DONE!
The boxes are done, finished, and the speakers are installed.
We still need to build bases for them, but they are nothing short of amazing. I am not an expert, and this is the best pair of speakers I have ever heard in terms of component quality - but the sound is amazing. Ended up stuffing only the top third. Pics are on the way!
Thanks to everyone that helped out answering my questions and especially scott and dld for the design!
The first CD played was by the group KODO, a taiko drumming outfit whom my father and I saw live. It was like being back at the show.
I will update with pics shortly of the finished boxes, and then the bases once those are complete.
Cheers!
The boxes are done, finished, and the speakers are installed.
We still need to build bases for them, but they are nothing short of amazing. I am not an expert, and this is the best pair of speakers I have ever heard in terms of component quality - but the sound is amazing. Ended up stuffing only the top third. Pics are on the way!
Thanks to everyone that helped out answering my questions and especially scott and dld for the design!
The first CD played was by the group KODO, a taiko drumming outfit whom my father and I saw live. It was like being back at the show.
I will update with pics shortly of the finished boxes, and then the bases once those are complete.
Cheers!
I realized that I never came back and finished this thread. My great appologies to the none of you that cared. This is (obviously) the crossover - Madisound "premium". All wires are soldred to the board, and the board is then mounted into the bottom of the box. The board is mounted to the base with strips of foam and the supplied screws. The left side is the tweeter and the right is the woofer filter. This base was left kinda unfinished as the support base will hide it.
This is (obviously) the crossover - Madisound "premium". All wires are soldred to the board, and the board is then mounted into the bottom of the box. The board is mounted to the base with strips of foam and the supplied screws. The left side is the tweeter and the right is the woofer filter. This base was left kinda unfinished as the support base will hide it.Attachments
Here is a shot of the finished speaker. They are in my dining room for now. I am working on cleaning stuff out of an upstairs room to make an actual music room. The blue tape on the speaker was used to protect the finish during transport. It will come off shortly, and really had I been thinking I would have taken it off for the picture. Duh.
Attachments
Hey Patrick,
They look like damn fine speakers to me. Glad they turned out and thanks for taking the time to upload your work in progress and finished results.
Since you have listened to them for some time - can you comment on strengths and weaknesses? What sort of music do they play best? What amp and source are you using?
Cheers,
David.
They look like damn fine speakers to me. Glad they turned out and thanks for taking the time to upload your work in progress and finished results.
Since you have listened to them for some time - can you comment on strengths and weaknesses? What sort of music do they play best? What amp and source are you using?
Cheers,
David.
Hey Dave,
Thanks for your interest and the compliment. Amp is a Sansui AU X-501 stereo integrated putting out 80 or 85 watts, I have read both and don't own a manual. The source is a Denon DCD-820. All the wiring is homebrew (more details if you want).
I am quite happy with how they sound. I have listened for several hours at a time and not been fatigued. With the amp turned up well past normal or practical listening levels there was no distortion or cabinet resonance detectable (this is unmeasured
as I lack the gear). I would describe the sound as extremely balanced; not boomy or thin, not too bright - but all the highs are present. Admittedly these are the best speakers to which I have ever listened (in terms of components), so I don't have much to which to compare them.
They do not have a slamming bass type feel, which is fine with me and was not expected nor desired. However, they do have a very deep response and can shake the house. Its more like a field effect than anything else. Its kinda hard to describe because they have as much bass end as my HT sub, but its more part of the music - not so much like a divided bass thwap. Now that's a technical description! Upright bass chords on Jazz tracks sound amazing, literally live. Not good for party situations where you want the slam.
The Bella Fleck Live album I have sounds great, male and female vocals are also well represented. The highs are excellent, and not bright (almost painful) like a set of cheaper AR speakers I bought for HT surrounds.
On the Gene Krupa drum battle cd each drum strike is distinct, even in the silly fast parts, something I hadn't heard before. Chill lounge music sounds good as well, plenty of low end to tie it together. Various Miles Davis cds all sound nice: Birth of the Cool through to Bitches Brew. David Sylvian, various classical stuff, and Ravi Shankar again all sound better than before. In particular on the 2nd track of the Shankar live from the montery pop festival the sound of the drummer's hands sliding on the drums is audible.
I honestly haven't put in anything that sounded outright bad. I have put in some cds that it turns out were bad recordings, hum in some tracks, etc. Some louder rock type stuff Pearl Jam, Beatie Boys, things like that sound slightly collapsed towards the middle. Not sure if that is a property of the speakers of the recordings or my imagination.
I would very much NOT recommend these for someone looking for slam over control in the bass department. House/Techno stuff sounds good, but not like having a couple/six 15" speakers for the lows.
Mostly I listen to pretty laid back type stuff and feel these speakers are a good match for that. Balance is the one word I keep coming back to in my head.
Thanks again for the comments and I look forward to what others have to say. Happy to answer any questions, etc.
_Patrick
P.S. - Please note that all the above is subjective, I have, sadly, no ability to do measurements at this time.
Thanks for your interest and the compliment. Amp is a Sansui AU X-501 stereo integrated putting out 80 or 85 watts, I have read both and don't own a manual. The source is a Denon DCD-820. All the wiring is homebrew (more details if you want).
I am quite happy with how they sound. I have listened for several hours at a time and not been fatigued. With the amp turned up well past normal or practical listening levels there was no distortion or cabinet resonance detectable (this is unmeasured
as I lack the gear). I would describe the sound as extremely balanced; not boomy or thin, not too bright - but all the highs are present. Admittedly these are the best speakers to which I have ever listened (in terms of components), so I don't have much to which to compare them. They do not have a slamming bass type feel, which is fine with me and was not expected nor desired. However, they do have a very deep response and can shake the house. Its more like a field effect than anything else. Its kinda hard to describe because they have as much bass end as my HT sub, but its more part of the music - not so much like a divided bass thwap. Now that's a technical description! Upright bass chords on Jazz tracks sound amazing, literally live. Not good for party situations where you want the slam.
The Bella Fleck Live album I have sounds great, male and female vocals are also well represented. The highs are excellent, and not bright (almost painful) like a set of cheaper AR speakers I bought for HT surrounds.
On the Gene Krupa drum battle cd each drum strike is distinct, even in the silly fast parts, something I hadn't heard before. Chill lounge music sounds good as well, plenty of low end to tie it together. Various Miles Davis cds all sound nice: Birth of the Cool through to Bitches Brew. David Sylvian, various classical stuff, and Ravi Shankar again all sound better than before. In particular on the 2nd track of the Shankar live from the montery pop festival the sound of the drummer's hands sliding on the drums is audible.
I honestly haven't put in anything that sounded outright bad. I have put in some cds that it turns out were bad recordings, hum in some tracks, etc. Some louder rock type stuff Pearl Jam, Beatie Boys, things like that sound slightly collapsed towards the middle. Not sure if that is a property of the speakers of the recordings or my imagination.
I would very much NOT recommend these for someone looking for slam over control in the bass department. House/Techno stuff sounds good, but not like having a couple/six 15" speakers for the lows.
Mostly I listen to pretty laid back type stuff and feel these speakers are a good match for that. Balance is the one word I keep coming back to in my head.
Thanks again for the comments and I look forward to what others have to say. Happy to answer any questions, etc.
_Patrick
P.S. - Please note that all the above is subjective, I have, sadly, no ability to do measurements at this time.
Thanks Patrick,
I'm keen on a Seas design and debating whether I do a short thor or risk my own design here and falling that, fall back to a TM Zaph produced for the same drivers should mine not work....
I was worried the Thor crossover might not be great given the enclosure issues resulting in the new TL options put forward on the forum. Your comments have somewhat alleviated my concerns.
Cheers,
David.
I'm keen on a Seas design and debating whether I do a short thor or risk my own design here and falling that, fall back to a TM Zaph produced for the same drivers should mine not work....
I was worried the Thor crossover might not be great given the enclosure issues resulting in the new TL options put forward on the forum. Your comments have somewhat alleviated my concerns.
Cheers,
David.
Dave,
To my ears it sounds excellent. However, if it were measured maybe there is a dip or wiggle and I happen to have hearing loss right at that frequency - maybe someone else who has built these and has measurement ability can comment? There is some information on a slightly different design, same drivers here
But reading through there I see you already found that thread - so no new info there. I am at the point that I can read other people's work and comments and understand it, but not yet analyze a crossover on my own, so I can't really help you out too much in the technical department. If you ever happen to be around come by and give them a listen. Its only on the other side of the world!
_Patrick
To my ears it sounds excellent. However, if it were measured maybe there is a dip or wiggle and I happen to have hearing loss right at that frequency
- maybe someone else who has built these and has measurement ability can comment? There is some information on a slightly different design, same drivers here But reading through there I see you already found that thread - so no new info there. I am at the point that I can read other people's work and comments and understand it, but not yet analyze a crossover on my own, so I can't really help you out too much in the technical department. If you ever happen to be around come by and give them a listen. Its only on the other side of the world!
_Patrick
follow-ups
Hey there,
Great work on the finish, I can build things that work, but making them look good is a little beyond me currently! However, that won't stop me having a go at this project myself very soon...
As a follow-up, how do you find the sound after the last 6 months or so? Normally we humans can find that new things sound great, simply because they are new, but after time we find more details the we initially over looked. Basically, do they still sound great? Are they really unforgiving? My pair will end up in my personal recording studio, so I want a system that tells the me the truth.
Thanks,
Heath.
Hey there,
Great work on the finish, I can build things that work, but making them look good is a little beyond me currently! However, that won't stop me having a go at this project myself very soon...
As a follow-up, how do you find the sound after the last 6 months or so? Normally we humans can find that new things sound great, simply because they are new, but after time we find more details the we initially over looked. Basically, do they still sound great? Are they really unforgiving? My pair will end up in my personal recording studio, so I want a system that tells the me the truth.
Thanks,
Heath.
Thanks for the compliments. Yes, I still very much like them. I honestly need a bigger room for them, so I am not sure I would recommend them for a small studio situation. I am not sure how to define unforgiving. They need a big room, or at least a bigger one then I have them in to really sound great, when I had them in the living room the sound was better. And I only bring this up since you mentioned a studio.
Hope that helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
Patrick
Hope that helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
Patrick
Thanks for the fast response, Patrick. This forum kicks!
As far as room size, I have a 7 metre (21feet) by 6 metre (18feet) room, with 2.4 metre (8feet) ceiling. Floor is concrete slab (the lower floor of my two-storey house) and three of the walls are cavity-brick. The fourth wall is going to be double thickness drywall/gyprock. It will be a large and solid room. It's like a control room combined with a live room, and pretty much no furniture besides drumkit, mic stands, a couch and heavy amounts acoustic treatment. It's pretty much my dream playground! But will it be big enough..?
I am thinking of building an amp to go with them, would any of the chip amp kits going around be suitable? Do they need huge amounts of power? My RMS mixing volume is 85db A-weighted, with peaks to just over 100db. Anyone have any sensitivity ratings?
Heath.
As far as room size, I have a 7 metre (21feet) by 6 metre (18feet) room, with 2.4 metre (8feet) ceiling. Floor is concrete slab (the lower floor of my two-storey house) and three of the walls are cavity-brick. The fourth wall is going to be double thickness drywall/gyprock. It will be a large and solid room. It's like a control room combined with a live room, and pretty much no furniture besides drumkit, mic stands, a couch and heavy amounts acoustic treatment. It's pretty much my dream playground! But will it be big enough..?
I am thinking of building an amp to go with them, would any of the chip amp kits going around be suitable? Do they need huge amounts of power? My RMS mixing volume is 85db A-weighted, with peaks to just over 100db. Anyone have any sensitivity ratings?
Heath.
Since you will be sound treating the room I think you should be fine. I just have them in a bare room of old plaster walls since I am currently renting waiting for housing prices to return to normal.
I haven't built an amp and am no expert. I am driving them with an 80 watt Sansui from the 1980's. For their current location that is plenty, and I am not close to maxing out that amp. There have been a bunch of good amp build threads and they would much better be able to help you in that regard.
Cheers,
Patrick
I haven't built an amp and am no expert. I am driving them with an 80 watt Sansui from the 1980's. For their current location that is plenty, and I am not close to maxing out that amp. There have been a bunch of good amp build threads and they would much better be able to help you in that regard.
Cheers,
Patrick
Here's an alternate crossover that I'm sure will sound a lot better than the stock crossover. http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=26754&highlight=thor
The info will be found at the end of side 1 and on side 2.
The info will be found at the end of side 1 and on side 2.
Thanks Dave, looks great! I just thought I would throw in that this crossover calls for a 10" baffle and the original design as 9" (as noted in the drawing). Not a huge deal, but something to think about before anyone sees this and throws this corssover in an existing set of boxes. And I am not sure how much difference an inch makes (that's what I tell the ladies).
That being said, I would love to hear about anyone's feedback on the new design. FWIW I have no complaints about the stock crossover; but I haven't heard this, so it might be worlds better!.
That being said, I would love to hear about anyone's feedback on the new design. FWIW I have no complaints about the stock crossover; but I haven't heard this, so it might be worlds better!.
Short Thor
Congratulations for your new Short Thors!
I think its one of the very best designs DIY can buy at the range of price.
Short Thor with the ML TL redesign by Dave and Scoot. And the jimangie new crossover, I think it is one of the best compliments beginning by the number of hours of design employed on Thor project. The D´Appolito principle, Line quarter wave TL for restitution of bass, transductors Seas quality, refined crossover, bracing with golden ratios. I´d would like also the use of Golden ratios for tweeter positioning next to the inner corner. I´Think it would help in the pinpoint imaging, like the Eros´s Wayne Jaeschke proyect.
Ariel Design its the other one I Like, but lack of bass and the strong designer recommendation about not to use solid state amplifiers, scare me. The other one was precisely Eros project another D´Appolito floorstanding, but there has been complicated to get the parts, and the bass reflex cabinet compared with ML TL... hasn´t comparison.
I dont think, and its no usual, that a loudspeaker design have so many hours in investigation and development as this short Thor.
What can you tell us Imjatse, about the pinpoint imaging and soundstaging?
There is a wide and deep soundstaging?
Does the loudspeakers easily disappear?
Sorry for my english, a lot time ago I dont practice.
My best Wishes from Mexico.
Congratulations for your new Short Thors!
I think its one of the very best designs DIY can buy at the range of price.
Short Thor with the ML TL redesign by Dave and Scoot. And the jimangie new crossover, I think it is one of the best compliments beginning by the number of hours of design employed on Thor project. The D´Appolito principle, Line quarter wave TL for restitution of bass, transductors Seas quality, refined crossover, bracing with golden ratios. I´d would like also the use of Golden ratios for tweeter positioning next to the inner corner. I´Think it would help in the pinpoint imaging, like the Eros´s Wayne Jaeschke proyect.
Ariel Design its the other one I Like, but lack of bass and the strong designer recommendation about not to use solid state amplifiers, scare me. The other one was precisely Eros project another D´Appolito floorstanding, but there has been complicated to get the parts, and the bass reflex cabinet compared with ML TL... hasn´t comparison.
I dont think, and its no usual, that a loudspeaker design have so many hours in investigation and development as this short Thor.
What can you tell us Imjatse, about the pinpoint imaging and soundstaging?
There is a wide and deep soundstaging?
Does the loudspeakers easily disappear?
Sorry for my english, a lot time ago I dont practice.
My best Wishes from Mexico.
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