Just to offer a little personal experience to this: Silver works great, IF it is pure and is broken in before installation. IF NOT, it may not be worth your while.
Prune said:
Air dielectric is great... except... it doesn't sound good. The conductors will sulfidize and oxidize, the latter being less problematic. This can be reduced by sealing the ends of the tube, if you're using an 'air tube'. But I've never found air dielectrics to be practical or sound very good.
Silver doesn't "sulfidize" under normal conditions. The tarnishing sulfides you often see on silver objects is due to the copper content in sterling silver reacting with sulfur. Fine silver or better mainly oxidizes.
In any case, the dielectric that most matters is that between the two conductors, as that's what affects the capacitance. In my case (I'm using the Venhaus recipe), most of that is air, especially if you use a very thin teflon tube like I did. On the outside I wrapped with three layers of teflon tape, and I'm certain that it will take years for any appreciable oxidation to form.
Getting uninsulated silver makes sense because of cost. You think air sounds bad vs teflon? I bet that you cannot in a blind test hear the difference between teflon-coated silver wire vs. bare one in the same cable configuration. And I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is - $200 says you can't do it. If you happen to visit the NorthWest, bring cables and call me up.
In any case, the dielectric that most matters is that between the two conductors, as that's what affects the capacitance. In my case (I'm using the Venhaus recipe), most of that is air, especially if you use a very thin teflon tube like I did. On the outside I wrapped with three layers of teflon tape, and I'm certain that it will take years for any appreciable oxidation to form.
Getting uninsulated silver makes sense because of cost. You think air sounds bad vs teflon? I bet that you cannot in a blind test hear the difference between teflon-coated silver wire vs. bare one in the same cable configuration. And I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is - $200 says you can't do it. If you happen to visit the NorthWest, bring cables and call me up.
Prune said:
Let's say you can't tell the differenc in DBT, but you can tell the difference when doing it in your usual way of listening. Then what, how good is your bet? 😉
As long as he doesn't know which cable is actually plugged in, my bet is good. Otherwise what's the point of the bet -- if he can see which cable is being used, obviously the outcome is predetermined -- he knows which one it is and will say so (even if he didn't hear a difference) to get the money.
I was rather asking what such bet proves; as it really proves nothing to me. We are not listening to cables under DBT conditions normally, but in the comfort of our listenig chair. I don't care if DBT shows the difference or not, as long as I perceive such difference under other circumstances I'll be using silver wires, as they sound better (to me).
BTW, I had some silver wire which sounded considerably worse than a regular magnet wire (even 2" of it, in an amp). So what I see, doesn't always determine the outcome for my preferrences.
BTW, I had some silver wire which sounded considerably worse than a regular magnet wire (even 2" of it, in an amp). So what I see, doesn't always determine the outcome for my preferrences.
That would be a sucker bet. Sighted non-bias controlled listening tells you nothing about actual differences, since they exist in the eyes of the beholder.
Real difference is discernible with the ears and only with the ears.
Me too. The vendor claimed 5N and very probably that's what it is but all the same it sucks big time no matter how much broken in. The silver hookup wire from DH labs otoh sounds very nice.
Prune said:
Silver does pick up sulfides out of the air, you get more or less of that dependent upon air quality.
I'm not much of a gambler. I can tell the difference between different sorts of silver in my rig, with my listening test methodology, I don't use blind testing, as it is a headache and a half. I find that it's much better, when trying variants such as insulated/non-insulated conductors and whatnot with the same base design, that I relax, do a few swaps casually over the course of a week or two, and note what I hear, then see if my beta-testers come up with similar conclusions. That's plenty of confirmation, as far as I'm concerned, and the two results have a high occurrence of coincidence.
Cables are a pain in the ***, and the devil's in the details.
Fair enough. But imagine you couldn't hear absolutely no difference between various insulators or conductors. And not even between silver and copper. Or between capacitors, resistors and even whole units such as amps and cd players.
Wouldn't you then be very suspicious of any super hearing abilities claims. I know i would. And i would insist on proof. And the more difficult the proof would be to furnish, the more comfortable i would feel in my denial. I'd also become part of a support group which debunks audio myths.
Them's fightin' words, analog_sa! 
Turning your argument around, if I was so full of myself as to think I had superior hearing to all those pesky objectivists, then I too might fancy that I could discern all sorts of fine details and aural signatures of resistors and wire. The biggest fool is the man that fools himself.
I think it's quite telling that the tactic you choose was to attack my hearing.
Turning your argument around, if I was so full of myself as to think I had superior hearing to all those pesky objectivists, then I too might fancy that I could discern all sorts of fine details and aural signatures of resistors and wire. The biggest fool is the man that fools himself.
I think it's quite telling that the tactic you choose was to attack my hearing.
Prune, I disagree. My favorate resistor costs 10 cents American, can't you afford that much? The important thing about silver wire is that it sounds different than copper wire. It just does. Tough nuts!
Certainly not yours. You seem to be genuinely interested and to keep an open mind. Or have i misinterpreted your words?
Listening is not easy. It requires patience and concentration. Some of the objectivists i know won't be caught dead listening to cables, let alone owing silver wire.
We have found that Resista resistors work very well for even the highest level audio electronics.
I'llSteve Eddy[/i] Here! Here! Or should that be "Hear! Hear!"? :) se[/QUOTE] Well said:
to that. ** And I don't even like beer.
