Pano, are you sure that this conclusion (aka "Most people could not tell the difference") is correct?
From the posts in the thread you've linked, it seems that most of the responders thought they could detect a difference (quite small though) but were not able to correctly identify the different ....err.... "cables" .
This is the key point. Unless the difference can be measured all that is left are subjective anecdotes. Markw4 may prefer flavour A and somebody else may prefer flavour B. Neither is more correct than the other.
@bohork2610, Its not necessarily about preference. There is another type of perceptual test called a discrimination test. Its a question of whether someone can hear a difference or not. If someone prefers one thing as compared to another thing is a separate question and requires a different type of test.
This is interesting (and not unexpected for those of us who have in previous lives fought to meet IMD specs on RF connectors where the plating really matters even as low as 1GHz (which the old hand RF guys used to refer to as 'DC')). BUT it's measurable and therefore must be audible to those who can hear noise floor modulation and such like?
Well, you are the one frequenting various threads claiming that something you happen to be using sounds better.
Sometimes I only hear that something sounds different. If I want to know if its better I usually call upon my listening panel to get a range of opinions about that. If there is substantial agreement among the panel, I may provisionally deem it 'better.'
Other times a difference is less subtle and which is 'better' is closer to obvious. For example, less THD from .1% to .001% is obvious to me. Maybe not to someone else.
Other times a difference is less subtle and which is 'better' is closer to obvious. For example, less THD from .1% to .001% is obvious to me. Maybe not to someone else.
Still unless you measure there is no way of telling that what your panel found to be better is actually better. Not just another form of distortion.
The question is what constitutes a measurement. Only an electrical instrument? A well trained listening panel? Some distortions are complex, time-variant and so on. IME a listening panel may be needed.
Please elaborate, how do you train to listen distortions that are complex, time-variant and so on? How can you know they exist in the sound you are listening if you cannot measure them?
Yes I am, it's right there in the thread. Between mud, potato, wire and original, the guesses were no better than random for all but two people.
Yes, the results hard to believe and that certainly was not my goal in test, but the results were clear, even if the guesses were not. 😉
Mind you, not everything said here is about you. Just search the number of posts regarding cables distortions and components with magnetic elements, and compare to the number of posts regarding hysteresis distortions in tubes OPT.
Very generic words which add nothing here.
NOBODY showed any relation between magnetic Hysteresis and singlegrainness so just waste of time.
Typical words and "ideas" used when there is NOTHING useful to add son random combinations of letters and words are used to fill empty space.
Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum instead, at lest it has a long and distinguished career filling empty space with meaningless text:
It is interesting watching a discussion by people who do not build 10e6 dollar objects using 7 nines dead soft materials... discussing such.
Today I had to explain to some, how bending 7 nines dead soft aluminum will work harden it and kill both electrical and thermal conductivity (thermal conductivity being the actual application, an non-helium based thermal conduction cooling of superconductors using cryo-coolers..)
I clearly missed the magnetic hysteresis/single grain mention, as I would have had something to say..
John
Today I had to explain to some, how bending 7 nines dead soft aluminum will work harden it and kill both electrical and thermal conductivity (thermal conductivity being the actual application, an non-helium based thermal conduction cooling of superconductors using cryo-coolers..)
I clearly missed the magnetic hysteresis/single grain mention, as I would have had something to say..
John
Easy: does the "Physics" word ring a bell?
It describes the World around us VERY well, including trivial/simple problems such as copper wires, to any amount of 9´s or 0´s you wan to extend it to.
In any case it´s irrelevant to use many, beyond what goes below noise floor or hearing perception ... what is relevant in Audio.
As to price, please show ONE Physics Law or calculation which includes it as a Parameter or Variable.
I am constantly surprised at the depth of silliness some people sink to, just to "say something".
Your misuse of supposed "Scientific Notation" makes it doubly silly.
Sorry, should have written "2^1" silly 😉
Juan Fahey is gently pulling the leg of those who are going too deep into wires.
Basically he is agreeing with you that the wire quality and purity does not have a very significant effect on the sound, compared to other sources of noise in an audio circuit.
Somebody building a superconductor system with super low temperature cooling has a much different set of parameters, including noise levels, which are not needed in an audio circuit.
This is like a poster who was arguing about LM1875 at 250 kHz, until I asked him if it was possible for us to hear it...
Then the tube light started glowing...
Here we say tube light for a slow witted person, the old ones with starters and chokes would not come on immediately. They would blink, flicker and then come on...
If somebody does not quickly get the meaning of a simple concept, we call them tube light!
Basically he is agreeing with you that the wire quality and purity does not have a very significant effect on the sound, compared to other sources of noise in an audio circuit.
Somebody building a superconductor system with super low temperature cooling has a much different set of parameters, including noise levels, which are not needed in an audio circuit.
This is like a poster who was arguing about LM1875 at 250 kHz, until I asked him if it was possible for us to hear it...
Then the tube light started glowing...
Here we say tube light for a slow witted person, the old ones with starters and chokes would not come on immediately. They would blink, flicker and then come on...
If somebody does not quickly get the meaning of a simple concept, we call them tube light!
Maybe somebody did a test on chip amps in liquid nitrogen?
How many of us can use a liquid nitrogen system?
How many can handle it?
What about the cooling and insulation needed?
Energy cost and noise from that source interfering with your audio?
This is like that. A concept which is not a real life solution, a specialized lab solution.
By the way, there are computer overclockers who seem to use refrigerant based heat sinks to boost computer performance, mainly for gaming. The chilling system is bigger than the computer.
How many of us can use a liquid nitrogen system?
How many can handle it?
What about the cooling and insulation needed?
Energy cost and noise from that source interfering with your audio?
This is like that. A concept which is not a real life solution, a specialized lab solution.
By the way, there are computer overclockers who seem to use refrigerant based heat sinks to boost computer performance, mainly for gaming. The chilling system is bigger than the computer.
I have a feeling they saw a picture of the Cray-2 and thought 'I want a piece of that. Not that piece, the other.'