It Feels Nice To Be Missed......
"What's happened to ERIC, talking about sleeping. Is that all he does now? "
Yeah, I've been sleeping at the GF's place lately, and spending time on refining and defining and sonically assessing a revoloutionary and interesting new gadget that I am developing, so sorry, I have less time than usual to spend with my friends at DIY. 🙂 .
I have not had a good play with interconnects for years, so I am a little out of practice here, and besides the 'Sonic Tonic' thingies I have, make the system sound good regardless of cables etc.
This bit of magic makes any system jump out of its skin, and the usual sonic flavours attributal to cables and dielectrics etc become quite irellevant.
I am now getting way better depth and side to side imaging (way out past the speakers) than I have ever had or heard previously,
and an overall 'flavourless' sound of great detail that takes the system straight back to the master tape, and perfectly revealing of recording and mixdown nuances.
Close mic'd sounds close mic'd, distance mic'd sounds distance mic'd, IMD is non existant, and I keep catching myself tapping my feet on just about any record.
This weekend I get to try my second version on a friends live PA and instruments and mics, and see (hear) what we get - I already know it will be good.
So, you see, with this development I don't really care about cables any more, and basically figure that esoteric cables are a time and money waster.
Eric / - You can polish a turd after all.
"What's happened to ERIC, talking about sleeping. Is that all he does now? "
Yeah, I've been sleeping at the GF's place lately, and spending time on refining and defining and sonically assessing a revoloutionary and interesting new gadget that I am developing, so sorry, I have less time than usual to spend with my friends at DIY. 🙂 .
I have not had a good play with interconnects for years, so I am a little out of practice here, and besides the 'Sonic Tonic' thingies I have, make the system sound good regardless of cables etc.
This bit of magic makes any system jump out of its skin, and the usual sonic flavours attributal to cables and dielectrics etc become quite irellevant.
I am now getting way better depth and side to side imaging (way out past the speakers) than I have ever had or heard previously,
and an overall 'flavourless' sound of great detail that takes the system straight back to the master tape, and perfectly revealing of recording and mixdown nuances.
Close mic'd sounds close mic'd, distance mic'd sounds distance mic'd, IMD is non existant, and I keep catching myself tapping my feet on just about any record.
This weekend I get to try my second version on a friends live PA and instruments and mics, and see (hear) what we get - I already know it will be good.
So, you see, with this development I don't really care about cables any more, and basically figure that esoteric cables are a time and money waster.
Eric / - You can polish a turd after all.
IT FEELS NICE TO BE RIGHT .
Hi,
Howdy Eric,
Why not take it a step further since you feel confident you have everything else right?
The magic wand,😉
Hi,
Howdy Eric,
Why not take it a step further since you feel confident you have everything else right?
The magic wand,😉
Re: WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...
Hi Frank,
I appreciate your efforts at trying to smooth things over, but the vast majority of what has been said here is not in any way subjective, nor has it had much to do with listening tests etc.
The crux of the matter was over halting or delaying the onset of black copper oxide on wires, which anyone can readily *see* for themselves (if and when it occurs). The polished copper I recommended will immediately show the onset of even a thin formation of oxide.
Whilst I fully agree that "the ear is the ultimate measurement tool", it doesn't really enter into this recent discussion.
Anyone like Niclas (hopefully!) can try out the simple methods for themselves, whereupon they will appreciate that what I said does work (to differing degrees, as I carefully pointed out) in practice, irrespective of any relevant or irrelevant theories which may, or may not, suggest that it cannot!🙂
Regards,
fdegrove said:
Hi Frank,
I appreciate your efforts at trying to smooth things over, but the vast majority of what has been said here is not in any way subjective, nor has it had much to do with listening tests etc.
The crux of the matter was over halting or delaying the onset of black copper oxide on wires, which anyone can readily *see* for themselves (if and when it occurs). The polished copper I recommended will immediately show the onset of even a thin formation of oxide.
Whilst I fully agree that "the ear is the ultimate measurement tool", it doesn't really enter into this recent discussion.
Anyone like Niclas (hopefully!) can try out the simple methods for themselves, whereupon they will appreciate that what I said does work (to differing degrees, as I carefully pointed out) in practice, irrespective of any relevant or irrelevant theories which may, or may not, suggest that it cannot!🙂
Regards,
I Can't Say What It Is Yet, But It Is Revoloutionary.
Hi Frank.
For now I don't see the need to go overboard on interconnects while I get the physical implementation of this invention right.
More detailed cables ought bring in more detail and resoloution, but in this context, the sonic flavour of differing conductors and dielectrics I expect will hardly alter from what I now have.
At will, I am altering the whole set of variables of IMD and other sonic characters, and indeed at will, I can predictably introduce other flavours, and the overall resultant is just plain damm good.
I am speaking in levels far above of what is current SOTA, and when I reveal this thing, all you guys are going to do a really big double take, you'll scratch your heads, and you'll all say 'What The .... ?".
You'll find out that what you thought you were hearing is not quite the case, and you'll have a different view of life, the universe and everything, and the WAF is ultimate.
Eric / - The Trendsetter.
Hi Frank.
For now I don't see the need to go overboard on interconnects while I get the physical implementation of this invention right.
More detailed cables ought bring in more detail and resoloution, but in this context, the sonic flavour of differing conductors and dielectrics I expect will hardly alter from what I now have.
At will, I am altering the whole set of variables of IMD and other sonic characters, and indeed at will, I can predictably introduce other flavours, and the overall resultant is just plain damm good.
I am speaking in levels far above of what is current SOTA, and when I reveal this thing, all you guys are going to do a really big double take, you'll scratch your heads, and you'll all say 'What The .... ?".
You'll find out that what you thought you were hearing is not quite the case, and you'll have a different view of life, the universe and everything, and the WAF is ultimate.
Eric / - The Trendsetter.
Re: IT FEELS NICE TO BE RIGHT .
My God Frank,
Eric's finally found Nirvana, so no wonder he has been so quiet lately!
Hell be saying next that he doesn't even care about his solder, although I don't really believe that.
Eric,
Good to hear you are still OK and haven't been banned or anything for being a naughty boy!🙂
Far be it from me to tell any tales, but Frank has been making smutty suggestions about your sleeping habits again.
Oops, off topic.
Regards,
fdegrove said:
My God Frank,
Eric's finally found Nirvana, so no wonder he has been so quiet lately!
Hell be saying next that he doesn't even care about his solder, although I don't really believe that.
Eric,
Good to hear you are still OK and haven't been banned or anything for being a naughty boy!🙂
Far be it from me to tell any tales, but Frank has been making smutty suggestions about your sleeping habits again.
Oops, off topic.
Regards,
Getting It...
Hi Bob.
Yeah, I caught those comments from Frank.
I find those getting the least are those talking about it the most.
Eric.
Hi Bob.
Yeah, I caught those comments from Frank.
I find those getting the least are those talking about it the most.
Eric.
You Hear It Over The Phone...
Hi Frank, yes it does manifest as a sonic magic wand, and no I can't reveal it on this forum, well not yet.
Weren't we going to have a phone chat again sometime ?.
If you phone me, I can demonstrate the effect I speak of.
Until then you will just have to embroil in mystery. 😉
Eric.
Hi Frank, yes it does manifest as a sonic magic wand, and no I can't reveal it on this forum, well not yet.
Weren't we going to have a phone chat again sometime ?.
If you phone me, I can demonstrate the effect I speak of.
Until then you will just have to embroil in mystery. 😉
Eric.
Re: Getting It...
I couldn't agree more.
In my experience, there are "Those who do it and don't talk about it" & " Those who talk about it and don't do it" 😎
Anyway he's like a rash, all over this Forum.
Everywhere I go to 'duck the flack', Frank's just beaten me to it!
Regards,
mrfeedback said:
I couldn't agree more.
In my experience, there are "Those who do it and don't talk about it" & " Those who talk about it and don't do it" 😎
Anyway he's like a rash, all over this Forum.
Everywhere I go to 'duck the flack', Frank's just beaten me to it!
Regards,
"Will do in a couple of days."
I look forward to that.
Best to arrange a suitable time by email I reckon - so I can get off the net first.
Eric.
I look forward to that.
Best to arrange a suitable time by email I reckon - so I can get off the net first.
Eric.
[Pedant]
Wire foundry? Foundry is where the metal is cast, not drawn 🙂
Tim (has a home foundry, and has toured the Essex wire plant in Rockford, IL) 😀
[/Pedant] 😛
Wire foundry? Foundry is where the metal is cast, not drawn 🙂
Tim (has a home foundry, and has toured the Essex wire plant in Rockford, IL) 😀
[/Pedant] 😛
Earlier I said the topic wasstappvargen said:Per-Anders:
I'm in need of a couple of your Toroid transformers again, so maybe you can tell me your opinion on the matter later.
Time for me to hit the sheets.
Good Night!
/Niclas
, now it's even more, time call the 
Niclas, you promised me not to use my transformers to a Zen amp. Have you been a naughty boy now?
It's not good for my reputation if my stuff 
goes to Pass stuff.
I have a couple of these items left. Come back after the weekend.
Oops...
Per-Anders:
... But the others (transformers) that I need are for a gainclone, so that must maintain the fragile cosmic balance in our universe!After having read Peter Daniels: "This is not just another gainclone" thread my curiosity as to whether somthing so simple and cheap can sound great (or O.K at least) is perked. I just have to try it out!
/Niclas
Per-Anders:
... But the others (transformers) that I need are for a gainclone, so that must maintain the fragile cosmic balance in our universe!After having read Peter Daniels: "This is not just another gainclone" thread my curiosity as to whether somthing so simple and cheap can sound great (or O.K at least) is perked. I just have to try it out!
/Niclas
Hi Niclas,
No need for any thanks as far as I am concerned and you are very welcome. I am just very sorry that such an unneccessary furore developed.
Anyway, now that it's died down a little, I thought that a bit more info might be of some help to you.
Don't forget that my choice of using the mineral oil was the last resort, and although I am very familiar with Cramolin (Pro-Gold), I cannot vouch for all other contact cleaners/lubricants.
However, common-sense would indicate that if such a cleaner is effective, (unless the directions state that it must be subsequently removed, perhaps if say it is some corrosive/acid based product, which, incidentally, I have never seen) it is most unlikely that it will have any adverse effect on wires nor will it *accelerate* any future tarnishing, as has been suggested.
Cramolin is not currently available under this trade name (which dates back many years) to save you any unnecessary searching, but Pro-Gold and some other products from Caig (the Cramolin makers) is effectively the same product, although maybe the dilution 'strength' varies somewhat.
Everywhere I mention "Cramolin" please read "Pro-Gold" or whatever, as due to long-standing habits, I cannot get used to calling it anything else (much like football "Squads" which to me is a military term, whereas I grew up with the word "Teams" which still seems to me to be more friendly)
I have been advised by Caig that the effective 'ingredients' are the same almost throughout their range (of similar products), but more recently they are packaged in differing 'concentrations' and dissolved in different 'carriers' to suit various applications. They also have more descriptive and "user-attractive" names, no doubt thanks to Caig's Marketing Department.
It is well worth getting some of this material, which is quite special compared with *all* other similar metal treatments, as it will also keep all manner of electrical items functioning at their best, and in fact its use is almost unlimited in the electronics field.
It may seem initially expensive, but as only minute amounts are needed each time, it goes a helluva long way.
In fact, unlike other similar products, the makers advise that you apply the *minimum* possible, and wipe off any excess material applied.
Also, whilst I would always suggest that you carefully read *all* instructions relating to any such materials (for safety), never be deterred from trying something out which may not be specifically designed for your intended purpose.
As I said before, I take no credit for the original idea of using Cramolin on wires, but I simply carried out a test for myself, and carefully considered the results.
Many years ago, I worked as a manufacturing jeweller/silversmith, and I still had some small pieces of very thin gold solder about one inch square to hand, which were then over 20 yrs old.
Normally, pure gold will never tarnish (even in some horrendous environments) but gold solder is not pure, and the base metal additives necessary to reduce the melting-point (especially with the lowest melting-point solders which have the most additives) will encourage the formation of oxides/sulphides etc., with the passage of time.
I placed a tiny drop of Cramolin in the centre of one of these slightly tarnished pieces of gold solder, and watched what happened.
Within seconds, the cramolin started creeping across the metal and within a minute or so, the entire piece was covered, and when I wiped the surface clean of the material, it was as if it was brand new!😎
Clearly, the Cramolin itself couldn't read the instructions on the bottle
, and, because I didn't tell it about any theories that it could only be effective on contacts, it must have used it's imagination (like me, sometimes!) and did a wonderful job of restoring the surface.
Furthermore, I also discovered that you cannot get rid of the product fully (unless perhaps some very strong solvents are used), and even then I believe its effectiveness is not entirely diminished, bearing in mind its "molecular bonding" ability.
If you try to wipe it away (I actually used a wooden coctail stick to scratch 'bare' lines in the Cramolin on the surface of the gold) and immediately, it crept back to heal the scar!
Much later when I obtained some white papers on the product, it transpired that this is an intentional property of Cramolin, as the material can be displaced temporarily when connectors which are close-fitting are mated together.
Incidentally, I also tried the same trick on copper, gilding metal, brass, nickel-silver, silver, aluminium, magnesium alloy, titanium, and several other metals I had lying around, and the results were all the same.😎
This was all about 15/20 years ago, but a few months back, because of my wife's swollen joints in her arthritic fingers, I needed to use some of the 'old skills' to re-size her finger rings, which she could no longer readily take off.
When I found the gold solder, the treated piece was still like new, but some other untreated pieces were more tarnished than ever.
Incidentally, about 20yrs ago I read that Enid Lumley, a (then) quite well-known audio writer, had finally resorted to 'filing off' the surfaces of some materials where she had previously applied some Cramolin, as being the *only* effective method of getting rid of its effect, because she didn't like the resultant sound in her system.
However, before you panic, I am quite certain that what she really didn't like was hearing some other unpleasant solid state artifacts (which were commonplace in the equipment at that time) and these artifacts had been revealed as a result of the Cramolin doing such a good job of unmasking this previously hidden unpleasant sound!
Needless to say, I never read any more about what Enid subsequently thought, but it is a fact that countless audio Gurus, manufacturers, and suppliers, all recommend the product, I have never heard of any other (than Enid's) criticism, and I cannot speak too highly of it.
So you see, no individual who wishes to show off about his supposedly superior technical knowledge (based purely on theory!) will ever convince me I am wrong about such a matter as this, because I have the living proof here to hand!
(God only knows what he would say if he knew that as an impoverished student, during re-assembly I centred a car clutch plate with using a piece of broomhandle with some masking tape wrapped around it, but it was a Sunday [when everywhere then was closed] and anyway the proper tool cost about £50 in those days, and I only needed it once!)
Please do *not* take this as any sort of "U" turn, as what I have said throughout this thread is so, but, as I have also frequently said, the methods I have suggested of delaying oxidation do have varying efficacies.
I really wish you would try out some or all of my suggestions from my own selfish viewpoint, because if you do, no doubt in some time to come you will be posting me again to thank me!
However, I can manage to get by in life without having my ego being 'stroked' in public, possibly unlike some other individuals, so now I really should give you best advice from your position, which I can.
Prior to your latest post, I believed that you had deliberately chosen to use 'bare' copper (and it is a very good choice sonically, incidentally, especially if it is one of the "scoffed at" OFC types) but it is rather a pain in practice for various reasons, and as I also always maintained, there are better ways of making good-sounding interconnects.
If I may offer some advice, now that you have made it clear that you will consider some other ways, I would strongly recommend some slver wire about 0.6 mm diameter, preferably 'factory' coated with a good dielectric like PTFE.
Failing this, use the same 0.6mm bare silver wire, polished and treated with Pro-Gold (I remembered to get the name right this time!) and sleeve it with the suggested semi-rigid PTFE tubing, which will remain good-sounding for a long, long time.
Using soldered connections as opposed to *any* connectors,
will (as I said before) not only save a considerable sum (to be put towards the cost of the silver wire, as you mentioned) but will be much superior sonically, as well.
I hope you will let us know in due course, how you get on.
Regards,
No need for any thanks as far as I am concerned and you are very welcome. I am just very sorry that such an unneccessary furore developed.
Anyway, now that it's died down a little, I thought that a bit more info might be of some help to you.
Don't forget that my choice of using the mineral oil was the last resort, and although I am very familiar with Cramolin (Pro-Gold), I cannot vouch for all other contact cleaners/lubricants.
However, common-sense would indicate that if such a cleaner is effective, (unless the directions state that it must be subsequently removed, perhaps if say it is some corrosive/acid based product, which, incidentally, I have never seen) it is most unlikely that it will have any adverse effect on wires nor will it *accelerate* any future tarnishing, as has been suggested.
Cramolin is not currently available under this trade name (which dates back many years) to save you any unnecessary searching, but Pro-Gold and some other products from Caig (the Cramolin makers) is effectively the same product, although maybe the dilution 'strength' varies somewhat.
Everywhere I mention "Cramolin" please read "Pro-Gold" or whatever, as due to long-standing habits, I cannot get used to calling it anything else (much like football "Squads" which to me is a military term, whereas I grew up with the word "Teams" which still seems to me to be more friendly)
I have been advised by Caig that the effective 'ingredients' are the same almost throughout their range (of similar products), but more recently they are packaged in differing 'concentrations' and dissolved in different 'carriers' to suit various applications. They also have more descriptive and "user-attractive" names, no doubt thanks to Caig's Marketing Department.
It is well worth getting some of this material, which is quite special compared with *all* other similar metal treatments, as it will also keep all manner of electrical items functioning at their best, and in fact its use is almost unlimited in the electronics field.
It may seem initially expensive, but as only minute amounts are needed each time, it goes a helluva long way.
In fact, unlike other similar products, the makers advise that you apply the *minimum* possible, and wipe off any excess material applied.
Also, whilst I would always suggest that you carefully read *all* instructions relating to any such materials (for safety), never be deterred from trying something out which may not be specifically designed for your intended purpose.
As I said before, I take no credit for the original idea of using Cramolin on wires, but I simply carried out a test for myself, and carefully considered the results.
Many years ago, I worked as a manufacturing jeweller/silversmith, and I still had some small pieces of very thin gold solder about one inch square to hand, which were then over 20 yrs old.
Normally, pure gold will never tarnish (even in some horrendous environments) but gold solder is not pure, and the base metal additives necessary to reduce the melting-point (especially with the lowest melting-point solders which have the most additives) will encourage the formation of oxides/sulphides etc., with the passage of time.
I placed a tiny drop of Cramolin in the centre of one of these slightly tarnished pieces of gold solder, and watched what happened.
Within seconds, the cramolin started creeping across the metal and within a minute or so, the entire piece was covered, and when I wiped the surface clean of the material, it was as if it was brand new!😎
Clearly, the Cramolin itself couldn't read the instructions on the bottle
, and, because I didn't tell it about any theories that it could only be effective on contacts, it must have used it's imagination (like me, sometimes!) and did a wonderful job of restoring the surface. Furthermore, I also discovered that you cannot get rid of the product fully (unless perhaps some very strong solvents are used), and even then I believe its effectiveness is not entirely diminished, bearing in mind its "molecular bonding" ability.
If you try to wipe it away (I actually used a wooden coctail stick to scratch 'bare' lines in the Cramolin on the surface of the gold) and immediately, it crept back to heal the scar!
Much later when I obtained some white papers on the product, it transpired that this is an intentional property of Cramolin, as the material can be displaced temporarily when connectors which are close-fitting are mated together.
Incidentally, I also tried the same trick on copper, gilding metal, brass, nickel-silver, silver, aluminium, magnesium alloy, titanium, and several other metals I had lying around, and the results were all the same.😎
This was all about 15/20 years ago, but a few months back, because of my wife's swollen joints in her arthritic fingers, I needed to use some of the 'old skills' to re-size her finger rings, which she could no longer readily take off.
When I found the gold solder, the treated piece was still like new, but some other untreated pieces were more tarnished than ever.
Incidentally, about 20yrs ago I read that Enid Lumley, a (then) quite well-known audio writer, had finally resorted to 'filing off' the surfaces of some materials where she had previously applied some Cramolin, as being the *only* effective method of getting rid of its effect, because she didn't like the resultant sound in her system.
However, before you panic, I am quite certain that what she really didn't like was hearing some other unpleasant solid state artifacts (which were commonplace in the equipment at that time) and these artifacts had been revealed as a result of the Cramolin doing such a good job of unmasking this previously hidden unpleasant sound!
Needless to say, I never read any more about what Enid subsequently thought, but it is a fact that countless audio Gurus, manufacturers, and suppliers, all recommend the product, I have never heard of any other (than Enid's) criticism, and I cannot speak too highly of it.
So you see, no individual who wishes to show off about his supposedly superior technical knowledge (based purely on theory!) will ever convince me I am wrong about such a matter as this, because I have the living proof here to hand!
(God only knows what he would say if he knew that as an impoverished student, during re-assembly I centred a car clutch plate with using a piece of broomhandle with some masking tape wrapped around it, but it was a Sunday [when everywhere then was closed] and anyway the proper tool cost about £50 in those days, and I only needed it once!)
Please do *not* take this as any sort of "U" turn, as what I have said throughout this thread is so, but, as I have also frequently said, the methods I have suggested of delaying oxidation do have varying efficacies.
I really wish you would try out some or all of my suggestions from my own selfish viewpoint, because if you do, no doubt in some time to come you will be posting me again to thank me!
However, I can manage to get by in life without having my ego being 'stroked' in public, possibly unlike some other individuals, so now I really should give you best advice from your position, which I can.
Prior to your latest post, I believed that you had deliberately chosen to use 'bare' copper (and it is a very good choice sonically, incidentally, especially if it is one of the "scoffed at" OFC types) but it is rather a pain in practice for various reasons, and as I also always maintained, there are better ways of making good-sounding interconnects.
If I may offer some advice, now that you have made it clear that you will consider some other ways, I would strongly recommend some slver wire about 0.6 mm diameter, preferably 'factory' coated with a good dielectric like PTFE.
Failing this, use the same 0.6mm bare silver wire, polished and treated with Pro-Gold (I remembered to get the name right this time!) and sleeve it with the suggested semi-rigid PTFE tubing, which will remain good-sounding for a long, long time.
Using soldered connections as opposed to *any* connectors,
will (as I said before) not only save a considerable sum (to be put towards the cost of the silver wire, as you mentioned) but will be much superior sonically, as well.
I hope you will let us know in due course, how you get on.
Regards,
Bob,
Cramolin company nowadays make 'Cramolin Contaclean' which is a spray can of mostly solvent, some kind of oil, and 5% (I think) of Cramolin red deoxidising stuff.
I have tried it and got bad long term results on switches and pots, although I did not clear solvent wash them out again, or apply known long lasting contact oil.
I am recently trying 'Caig Deoxit' and the immediate results are I think are better, but time will tell.
Spraying the Contaclean into a lid reveals the solvent to evaporate and leave very little contact oil.
In switches that have failed that I have opened, time, original contact oil/grease and Contaclean mix to form a black sludge that goes stiff and makes for contact problems.
In my application in servicing, I feel that washing and then contact oiling is important for long term reliability and satisfaction.
I have no argument about the immediate sonic benefits (only praise) of these treatments, but in my customer day work, medium and long term reliability is a mission critical issue also.
Eric.
Cramolin company nowadays make 'Cramolin Contaclean' which is a spray can of mostly solvent, some kind of oil, and 5% (I think) of Cramolin red deoxidising stuff.
I have tried it and got bad long term results on switches and pots, although I did not clear solvent wash them out again, or apply known long lasting contact oil.
I am recently trying 'Caig Deoxit' and the immediate results are I think are better, but time will tell.
Spraying the Contaclean into a lid reveals the solvent to evaporate and leave very little contact oil.
In switches that have failed that I have opened, time, original contact oil/grease and Contaclean mix to form a black sludge that goes stiff and makes for contact problems.
In my application in servicing, I feel that washing and then contact oiling is important for long term reliability and satisfaction.
I have no argument about the immediate sonic benefits (only praise) of these treatments, but in my customer day work, medium and long term reliability is a mission critical issue also.
Eric.
Hi Eric,
Good to hear from you, as I thought you'd gone into hibernation down there.
Interesting what you say about the name of the Caig product (which I will always 'know' as Cramolin through habit).
According to the current Caig info which gets sent to me periodically, the name Cramolin has been entirely dropped, and when I looked (for the first time) on their webpage, I don't recall seeing it either.
Maybe its different 'down-under', but I didn't want to have Niclas waste his time searching for something in Europe which probably doesn't now exist here.
In case it is of any interest, the current line-up (at least here!)is:
ProGold, DeoxIT, and PreservIT, together with 13 other electronics-related products which are not contact cleaners/preservatives.
It is my belief, but not substantiated, that the PreservIT product is the same as 'old' Cramolin blue, lubrication/preservative I mentioned before.
Thet do all share the same 'active ingredients', as I had suggested, and there are different 'strengths', designed to cope with differing applications, and some do have alternative 'carriers'.
DeoxIT Dn5, if that is what you now have, uses the solvent 141b, if you are interested.
They are, as you mentioned, either 100%- usually in bottles, or 5%- usually in spray cans or environmentally friendly 'pump' sprays, and there are also needle & syringe dispensers, together with brush applicators, pens, and wipes.
I get by with a bottle of 100% ProGold G100L, an aerosol of 5% DeoxIT D5, and a pump version of 5% ProGold G5 XP (which is intended for high temp applications like valve gear), and with these I can cover every application I can think of.
Anything in clear bottles should be stored out of the sun, according to the 'old' packages, to avoid premature deterioration of its efficacy, although I don't see this warning on recent bottles.
I won't say any more about this or I will be accused of boring someone, but I have many pages of Caig's tech info not available on the 'net, so if you are interested in any aspect, let me know.
You are quite correct about the switch sludge etc, when you don't have the chance to fully remove any other contact lubricant before applying Caig's stuff, but, of course, that did not enter into the discusion on treating wires, as you also said.
As you have found, in these applications, it is really important to first remove any 'old' gunge I have found, irrespective of whichever subsequent lubricant I have tried, as their 'carriers' are frequently not miscible. In any event, the old gunge will probably contain particles of oxidised contact material, which is no use in a switch or pot.
You will find the 5% DeoxIT better for these applications, as it's much higher solvent content does help a lot in washing out the rubbish, and the lower concentration leaves less of the 'active' material in place, exactly as the instructions advise you.
The ideal is to "Remove any excess and leave a very thin layer".
Regards,🙂
Good to hear from you, as I thought you'd gone into hibernation down there.
Interesting what you say about the name of the Caig product (which I will always 'know' as Cramolin through habit).
According to the current Caig info which gets sent to me periodically, the name Cramolin has been entirely dropped, and when I looked (for the first time) on their webpage, I don't recall seeing it either.
Maybe its different 'down-under', but I didn't want to have Niclas waste his time searching for something in Europe which probably doesn't now exist here.
In case it is of any interest, the current line-up (at least here!)is:
ProGold, DeoxIT, and PreservIT, together with 13 other electronics-related products which are not contact cleaners/preservatives.
It is my belief, but not substantiated, that the PreservIT product is the same as 'old' Cramolin blue, lubrication/preservative I mentioned before.
Thet do all share the same 'active ingredients', as I had suggested, and there are different 'strengths', designed to cope with differing applications, and some do have alternative 'carriers'.
DeoxIT Dn5, if that is what you now have, uses the solvent 141b, if you are interested.
They are, as you mentioned, either 100%- usually in bottles, or 5%- usually in spray cans or environmentally friendly 'pump' sprays, and there are also needle & syringe dispensers, together with brush applicators, pens, and wipes.
I get by with a bottle of 100% ProGold G100L, an aerosol of 5% DeoxIT D5, and a pump version of 5% ProGold G5 XP (which is intended for high temp applications like valve gear), and with these I can cover every application I can think of.
Anything in clear bottles should be stored out of the sun, according to the 'old' packages, to avoid premature deterioration of its efficacy, although I don't see this warning on recent bottles.
I won't say any more about this or I will be accused of boring someone, but I have many pages of Caig's tech info not available on the 'net, so if you are interested in any aspect, let me know.
You are quite correct about the switch sludge etc, when you don't have the chance to fully remove any other contact lubricant before applying Caig's stuff, but, of course, that did not enter into the discusion on treating wires, as you also said.
As you have found, in these applications, it is really important to first remove any 'old' gunge I have found, irrespective of whichever subsequent lubricant I have tried, as their 'carriers' are frequently not miscible. In any event, the old gunge will probably contain particles of oxidised contact material, which is no use in a switch or pot.
You will find the 5% DeoxIT better for these applications, as it's much higher solvent content does help a lot in washing out the rubbish, and the lower concentration leaves less of the 'active' material in place, exactly as the instructions advise you.
The ideal is to "Remove any excess and leave a very thin layer".
Regards,🙂
Hi Niclas,
If you are still reading this thread, you might find interesting the following quotes from March issue of Hi-Fi World, which has just come out.
They relate to the latest Chord Signature Interconnect, their top of the line cable, which was given the maximum possible 4 stars rating by the reviewer.
" Not cheap, but musically superlative with great detail and superb tonal balance" and "If you are after a high-end interconnect be sure to make this your first stop."
The interesting part for us is the construction which is described as "the signal and return is, unusually, one solid core silver plated conductor measuring 0.403mm. Internal insulation is tape wrapped Teflon." .... "The shielding system of the Signature is one of the keys to the cable's performance."
So maybe my advice about using thin solid core wires and the (criticised) teflon tape wrap, is not such poor advice after all.
It is also of note that Chord use silver plated wire, which is not my favourite, but it is much cheaper than solid silver, and helps to keep costs down.
Regards,🙂
If you are still reading this thread, you might find interesting the following quotes from March issue of Hi-Fi World, which has just come out.
They relate to the latest Chord Signature Interconnect, their top of the line cable, which was given the maximum possible 4 stars rating by the reviewer.
" Not cheap, but musically superlative with great detail and superb tonal balance" and "If you are after a high-end interconnect be sure to make this your first stop."
The interesting part for us is the construction which is described as "the signal and return is, unusually, one solid core silver plated conductor measuring 0.403mm. Internal insulation is tape wrapped Teflon." .... "The shielding system of the Signature is one of the keys to the cable's performance."
So maybe my advice about using thin solid core wires and the (criticised) teflon tape wrap, is not such poor advice after all.
It is also of note that Chord use silver plated wire, which is not my favourite, but it is much cheaper than solid silver, and helps to keep costs down.
Regards,🙂
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