Depends on the functions and accuracy needed...for example AC mains is okay in the 210-245 range here...0.1 difference in reading hardly matters.
I have a $6 meter, slightly fancy Mastech version of the 830B, and it is within 0.1V of a Fluke, on the 20V range.
If that is enough - for me it is - then the extra money is not needed.
But if you are setting bias, which needs accurate mV, best meter you can afford is advised.
The other functions like true RMS and so on are not needed for me, so not relevant at all , as I do mostly repair work.
I have a $6 meter, slightly fancy Mastech version of the 830B, and it is within 0.1V of a Fluke, on the 20V range.
If that is enough - for me it is - then the extra money is not needed.
But if you are setting bias, which needs accurate mV, best meter you can afford is advised.
The other functions like true RMS and so on are not needed for me, so not relevant at all , as I do mostly repair work.
I am interested in a meter recommendation that can nearly match the old Fluke 8060a and 8062a in their ability to measure voltages out to let's say 20k or 30k.
I don't know how much I have to spend on a new meter to achieve this. I'd like to spend as little as possible w/o sacrificing quality. I don't do anything professionally and I'm just learning, may lose interest, so any ideas?
And I'm not completely against spending more if I need to and getting a Fluke, but don't want more Fluke than I need I guess. If I'm going to get a Fluke I'd like something fairly accurate out to 20k and US made. Like the cheapest US made meter that is accurate out to 20k.
I don't know how much I have to spend on a new meter to achieve this. I'd like to spend as little as possible w/o sacrificing quality. I don't do anything professionally and I'm just learning, may lose interest, so any ideas?
And I'm not completely against spending more if I need to and getting a Fluke, but don't want more Fluke than I need I guess. If I'm going to get a Fluke I'd like something fairly accurate out to 20k and US made. Like the cheapest US made meter that is accurate out to 20k.
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I'm sorry, please excuse my inexperience. 20-Khz. I am interested in being able to read voltages at a wide range of frequencies.
The Brymen meters are currently manufactured and sold in a gazillion of cloned version, with different cases, sometimes extra features (like pnp/npn beta, etc...). I'm not sure who first developed these models, cloned today by so many chinese manufacturers. They are good instruments, the only thing that pisses the beejesus out of me at the bench is the speed. They are slow, takes a couple of seconds to get a stable measurement. I don't need 4 1/2 digits for audio, just give me 3-4 measurements per second.
For a given ADC process, resolution vs. speed is always a trade off. The Brymen class of instruments are trading speed for a 4 1/2 resolution, which is not needed for audio, anyway. As a result, these instruments are IME annoyingly slow, making them look unresponsive. You'll never know if the test leads are not making good contact, or if the instrument is still "thinking" before displaying the result.
Fluke and Agilent DVMs are much better in this respect. A Fluke 101 can be had for under $50 on Amazon.
Fluke and Agilent DVMs are much better in this respect. A Fluke 101 can be had for under $50 on Amazon.
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I've got a BM235 at the ARC I'm vice president of, and I really don't mind it in this regard. It's not a good bench meter in this regard (reduce the resolution of a 34401A and it can be lightning fast!), but it really isn't bad - not noticeably worse than my Fluke 189.
Brymen makes a whole range of meters. I find having 4.5 digits really pretty handy (especially in a bench meter). The lower resolution Brymens (like the BM235) don't seem to be unreasonably slow - I'd say they're about average.
I tend to go through cheap meters quickly. I just had an $8.00 DMM fall off a top shelf onto concrete; and it will be no more! I took the batteries out and chucked it. Cheap DMMs also get way out of spec, which is sometimes worse than no DMM at all!
I was measuring current draw on an 80mm 12V cooling fan, because I was fitting it into an UPS system, and I didn't want to overload the fan circuit. So, first attempt, meter and DC power supply agree! Must be correct, unless they're both wrong! But what are the chances of that?
Yet, the reading was considerably off from the stated spec on the fan label, and it was unstable! What's with that? So, I did some research, and those fans use induction motors. Ok, fine, there are such things as DC induction motors.
But the small motors in chassis fans are not "DC" induction motors! Each fan has an inverter to convert DC to AC, which is much less problematic in such an application if you want speed control. Well, that means the current draw is not constant DC but variable DC!
My Fluke 87-V Max correctly measured the current draw, which complied to that on the fan label. The last thing I want to do is troubleshoot and repair the UPS cooling circuit! It's complex, because it has 3 fan connections, temperature control, a transformer, and a rectifier! What a nightmare to blow that out!
So, the meter earned its keep the first time I used it, albeit because parts for the UPS unit are not available outside the manufacturer's repair facility. So, if you break something, you have to repair it! Or pay 1/2 as much as the cost of the UPS in repair costs! Just shipping is hundreds of dollars! And what if the circuit was overloaded so it failed randomly! That could take out a $4500.00 piece of power equipment!
You just never know what you'll run into next. Also, a cheap meter is like a one-burner cook-top. As long as you have only one burner, you can do everything with just one burner! No one can tell you any different, because you've experienced it. That's all anyone needs!
But then you find a super deal on a four-burner cook-top, so you go for it. In no time flat you're convinced one burner is not enough; that you really need four to get your cooking done!
Now, enter the DMM. You may be able to test caps with the resistance function. As the meter voltage output across the cap, the voltage rises within the cap (DMMs measure resistance by a voltage drop) and the resistance rises if the cap is good. But that test is unreliable and time consuming. You really want a capacitance function!
If you're going have a capacitance function on your meter, you want it to be robust, not finicky, and to measure up to at least 20,000uF! So, you need the Fluke, BK, Amprobe or Keysight meter!
You can test a mosfet by charging up the gate with the resistance function on the DMM, moving over to the source, and shorting all three leads. If the meter goes low, the mosfet is usually good.
But a diode check is much more reliable and accurate. An experienced user can even predict impending failure using a diode check function on a mosfet. Also works with bipolar transistors. So, you want a diode check. But you want it to use current, not voltage, within the function, because a junction can allow voltage through, but current is next to zero.
I actually had that problem measuring a diode with the voltage function on a DMM. There was lots of voltage coming through. So, it wasn't doing it's job! No, it was! But it was blocking mostly current! So, you want a good, robust diode check!
How does a DMM hold it's calibration. There are two ways. A). Uses trim pots on the DMM IC. B). Uses calibration constants stored in special eeprom memory. Cheap DMMs use an IC to provide all basic DMM functions. The IC is connected to trim pots for calibration, and an A/D converter to turn the chip values into readable numbers on the display!
Cheap meters use an all-in-one DMM IC. The chip is prone to drift, and so the meter drifts with time and temperature. The A/D conveter is slow and it uses algorithms to compensate for a low-quality analog side!
Expensive meters use calibration constants that are numerical representations not subject to drift. "0x00bb" is the same no matter how much time goes by, or what the temperature is! A Fluke 87-V Max is expected to maintain spec over its useful life, without adjustment! Actually, if an 87-V requires adjustment, Fluke Calibration considers that a repair.
Calibration consists of simply checking the meter for in spec. So, the user who doesn't require a yearly cal cert for insurance purposes, or other legal stiipulation, can reasonably assume the Fluke 87-V will always be in spec. unless it is damaged.
One word of caution when using commecial-grade DMMs: the requirements for FCC approval are more stringent for residential installations than for commercial and industrial ones. So, Fluke, and possibly other manufacturers, have adopted the insidious practice of NOT obtainimg FCC approval for use in domestic/residential installations. They simply state the device is not to be used in residential zoned areas. It saves a bunch on design and testing costs.
So, for warranty claims, especially if there is liability involved, it is vitally important to not reveal a device was being used in an unapproved way, in a domestic building, or domestic-zoned area.
You get what you pay for. Some people will never know how much easier and better their lives could have been with a four-burner cooktop!
I was measuring current draw on an 80mm 12V cooling fan, because I was fitting it into an UPS system, and I didn't want to overload the fan circuit. So, first attempt, meter and DC power supply agree! Must be correct, unless they're both wrong! But what are the chances of that?
Yet, the reading was considerably off from the stated spec on the fan label, and it was unstable! What's with that? So, I did some research, and those fans use induction motors. Ok, fine, there are such things as DC induction motors.
But the small motors in chassis fans are not "DC" induction motors! Each fan has an inverter to convert DC to AC, which is much less problematic in such an application if you want speed control. Well, that means the current draw is not constant DC but variable DC!
My Fluke 87-V Max correctly measured the current draw, which complied to that on the fan label. The last thing I want to do is troubleshoot and repair the UPS cooling circuit! It's complex, because it has 3 fan connections, temperature control, a transformer, and a rectifier! What a nightmare to blow that out!
So, the meter earned its keep the first time I used it, albeit because parts for the UPS unit are not available outside the manufacturer's repair facility. So, if you break something, you have to repair it! Or pay 1/2 as much as the cost of the UPS in repair costs! Just shipping is hundreds of dollars! And what if the circuit was overloaded so it failed randomly! That could take out a $4500.00 piece of power equipment!
You just never know what you'll run into next. Also, a cheap meter is like a one-burner cook-top. As long as you have only one burner, you can do everything with just one burner! No one can tell you any different, because you've experienced it. That's all anyone needs!
But then you find a super deal on a four-burner cook-top, so you go for it. In no time flat you're convinced one burner is not enough; that you really need four to get your cooking done!
Now, enter the DMM. You may be able to test caps with the resistance function. As the meter voltage output across the cap, the voltage rises within the cap (DMMs measure resistance by a voltage drop) and the resistance rises if the cap is good. But that test is unreliable and time consuming. You really want a capacitance function!
If you're going have a capacitance function on your meter, you want it to be robust, not finicky, and to measure up to at least 20,000uF! So, you need the Fluke, BK, Amprobe or Keysight meter!
You can test a mosfet by charging up the gate with the resistance function on the DMM, moving over to the source, and shorting all three leads. If the meter goes low, the mosfet is usually good.
But a diode check is much more reliable and accurate. An experienced user can even predict impending failure using a diode check function on a mosfet. Also works with bipolar transistors. So, you want a diode check. But you want it to use current, not voltage, within the function, because a junction can allow voltage through, but current is next to zero.
I actually had that problem measuring a diode with the voltage function on a DMM. There was lots of voltage coming through. So, it wasn't doing it's job! No, it was! But it was blocking mostly current! So, you want a good, robust diode check!
How does a DMM hold it's calibration. There are two ways. A). Uses trim pots on the DMM IC. B). Uses calibration constants stored in special eeprom memory. Cheap DMMs use an IC to provide all basic DMM functions. The IC is connected to trim pots for calibration, and an A/D converter to turn the chip values into readable numbers on the display!
Cheap meters use an all-in-one DMM IC. The chip is prone to drift, and so the meter drifts with time and temperature. The A/D conveter is slow and it uses algorithms to compensate for a low-quality analog side!
Expensive meters use calibration constants that are numerical representations not subject to drift. "0x00bb" is the same no matter how much time goes by, or what the temperature is! A Fluke 87-V Max is expected to maintain spec over its useful life, without adjustment! Actually, if an 87-V requires adjustment, Fluke Calibration considers that a repair.
Calibration consists of simply checking the meter for in spec. So, the user who doesn't require a yearly cal cert for insurance purposes, or other legal stiipulation, can reasonably assume the Fluke 87-V will always be in spec. unless it is damaged.
One word of caution when using commecial-grade DMMs: the requirements for FCC approval are more stringent for residential installations than for commercial and industrial ones. So, Fluke, and possibly other manufacturers, have adopted the insidious practice of NOT obtainimg FCC approval for use in domestic/residential installations. They simply state the device is not to be used in residential zoned areas. It saves a bunch on design and testing costs.
So, for warranty claims, especially if there is liability involved, it is vitally important to not reveal a device was being used in an unapproved way, in a domestic building, or domestic-zoned area.
You get what you pay for. Some people will never know how much easier and better their lives could have been with a four-burner cooktop!
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It really doesn't matter how high it can read - even 100 uF would be plenty. What matters is the bottom of the range, and how accurate it is. Being able to read down in the pF range is pretty useful.
Caps in the 20 mF range are almost always electrolytic filter capacitors. They're always labeled, and their normal failure mode is only readable on a capacitance meter if it's extreme.
One can also get a reasonable measure of capacitance (not super accurate, but close enough most of the time) with a signal generator and either an oscilloscope or a wideband AC voltmeter. That's another thing that is worth looking at on meters - try to find a TrueRMS meter with reasonably wide bandwidth. For audio work, 20 kHz. 100 kHz+ is really handy.
Also, there are lots of companies that make good DMMs, beyond those you listed.
For repair use, it's pretty nice to have a capacitance range, especially when you've got caps with no markings, illegible markings, or in some cases completely obliterated markings. Temperature is nice for measuring how hot a heatsink is running. Being able to measure the amplitude of an audio-frequency sine wave is pretty useful.
I suppose if all you're doing is an occasional minor repair it doesn't matter, but a lot of us are doing fairly in-depth repairs (ever gotten an amp that smelled like a charcoal grill? I have!) or -more often- designing and building our own from scratch. In that case, having good tools is pretty useful. Strict necessity? Maybe not, but it sure saves a lot of time.
It depends on whether you fall closer to the "audiophile who wants to maintain their own stuff" or closer to the "engineer who builds amps for fun".
I am an engineer who is OCD about cleanliness in person and workmanship.
So I do my own (mostly) repair work, but that is like a few days a year.
New from ready populated kits, if at all.
And I have spares, so no rush.
I find it irritating to give it to a shop, then get a shoddy job with scratches and the cheapest parts, after months. And several trips to a congested area.
Some have closed shop suddenly, selling stuff belonging to others in scrap, this has happened during deaths by Covid.
Pioneer, Sony, Sansui...sometimes I see those in the flea markets.
I use top quality parts, my own labor is free, my workmanship is better than most pros.
I use alcohol to remove flux, which is weirdo land for the repair people here.
And I have the ability to find the information needed, and some good sources if it is beyond me.
Capacitance meter available on request from a friend, I just take the capacitors to his place to check if needed. Maybe once in a year.
In comparison, a 29" CRT had a SMPS failure, STK in it, would have cost $8, and STK are unreliable.
So the repairman changed the whole ready PCB, complete with power supply and more function, cost him $12, and labor was extra.
The owner got a totally new circuit, and more functions, also it has a bigger audio output. And a new remote. All parts are current production.
Finish...in less than two hours, as all that is needed is HT, deflection coils, speaker, mains wire, and remote sensor to be wired in. or swapped out.
Mechanical fixing between old and new mounts is the most tedious!
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I have been eyeballing for quite some time on those cheap multimeters found on AliExpress and the likes.. and there are some brands that have a very faint display and/or narrow viewing angle according to some pictures uploaded in the feedback section from customers, nothing like the all too common excessively photo shopped pictures showing displays with ultra bright contrast and clarity, I have been suspecting that some multimeters aren't designed for rechargable batteries as those have lower voltage per cell, like the Aneng brand takes 2 AA batteries instead of typical 9 V, the AA for one time use are usually 1,5 V, but rechargeable are closer to 1,2-1,3 V per cell, and 2 in series makes an even bigger difference, anyone familiar with this problem?
