Dear AllenB,
thank you for your sketch, very clear. I was thinking about something like in the sketch below:
Each speaker is composed by four straight panels:
This way I will use the room as part of the horn because:
Is my explanation clear? Has anyone tried anything like this? I though about something easy to be built.
do you think it is worth building something like this?
How much could cost to ask anyone of you to design it, or as I would prefer, help me designing it?
Thanks!
thank you for your sketch, very clear. I was thinking about something like in the sketch below:
Each speaker is composed by four straight panels:
- the front rectangular baffle (that is partially used for the smaller part of the horn, partially for the bigger one;
- two triangular baffle that have at the same time the purpose of creating a "pyramid-like" small horn with the front baffle, a dual bigger horn with the vertical walls of the corner, and bracing the front baffle;
- one triangular deflector on the corner of the ceiling.
This way I will use the room as part of the horn because:
- the floor is part of the speaker as it reflects the sound to the "split" second part of the horn;
- vertical walls are part of the sound as they are part of the "split" second part of the horn;
- ceiling thanks to the deflector is part of the third part of the horn together with side walls.
Is my explanation clear? Has anyone tried anything like this? I though about something easy to be built.
do you think it is worth building something like this?
How much could cost to ask anyone of you to design it, or as I would prefer, help me designing it?
Thanks!
Indeed! Wound up with refurbed McIntosh as most I could afford.
Bigger, lowest WL desired/pi = effective diameter.
Because IME with my typical conical [corner] horn loading the ceiling dispersion sounded better overall to me and others than floor loading and much more recently with folks preferring top loading BIB horns to its floor variants.
In retrospect though, both my homes are 'floating' floor construction, so if one has the nowadays more common poured concrete pad or truss beam construction, then this may not hold true, so as always, caveat emptor, YMMV, etc., applies.
That said, a local that was a DIYer for awhile many years ago here found that this 7pi? JBL 2226 corner floor loaded sub combined with a small Fostex FE108EZ? if available circa 2000 in a small sealed cab mounted up the corner above it [mono system] that when seated on axis at ? distance, his wife's [3rd chair Atlanta Symphony back then, 1st chair now] recorded violin practice was so close to her actual at home practice that even he, she? had a hard time distinguishing the difference, so at least at the time it was the 'end of the road' for their audio nirvana quest.
You're welcome!
No, and in dim retrospect his verbal description indicated he only made/used the corner bass horn part and reshaped it to a wider/lower one at that: 7 Pi speaker images
No, and in dim retrospect his verbal description indicated he only made/used the corner bass horn part and reshaped it to a wider/lower one at that: 7 Pi speaker images
So you say the sound goes down to the floor then up to the ceiling and out into the room, also the driver at the start is a little offset from the start of the horn? If so then I think I can see it.
I wouldn't mind guiding you where I can. Do you know where you're going to start?
Thanks, I was searching on their site but I had no luck finding those photos.
So all speakers are front horn loaded and lows are bass reflex plus front (corner) loaded.
I don't think to be able to build something similar without external help, but are there diy-available designs based on the concept of this speaker?
Yes, it is exactly as you described. From what I read, the benefit is that there are no parallel surfaces for resonant waves, it seems quite simple to build because there are only four panels, the hard part for me is design it!
Thank you very much! I would like to know what speaker you would suggest for this kind of project.
Will something like the Alpair 10.3 be enough for it, or it is suggested to go towards bigger speakers?
I start proposing here an hornresp file to work on it, based on the Alpair 10.3. Please look at record n°2.
It is needed to change the extension from txt to dat, because the forum doesn't allow me to upload dat files.
Ever have a vacous phone call you can't hang-up on?
("Yeah...uh-huh...is that right? Yeah you're right I'm sorry...no-kidding...really?...ok...yup...um-hmmm...that's funny...uh-huh...yeah...um-hmmm...um-hmmm...yep...yeah...")
Imported & made a bunch screens pretty-much w/o passing a single thought.
("Yeah...uh-huh...is that right? Yeah you're right I'm sorry...no-kidding...really?...ok...yup...um-hmmm...that's funny...uh-huh...yeah...um-hmmm...um-hmmm...yep...yeah...")
Imported & made a bunch screens pretty-much w/o passing a single thought.
Attachments
Thank you for the plots grindstone.
Has anyone some guidelines based on what I posted to improve the system?
Has anyone some guidelines based on what I posted to improve the system?
Yesterday evening I've found some posts of Wayne Parham, the owner of "pi" speakers, and his suggestions on this forum:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/corner-loaded-louspeakers.141813/post-1795705
And some threads on corner horns:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/corner-horn-imaging-faq.248444/
I will try to learn something more from those.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/corner-loaded-louspeakers.141813/post-1795705
And some threads on corner horns:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/corner-horn-imaging-faq.248444/
I will try to learn something more from those.
Such as ? I mean your plan was to close a corner with a panel at 45 deg and we've posted some of our 'adventures' in corner [TL/horn] loading, but to date you've only asked more questions, so till you have another plan there's nothing to potentially 'improve'.
Hi GM, not really. I've never proposed to close a corner with a panel at 45 deg:
On post #41 I've proposed a folded horn (ceiling-floor-ceiling) with the speaker offset at 1/3rd of its lenght.
On post #45 I've explained how I've imaginated it.
On post #47 I've attached a basilary hornresp file of what the horn should be.
Am I missing something that I'd need to do?
On post #41 I've proposed a folded horn (ceiling-floor-ceiling) with the speaker offset at 1/3rd of its lenght.
On post #45 I've explained how I've imaginated it.
On post #47 I've attached a basilary hornresp file of what the horn should be.
Am I missing something that I'd need to do?
That's not what you were interested in your original post?!
At the time it appeared to me to be just more 'thought experimenting' for technical knowledge's own sake and managed to miss your HR file when I returned to the thread to view Grindstone's post, which at a glance appears to be a ~complete compendium of how your wall/corner horn might be improved, so at this point still see nothing to maybe add without a complete knowledge of your room layout, acoustics, intended app.
That said, missed the 'top view', which if to scale and is a closed off room, then its focal point is much too close to the rear wall and even if heavily damped typically means a 'head in vice' stereo image and moving forward will tend to create a 'hole in the middle', necessitating a derived 3rd channel to blend them through the critical speech BW, i.e. we normally want the image to cross close to the front of us.
At the time it appeared to me to be just more 'thought experimenting' for technical knowledge's own sake and managed to miss your HR file when I returned to the thread to view Grindstone's post, which at a glance appears to be a ~complete compendium of how your wall/corner horn might be improved, so at this point still see nothing to maybe add without a complete knowledge of your room layout, acoustics, intended app.
That said, missed the 'top view', which if to scale and is a closed off room, then its focal point is much too close to the rear wall and even if heavily damped typically means a 'head in vice' stereo image and moving forward will tend to create a 'hole in the middle', necessitating a derived 3rd channel to blend them through the critical speech BW, i.e. we normally want the image to cross close to the front of us.
There are many ways to make this work and I would expect to spend much time optimising it, also working out how to make the bends to reduce reflection. I'm working within hornresp's plane wave limitations, I'd probably look at it in more depth but for a bass BLH the wavefront details probably won't matter so much.
zintolo, I didn't look at your horn example as it didn't work with my version of hornresp. For the purposes of these posts I don't consider the horn details to be the primary focus just yet, and I've made one up. If you discover a horn configuration that works with the Alpair better than this then it can be adapted like I'm about to show.
zintolo, I didn't look at your horn example as it didn't work with my version of hornresp. For the purposes of these posts I don't consider the horn details to be the primary focus just yet, and I've made one up. If you discover a horn configuration that works with the Alpair better than this then it can be adapted like I'm about to show.
I used CAD to make a cross section of the expansion of the room corner (EDIT: equivalent to if it were round for hornresp), and shown this here in blue.
I chose a mouth size that is a portion of a wavelength below the vocal range.. although as you continue to model this you'll find it isn't the only significant point in fitting the horn.. the shape of the room expansion does a bit of the talking. The room is not necessarily the correct termination for each horn type, so I have set hornresp for eighth space loading which should approximate the difference as you continue to model.
The first red line is meant to approximate the distance down to the floor and back toward the corner, and the next red line would be where the ceiling part of the horn cuts in.
I chose a mouth size that is a portion of a wavelength below the vocal range.. although as you continue to model this you'll find it isn't the only significant point in fitting the horn.. the shape of the room expansion does a bit of the talking. The room is not necessarily the correct termination for each horn type, so I have set hornresp for eighth space loading which should approximate the difference as you continue to model.
The first red line is meant to approximate the distance down to the floor and back toward the corner, and the next red line would be where the ceiling part of the horn cuts in.
I didn't necessarily expect the length to be the best option and was going to try one less fold (or one more)... but this seemed an OK place to start. I also didn't see much in changing the compression ratio from 1:1 to 2:1, you may have a preference there.
Yes, at the beginning it was just for the sake of understanding if it is a practicable approach, then it evolved a bit to the new sketch.
But I still remain very rudimental in knowledge and experience.
Thanks, I will report measures in scale and evaluate to move the speakers to the shorter wall if needed.
Thanks for the three posts AllenB, I will try your specifications in HR and see what it happens, then try your suggestion to shorten or prolong the duct.
I don't have preferences because I'm absolutely new to speaker design, and I just listened to few speakers. The idea of using the corner of the house came because I wanted to try bigger horn in a simpler way, and walls seemed the most obvious way.
I will update you, please be patient with my most probably wrong assumptions or irrealistic deviations.
Roberto