limono said:
What I fully intend to do is emulate George at TubeLab.com. He is a member here BTY, and I find him to be quite reputable. His choice of OPTs appear to be well researched, and I will go along with his recommendation of the Transcender OPTs. If not that, there are others that are just as good.
As for speakers with high sensitivity, I am currently looking for a nice pair of Philco console radios, definately the style that ran from 1940-through at least the next two years after WWII. This is the 40-180, 41-280, 42-380, 46-480 consoles. Here is what I am talking about.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
These remind me of classic Juke-Boxes, and are simply stunning. Also, there were over one million of them made in their day, and are not as rare at others. Take out the old speakers and attach a pair of Hawthorne Silver Irises, and you have righteous sound coming out of that set of tubes.
I would think that any tube amp, be it SET or P-P could easily handle the Silver Irises, don't you think?
John,
While the Silver Iris driver has been well received, I'd be cautious about installing them in vintage radios. Those fine radios predate the introduction of AlNiCo permanent magnets. It's highly likely that type of radio used a field coil speaker. That field coil is part of the B+ PSU filter.
"Look before you leap"!
While the Silver Iris driver has been well received, I'd be cautious about installing them in vintage radios. Those fine radios predate the introduction of AlNiCo permanent magnets. It's highly likely that type of radio used a field coil speaker. That field coil is part of the B+ PSU filter.
"Look before you leap"!
Eli Duttman said:
Let me try this again. Aparently you and I are not using the same telephone line, so to speak. I am not talking about using the amplifiers within the Philcos. I am talking about just using them as speaker enclosures, and housing the Silver Irises, and using my regular tube gear somewhere in the living room, be it vintage, or hand made.
I got this idea from George at Tubelab.com. He has two Zeniths sitting in his living room and uses them in just the same way. Only I would rather use the Philcos instead. Here is what I mean. And see how he did things with the Silver Irises? I will just be storing the speakers and getting around to rebuilding the radios,........................whenever I can get around to it, if you catch my drift.
This is my idea of CLASS, and something that you will not see just anywhere, don't you agree?
All points are true.Eli Duttman said:
However, in my experience, most SE fans are looking for the amps to add some colour to the sound, either because they like it, or to end up with a net amplifier/speaker response (in terms of THD spectra and FR) . No problem with that, but in terms of high-fidelity (to the original signal) they are coloured and I cannot consider them to be hifi items. In this respect a well implemented PP is a 'better' design. Depends what you want; a clearer glass (PP) or one of a hue to your preference (SE).
Edit: forgot to add that few people have heard what a well designed and implemented PP amp is actually capable of, when designed to the same level of detail implementation as most DIY SE amps. I have built many of my own designs over the years, but for reference I will give 4 that I have built by others that are very clear sonically but all very different; Allen Wright PP1C and PP2C, Lynn Olson Amity and Gary Pimm's PP47. The first two have had several variations built. I've use HE speakers for all this time; the lowest were 92dB (Ariel and KEF 104/2) and the higherst have been well over 100dB.
Typically the PP amps commented on by many people are classic designs which can be good to excellent, but they are far from what the topology is capable of, even if I still find them all more preferable to any SE I've heard.
John L said:
Let me try this again. Aparently you and I are not using the same telephone line, so to speak. I am not talking about using the amplifiers within the Philcos. I am talking about just using them as speaker enclosures, and housing the Silver Irises, and using my regular tube gear somewhere in the living room, be it vintage, or hand made.
I got this idea from George at Tubelab.com. He has two Zeniths sitting in his living room and uses them in just the same way. Only I would rather use the Philcos instead. Here is what I mean. And see how he did things with the Silver Irises? I will just be storing the speakers and getting around to rebuilding the radios,........................whenever I can get around to it, if you catch my drift.
This is my idea of CLASS, and something that you will not see just anywhere, don't you agree?
John,
We are on the same page. I just wanted to be sure you knew the implications for the OLD electronics in the radios.
I can see where those 1930s cabinets would have SOAF. The wall hangings, cloth drapings, and "dodads" in George's LR are definitely the work of a SO.
I have some hypothesis why SE, and amps high in 2nd HD, generally seem to "sound" better (to some).
Real music is LOUD, especially compared to what we listen to with a stereo. It's surprisingly hard to reproduce music at realistic levels with realistic dynamics, unless you are willing to annoy family and neighbors. But, with an SE amp, there is some added nonlinearity and 2nd HD that is reasonably similar to that produced by one's ear at higher listening levels. So, by listening to a gently-distorting SE amp at ~70dB you can more-closely reproduce the effect of listening to an actual performance at ~80dB. With a push pull low-distortion amp, one might need to crank it to 80dB to achieve enough ear distortion to seem natural. But then, you have to contend with greater speaker nonlinearity, etc. I get the impression that people who listen to simple acoustic music might prefer SE because it fills in the blanks left by their ears when listening at lower levels. So, I would hypothesize that the preference for SE or PP may thus arise in the way we hear music (whether we focus on harmonics, or on the fundamental), in the types of music we prefer (and levels we can listen at), and in the way our ears distort.
One who "needs" added harmonics to appreciate music at reasonable volume levels will probably "need" an SE amp (or some colorful speakers) to make up the distortion that their ears would otherwise produce. Personally, I can't comfortably listen to an SE amp, unless it's grossly overpowered for its speakers. Most sound unnatural and psychedelic to me. But I also accept that music will sound "uninteresting" and artificial at low volume levels when played back with a low distortion PP amp. So, perhaps a more effective "loudness" button for the 21st century would be a 2nd HD generator -- Just throwing this out there.
Real music is LOUD, especially compared to what we listen to with a stereo. It's surprisingly hard to reproduce music at realistic levels with realistic dynamics, unless you are willing to annoy family and neighbors. But, with an SE amp, there is some added nonlinearity and 2nd HD that is reasonably similar to that produced by one's ear at higher listening levels. So, by listening to a gently-distorting SE amp at ~70dB you can more-closely reproduce the effect of listening to an actual performance at ~80dB. With a push pull low-distortion amp, one might need to crank it to 80dB to achieve enough ear distortion to seem natural. But then, you have to contend with greater speaker nonlinearity, etc. I get the impression that people who listen to simple acoustic music might prefer SE because it fills in the blanks left by their ears when listening at lower levels. So, I would hypothesize that the preference for SE or PP may thus arise in the way we hear music (whether we focus on harmonics, or on the fundamental), in the types of music we prefer (and levels we can listen at), and in the way our ears distort.
One who "needs" added harmonics to appreciate music at reasonable volume levels will probably "need" an SE amp (or some colorful speakers) to make up the distortion that their ears would otherwise produce. Personally, I can't comfortably listen to an SE amp, unless it's grossly overpowered for its speakers. Most sound unnatural and psychedelic to me. But I also accept that music will sound "uninteresting" and artificial at low volume levels when played back with a low distortion PP amp. So, perhaps a more effective "loudness" button for the 21st century would be a 2nd HD generator -- Just throwing this out there.
Eli Duttman said:
He is married, and marriages are supposed to be partnerships. My two partnerships did not pan out, so I am through trying that route again. I'm just too old and set in my ways to put up with someone telling me I am wrong all the time, or lecturing me on how to be right.
When I was younger I thought it was a crazy notion to actually think I could do with a woman. Now I know it is not only possible for me,...but preferable. My sex drive is just not there anymore, and the Prozac does not help either. Only one female in my house, and that is my little Sheh-tzu.
And as for the "Implications" concerning the old radio, since I don't intend to use any of the old wiring, I don't think I will have any, other than the speakers are removed and stored somewhere else.
ECC33 said:
hey-Hey!!!,
I would suggest shifting your benchmark upwards. Like away from AB1, away from cost saving measures required by finance departments...to something directly heated, Class A, and not flea-powered. Something with mass comparable to your own on a per channel basis...
cheers,
Douglas
+1, but it doesn't need to be DH.Bandersnatch said:
hey-Hey!!!,
I would suggest shifting your benchmark upwards. Like away from AB1, away from cost saving measures required by finance departments...to something directly heated, Class A, and not flea-powered. Something with mass comparable to your own on a per channel basis...
cheers,
Douglas
I love it when everyone talks dirty.
However, remember that throwing around acronyms on a continual basis, and not leading off with the complete wording, can be confusing to the less educated( I am one of them).
Just a recommendation, since there are many lurking or newbies, who most certainly will find it hard to follow. It is not all that time consuming to spell things out at least once.
However, remember that throwing around acronyms on a continual basis, and not leading off with the complete wording, can be confusing to the less educated( I am one of them).
Just a recommendation, since there are many lurking or newbies, who most certainly will find it hard to follow. It is not all that time consuming to spell things out at least once.
John L said:I love it when everyone talks dirty.
However, remember that throwing around acronyms on a continual basis, and not leading off with the complete wording, can be confusing to the less educated( I am one of them).
Just a recommendation, since there are many lurking or newbies, who most certainly will find it hard to follow. It is not all that time consuming to spell things out at least once.
yeah, you're probably right...
DH directly heated, IDH indirectly heated, aka unipotential as the element heating it with the voltage gradient across it is not the cathode which is usually a tube and has no intentional voltage gradient across it.
TT Thoriated Tungsten, as used in 845, 813, 211 and many others, a subset of directly heated, as the part that gets hot is also the cathode.
cheers,
Douglas
kacernator said:
hey-Hey!!!,
Here is one:
http://www.audioroundtable.com/GroupBuild/Projects/Merlin.pdf
It has been slightly simplified, but the OPT is wound with taps at 20, 30 and 40% across its 10k a-a primary. The gates in the cascode are now ref'd with voltage divider with a cap across the resistor between cathode and gate.
cheers,
Douglas
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.