did many many hours on a Nakamichi 550. With dynamic mikes and cast-iron mike stands. My career lasted well into the CD age, across many machines, which is why I'm curious how you are making out.
I did start to think that all the digital recorders, aside from some miniDisc machines, and later ZOOM, actively discouraged portable recording. I did a lot of personal (not school) work on a CDR4U, an excellent portable CDR with analog inputs, but had to carry a mike-preamp also. Jeez, they cudda fit that in! However I had a eBay "Alert" set for many years and only three others ever came up, so it must have been low sales. Because or despite lack of mike inputs?
https://tascam.com/images/products/cd-rw4u/CD-RW4U.jpg
Field memory recorders like the Fostex FR2 and FR2-LE (both "archived products" now...) and the Marantz PMD-670, PMD-671 (discontinued products) and PMD661MKIII (in production) certainly have built-in microphone amplifiers.
I just ordered the Sony. I did see that there is a smaller Sony that claims to have a stereo mic input and costs about $10 less. But I figure the PX-470 might be a little better. The little (now free) Evida will come in handy if I want playback or to use a mono lavalier mic, that sort of thing. The Sony will be for going around trying to capture soundscapes and stuff.
Years ago I made living doing sound design for theater. Small, decent quality recorders were very handy for hunting sounds out in the wild. At home I edited on Tascam and Revox open reel. I did not want to use those as field recorders. 😱 I have used a few CD recorders over the years, maybe Marantz? No built in mic preamp. Back in the mid 80s when I was starting to go digital I remember recording a concert using the Sony PCM laying tracks onto 3/4" U-Matic tape. Expensive and bulky. A bloke shows up from Radio France to record some of the show and he's using a Hi-Fi VHS recorder! He said he was very happy with it, and they liked his work at la Maison de la Radio, so I finally went with a JVC VHS for concert audio recording. Of course, like the CD recorders, it was line in only.
I have the Zoom H4n and also a TASCAM portable that I got from Scott Wurcer. Both have XLR, and 3.5mm inputs for mic or line and do very nice recordings. That's what I've used in the past few years. Now that I'm retired, I'm looking for a hobby, so "Sound Hunter" might be it. I can try to put together some little sonic stories for my own amusement.
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Looking for a handheld field recorder I purchased the TASCAM DR-40X. This provides an in-built stereo-mic as well as external inputs, storage on SD-cards, monitor-speaker. You can use it as USB-sound card and use its mics like an USB stereo Mic. It is far more expensive than your recorder, but worth the money imho as the recordings are of excellent quality.
Yes, that's a nice one. I had seriously considered it when I bought my Zoom H4n, They seem very similar. But it's not the tiny, slip it in a pocket, long battery life device I was wanting for walking around with. I do use the Zoom, and/or the TASCAM DR-60D MkII when set up for more serious stuff.
I've had the Sony recorder for a couple of weeks and it's OK. At least it does record the mic input as stereo. However it's kinda noisy. Even at the lowest gain setting for external mic, there is some hiss. About like good cassette recordings. Mostly the hiss is masked by whatever is recorded, but it's there in quiet parts.
The little Evida recorder is noticeable quieter on low gain external mic. It's fine with a lapel mic, as it records to 2 track mono and is clean. I use it for that.
The Sony is somewhat larger, but still an easy pocket size. Because the Evida is metal, it weighs 92g vs the larger plastic Sony at 74g. Too bad it has mono external mic input. Just one little hardware and one easy firmware change would make this the better, and cheaper, recorder.
The little Evida recorder is noticeable quieter on low gain external mic. It's fine with a lapel mic, as it records to 2 track mono and is clean. I use it for that.
The Sony is somewhat larger, but still an easy pocket size. Because the Evida is metal, it weighs 92g vs the larger plastic Sony at 74g. Too bad it has mono external mic input. Just one little hardware and one easy firmware change would make this the better, and cheaper, recorder.