Ok sweet, will ensure baffle can handle it first 🙂 Thinking i may try to figure out ways of additionally cross-bracing the cabinet as well in the meantime before the drivers arrive, which will be tricky given its already assembled with fixed panels. Open to suggestions from the forum of course, as well as any other measures aside from picking up some insulation to experiment with as well.
Iiiiinteresting. At this point, given all research and recommendation, I think I'd rather sell the unmodified Fostexes as they are and let the next owner mod them to their heart's content. Even if it's a more lateral move than others would consider, which it doesn't seem to be, the MA200s are the platform I prefer to start with. According to your experience, I may need to step my baffles regardless of driver, though?
Yes. I've never been able to get away without it. People say toe in or whatever will take care of it, but that means your head will be even more locked in a vise, for the imaging and now the tonality. I don't think the problem with your bsc circuit is that it's a bsc circuit, but that it has that zobel and the iron core inductor. You could use an aircore and get a little series resistance too for your Q. Dustcaps suck.
https://www.google.com/search?q=notch+filter+for+fostex+206en&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Another thing, when you chamfer the inside of the hole, remember to take into account where the mounting holes are, as you have four now and potentially five or six?
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Fun development - In my process of discussing the ideas of a future bespoke, ideally-suited cabinet for the MA-200s with a friend (who happens to have both immense woodworking resources and skills), he kinda got the bug as well, and is now likely to design a pair for each of us at a future point, from scratch. Well, plywood, etc., but this brings up an interesting question for us that we're currently scouring the forum and internet at large for: is there a definitive guide to which box design works "best" for different applications/ears/genres/etc?
There are bits and pieces on this forum, all very helpful, and some notes on the markaudio website build diagrams, but I was wondering if I'm obliviously missing the volume of reference that outlines in detail the advantages/disadvantages of, say, a Syncerus Antiquus MA200M MLTL vs a Pensil MA200-M-metric vs a MA200M Floorstanding DCR beyond the brief notes in those instructions. Right now we're thinking the super pencil for us both, each having non-flea-wattage amps (mine the Naim, his likely something similar) where efficiency won't be as much an issue, though definitely would not be a disadvantage if we bite the bug for conservatively powered tube amps in the future.
In either case, it looks like my MLTLs will be a temporary half-way home for the MA-200s, which will eventually be moving on up to something perfectly matched 🙂 Thanks for the tips, y'all!
There are bits and pieces on this forum, all very helpful, and some notes on the markaudio website build diagrams, but I was wondering if I'm obliviously missing the volume of reference that outlines in detail the advantages/disadvantages of, say, a Syncerus Antiquus MA200M MLTL vs a Pensil MA200-M-metric vs a MA200M Floorstanding DCR beyond the brief notes in those instructions. Right now we're thinking the super pencil for us both, each having non-flea-wattage amps (mine the Naim, his likely something similar) where efficiency won't be as much an issue, though definitely would not be a disadvantage if we bite the bug for conservatively powered tube amps in the future.
In either case, it looks like my MLTLs will be a temporary half-way home for the MA-200s, which will eventually be moving on up to something perfectly matched 🙂 Thanks for the tips, y'all!
No-one has “your’ ear/brain, tastes, room, support kit... way to many unknown for us to tell you.
dave
dave
Just to echo what Dave said.
No definite guide as far as I know, since this always comes down to context: what you're trying to achieve, what the rest of the system is, how much room you have etc. That's one reason Markaudio have me lurking around: to create a reasonable number of easy-to-build designs to cover a decent number of bases. They aren't necessarily meant as 'the last word' (assuming that was even possible) although they're all at the very least good performers within that context of what they are.
As a brief note -there is no Super Pensil for the MA200 -just a pensil.
No definite guide as far as I know, since this always comes down to context: what you're trying to achieve, what the rest of the system is, how much room you have etc. That's one reason Markaudio have me lurking around: to create a reasonable number of easy-to-build designs to cover a decent number of bases. They aren't necessarily meant as 'the last word' (assuming that was even possible) although they're all at the very least good performers within that context of what they are.
As a brief note -there is no Super Pensil for the MA200 -just a pensil.
Thanks fellas. Totally makes sense. Was just wondering if there were any consistently observed/measured attributes of one cabinet over another, such as some that are mentioned in the designs around tradeoffs of efficiency, power handling, bass response, etc. And those diagrams give a pretty decent idea of which is for what with the notes when available, as surely there is a reason each cabinet exists, other than aesthetic reasons. I'm happy to continue to scour if there isn't (and, for reasons mentioned and echoed by y'all, shouldn't be) a definitive guide to each design.
Of the floor-standing "conventional" (i.e. not a linear quadrapole) options, from what I'm gathering:
The MA200-M Keele aligned EBS vented box would be a good way to go for more powerful amplifiers and deeper bass if you have the room
The Pensil MA200-M-metric is a good all-rounder compromise for performance and typical loudspeaker spacial considerations
The Syncerus Antiquus MA200M MLTL is similar to the Pensil, maybe a bit taller and with slightly more restricted LF response
The MA200-M-CHN50 MTM is for D'Appolito/MTM fans/single-driver skeptics who also have more budget
Probably insultingly reductive to the fine work you both have done in both designing and offering these plans and I apologize as such 🙂 Just trying to answer the questions of, if any cabinet plan could be selected (for someone with a small/midsize-room who listens to dynamic music and has amp power to spare, though may want to experiment with tubes in the future), which would be the sweet spot for all things considered. And, other than being able to somehow listen to them all, how would one make this decision. Also, it is not lost on me that the name of this forum has the acronym "DIY" in it, so feel free to tell me to do the research and figure it out myself haha 🙂
Would it not be possible to include a Super Pensil-style brace in the cabinet of the Pensil, or is that just plain silliness?
Of the floor-standing "conventional" (i.e. not a linear quadrapole) options, from what I'm gathering:
The MA200-M Keele aligned EBS vented box would be a good way to go for more powerful amplifiers and deeper bass if you have the room
The Pensil MA200-M-metric is a good all-rounder compromise for performance and typical loudspeaker spacial considerations
The Syncerus Antiquus MA200M MLTL is similar to the Pensil, maybe a bit taller and with slightly more restricted LF response
The MA200-M-CHN50 MTM is for D'Appolito/MTM fans/single-driver skeptics who also have more budget
Probably insultingly reductive to the fine work you both have done in both designing and offering these plans and I apologize as such 🙂 Just trying to answer the questions of, if any cabinet plan could be selected (for someone with a small/midsize-room who listens to dynamic music and has amp power to spare, though may want to experiment with tubes in the future), which would be the sweet spot for all things considered. And, other than being able to somehow listen to them all, how would one make this decision. Also, it is not lost on me that the name of this forum has the acronym "DIY" in it, so feel free to tell me to do the research and figure it out myself haha 🙂
Would it not be possible to include a Super Pensil-style brace in the cabinet of the Pensil, or is that just plain silliness?
The Super Pensil isn't a brace, it's a different enclosure. The longitudinal bracing is recommended (assumed to be present) for all the pensil enclosures; its (minimal) effects on volume are accounted for (incorporated into) the alignments from the outset, & simpler variations assumed present in most of the others too.
Going through the above quickly, as it's 23:51 here & counting 😉
Going through the above quickly, as it's 23:51 here & counting 😉
Actually meant for use either with the EQ Don intended, or for use close to boundaries / preferably in corners where the loading evens out without requiring additional correction
To a point a jack-of-all-trades enclosure trading outright extension for some additional [certain types of] pro-audio output through the mid & upper bass, with a relatively unreactive impedance load making it easier to drive / more consistent for amplifiers with a high output impedance
Actually shorter than the pensil (see the dimensions in the sketches), and with significantly more LF extension, but less output through the mid & upper bass and a more reactive (conventional) impedance rather than the TL style load of the pensils
More budget, yes. For 'skeptics', no. 'Belief' or otherwise isn't really a factor -it's essentially just a take on traditional '50s - '60s style 2-ways in terms of its general driver selection & filtering. Bigger speaker for bigger spaces, more power handling, more dynamic range, higher practical sensitivity. It crosses < 1 wavelength spacing between the main units, so the radiation pattern isn't quite as distinctive as many MTMs, although it does retain a little of that.
As regards bracing, while it’s been years since I’ve built any of Scott’s or Dave’s enclosures, I seem to remember a boilerplate comment that “bracing not shown, but highly recommended”? While many of the manifold / Olson labyrinth inspired designs are inherently very well braced - at least laterally - I don’t see how strategic bracing in both directions could hurt anything other than the material budget or your wrists and elbows while operating the power tools of your choice. 😉
My own fabrications always included lots of holes of several sizes and were frequently either interlocked horizontally and vertically, or at least had a few lateral stubs. As most of the latter builds were of MLTL variants, they had longitudinal braces that coupled front/back/ top and bottom.
My own fabrications always included lots of holes of several sizes and were frequently either interlocked horizontally and vertically, or at least had a few lateral stubs. As most of the latter builds were of MLTL variants, they had longitudinal braces that coupled front/back/ top and bottom.
Value your time. Forget fostex FL driver and a neuter Enabl ( I call it disabl ) process. Just bin or sell the drivers. Get Lowther , Jbl FL driver or Rehdeko. Dig the ditches , fake an accident to get insurance money and buy the quality. There is no magic bullet in this business. If it were it would be found long time ago.
Note: limmono is often disdanful, the journey is as important as the destination.
And IIRC he found that EnABL brought more detail out in his Lowthers than his taste allowed.
I very much follow some sage advice i got in the late ‘70s. A hifi is an information processing system. You want to start with as much information as you can (source: player and recording) and then lose as little as possible getting to your ear. I find that EnABL allows the driver to lose less information.
dave
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It did process an avalanche of information which I could not process - I agree 🙂 I'm willing to make amends for my disdain regarding Fostex. My ( past ) ears and my opinion YMMW. I believe in sacrifice. You can't have your cake and eat it and you can't expect that the top of the line can be had for a price of burger if you only get the secret of a shortcut to it.
You probably have more chance of earning your first million of $ based on YouTube advice with 5 million views already.
You probably have more chance of earning your first million of $ based on YouTube advice with 5 million views already.
I mean, I'm having a great time 🙂 But yes indeed, there is no magic bullet. But, if I know anything about audiophilia it'sthat it is always a journey, and that's what can make it fun and rewarding...especially thanks to generous knowledge and experience sharing through sites like this 🙂 It's one thing listening to music, and another listening to it knowing what you're hearing is the triumph of special attention, effort and teamwork. This is all to say, thanks to everyone who's contributed to my ongoing journey into this exciting new DIY world.
And, just in time for me to report that Madisound has the MA200s back in stock, and my copper pair is on the way! Will give 'em a week in gentle break-in before making any critical observations, though I haven't been this excited in a while for a $300ish audio upgrade in a while.
Thanks a ton for the additional explanation of enclosure types @Scottmoose I owe you a beer/coffee/both for all of your efforts (DM me your paypal, haha), which I'm sure many others noobs like me will benefit from too. And whoops, my bad...clearly my mm>inch conversions forgot to carry the 1 😉 Sounds like the Pensil with the internal bracing will be the way to go, since it sounds like that bracing was accounted for with the original designs as you and @chrisb mentioned. And will likely EnABL them in good time as well, if for no other reason than it looks cool, but probably for better reasons than just that.