With your router, pattern bit, a couple of clamps, and a straight-edged piece of mdf or plywood you can accurately size your panels. It's also a good way to make sure that panels are the same dimensions by using one as the pattern for its mate. You can even temporarily join the pattern and workpiece with a couple of finishing nails or brads & fill the tiny holes later.
If you are using a router to 'straighten' panel edges, you can rough-cut with a jigsaw or hand-held circular saw aka Skilsaw. It wastes a bit of plywood, but is safer than dealing with sheet goods on a small table saw- which is not safe at all. I have 6 foot infeed and outfeed tables on my tablesaw. Without them I would get my sheet goods cut at the lumberyard, or do the job with a skilsaw.
Sawhorses or a couple of 'Workmate' type folding benches are pretty necessary if you do this sort of thing yourself.
BE safe!!
Once you get some tools, make a few non-speaker projects for the house. It helps with the 'household politics'. ;-)
If you are using a router to 'straighten' panel edges, you can rough-cut with a jigsaw or hand-held circular saw aka Skilsaw. It wastes a bit of plywood, but is safer than dealing with sheet goods on a small table saw- which is not safe at all. I have 6 foot infeed and outfeed tables on my tablesaw. Without them I would get my sheet goods cut at the lumberyard, or do the job with a skilsaw.
Sawhorses or a couple of 'Workmate' type folding benches are pretty necessary if you do this sort of thing yourself.
BE safe!!
Once you get some tools, make a few non-speaker projects for the house. It helps with the 'household politics'. ;-)
It seems around the world, panel sizing is a big issue since most of you at least mentioned owning or wanting tools to cut them precisely. To me this is a non issue, the cuts i get at the hardware store are always precise at the millimeter level. Is it really that common to get crap cuts at the DIY store?
re: Kreg and pocket hole screws
The Kreg system is really at its best building face frames, where you are screwing into the edge of a piece of solid wood that is 1 inch or more in width.
I don't have much faith in screwing into the face of plywood where the penetration would be only a fraction of an inch. If I were gong to resort to something like this, I'd use square inside cleats, glue & screw and then pull the screws (or not).
And, as you imply, the screws could cause a problem if you later decide you want to round or chamfer the box edges.
Besides, the Kreg stuff isn't cheap, and you need to use exactly the right screws, apparently.
The Kreg system is really at its best building face frames, where you are screwing into the edge of a piece of solid wood that is 1 inch or more in width.
I don't have much faith in screwing into the face of plywood where the penetration would be only a fraction of an inch. If I were gong to resort to something like this, I'd use square inside cleats, glue & screw and then pull the screws (or not).
And, as you imply, the screws could cause a problem if you later decide you want to round or chamfer the box edges.
Besides, the Kreg stuff isn't cheap, and you need to use exactly the right screws, apparently.
You are very lucky- accurate panel sizing eliminates a lot of work.
I've only had panels cut at the store (HomeDepot in Ottawa, Canada) a few times- I'd say the cuts were +/- 0.25 inch from request and not necessarily parallel to the edge, either. The panel wasn't well-secured, so the upper section tended to jam the blade a bit. Result was that the trailing edge of the blade shaved more-and-more from the panel as it reached the end of the cut. OK for 'construction'; not OK for cabinetry.
Basically it's a service to let you get a panel home if you don't have a truck, IMO. Which is a good thing.... and they don't charge for the first couple of cuts.
Amazing how different the same business can be over the world. Not 3 weeks ago i asked for 16 cuts, for two cabinets, and they were all included in the plywood price. I must have paid 12-13 euros total for the wood. With 5 more i could have gotten exterior-grade fenolic gluing plywood too.
bingo, and yahtzee
don't waste yer money on Kreg pocket screw system (yes you do need exactly the right screw) until you've got 2 or 3 decent routers, more clamps than you can shake a caul at, and daily access to a Morbidelli Author 600KL
seriously- dowels, confirmat, pocket screws (and even IMHO, biscuits) are fine for furniture and kitchen cabinets , but for speakers I'd stick with simple rabbet /dadoes that can easily be machined with router bits.
About the kreg system. I'm VERY weary of any kind of proprietary system. I'm an IT consultant and, in my field, open and reliable, easy to replicate tools are a must. I believe it is the same with craftmanship.
Relying on proprietary tools whose companies might close down, bankcrupt or just change core business tomorrow is not a good choice imho. I do love the idea behind the Kreg jig tho, it looks fantastic.
I trust your professional experience. I think what differentiates us is that i have to make do with a very very limited space, an even smaller budget and being overall a complete beginner and a clumsy one at that. I know that with only clamps and dado "tracks" in the wood i'd just make a royal mess. I don't have a router table so i'd have to route the dado tracks by hand. I just don't see it happening for me.
Not to mention that it makes designing the cabinet that much more complicate. You have to account for the thickness of the joinery when sizing the panels, you have to buy bigger panels and "work" them more to make them fit. Clumsiness is a very very big factor for me. I'm engineering my work process to work *around* my clumsiness and adding these many steps would add lots of chances for me to royally screw up 😛
I'm 100% sure tho that with the right tools, workspace and craftmanship the dado joinery or even the tenon and mortises are the straightest way to make speaker cabinetry.
I really don't think that CNC machine will ever be in my budget 😛
Sooner or later i'll probably build my own, as i need it for so many things and i have so many ideas that are constrained by my tools and are waiting to be realized.
From this thread i learned that i really need a biscuit joiner, i will probably go with a makita 14v driver, a bosch router and maybe a wolfcraft cheapish table.
Reading all the feedback, i now feel like spending a bit more than 90euros on a router but there is a very broad gap in price range and the next one after the Bosch's is at over 250 euros.
I still don't understand if i can use normal rolls of sand paper with random orbital sanders. I am really uncomfortable with relying on the manufacturer to supply me with velcro backed sand paper discs, for the same reason i dislike kreg's proprietary system. I guess i'll ask at the hardware store once i finally go shopping.
Wonderful thread people!
There is nothing here I would disagree with, quibble perhaps, but no matter. The attraction of the Kreg screws for me is their convenience in getting boards lined up while the glue sets. I just hate it when I am clamping something slicked with glue that shifts under a clamp. Squaring up the cabinet is also easier for me. It is not structural, though with the course thread screws made for plywood I can't say that I find much less integrity than with the fine thread in hard wood. But then again, I glue both hardwood and plywood so it is a moot point. I agree that one could rely on clamps alone when gluing up a box. Then again I could imagine all manner of joinery. I purchased a glue line miter locking router bit thinking it would provide a miter to hide the plywood edges of a corner, however that takes some real skill and care in setting up. Except for some practice pieces I have not used it to make anything lasting. But since little of the joinery is visible and a glued butt joint has proven as capable as any I have found when constructing a speaker, a few pocket hole screws keep it simple and things don't shift about as much. They are very forgiving since you are only putting a hole in one board. I have messed up dado's that do not mirror each other which is a disaster in expensive material. This does not happen with butted pocket holes. You can attach a pocket hole screwed piece or unattach it quickly to dry fit pieces which is handy for some of the baffling innards of these horns. I am unsure what the reticence is about having screws remain in a cabinet, and because a little forethought puts most every pocket hole inside the cabinet chamfering edges presents little problem with .75 inch plywood especially since there is likely some hard wood edge glued on to hide the edge and have something proper and nice to shape. But I do respect that there are wood workers with more skill and experience than I and there certainly are more elegant solutions than a butt joint with a screw in it.
IMO, there's nothing wrong with screws and I like the stainless steel hex drive screws they sell for outdoor decking. Power drive 'em right in. Still, glued butt joints and clamps give a perfectly satisfactory result. Biscuit joiners have always fallen into the category of nice-and-maybe-I'll-get-one-someday. Unless you're building large quantities of something more complicated than speakers, I don't see the point. I've been putting off getting one for 25 years or more, and will continue to do so. OTOH, one of my furniture building friends wouldn't go a minute without his.
Don't let tool acquisition drag on and get in the way of building anything. You'll never have every tool and a good craftsman should have a work-a-round for whatever the shop lacks. Also, don't forget some decent hand tools like a couple sharp chisels and a Stanley #5 plane!
Don't let tool acquisition drag on and get in the way of building anything. You'll never have every tool and a good craftsman should have a work-a-round for whatever the shop lacks. Also, don't forget some decent hand tools like a couple sharp chisels and a Stanley #5 plane!
That Bosch router should do fine. Use the extra money on decent cutters and edge guide and circle cutting jig, rather than on a bigger router.
You can just take a bit lighter cut if using a less-powerful motor. Also, good quality (sharp) cutters take less power to do the job.
I have used it both ways, left screws in (no effect on the sound at all from my experience), taken the screws out also after glues set in (glues are helpful to seal in the sound).
gychang
not really, can find replacement screws but exact stuff is smoother... and not sure where the "expensive" is coming from Kreg/screws/vise grips etc. are relatively cheap in US. I actually have 2 different sets (one near pro model) but I use the cheaper model and the main drill is very well built and has not dulled with occasional speaker cabinet and home use over few years.
A bit on routers. Larger routers are harder to control. If you use large profile bits those do require larger motors. My first router was rated at 1/4 HP the same unit is still in production and now is rated at 5/8 HP, so look at the actual current draw to compare the same manufacturers products. Bosch every so often offers a kit with two bases and one router. Turns out it is not a good deal. For a bit more you can get two routers.
I have one router always set up in a small table, a second is set with a collar and plunge base for template routing, a third is always with a precisely adjusted dovetail bit, a fourth small one is used for laminate, a fifth is set for drywall trimming, the sixth is set with a smaller collet for tiny bits and fine hand work and the seventh is open for general use.
I have one router always set up in a small table, a second is set with a collar and plunge base for template routing, a third is always with a precisely adjusted dovetail bit, a fourth small one is used for laminate, a fifth is set for drywall trimming, the sixth is set with a smaller collet for tiny bits and fine hand work and the seventh is open for general use.
I have all the tools mentioned above but I still love my Pocket Hole jig. They are great for building quick prototypes. I use glue on the joints plus the pocket hole fastening (as quick clamp). For small enclosures i use glue only. I also build boxes with 45 degree miter done in the table saw. First cut to length/width and then trim off the 45 with a home made fence jig. This has to be done with nobody around, the cut piece shoots back from the table saw. I then use transparent packing tape to butt the sides together and fold it like a book (with glue in the seams). It works quite well.
Alfredo
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Alfredo
I need a little bit of clarification on a couple of points. I have seen furniture and stereo cabinets from the 1960s which use pocket screw joints. In what way is the Kreg different from what they did so many years ago? It seems like all one would need is two jigs. One to drill the hole for the screw shaft and another for the counter sink (i.e. pocket.
Also could a pocket screw approach be used to join two boards along their long edge to make a wider board? I need 1"x18" for the mini-console project and needless to say it is hard to find such boards. If I could take two smaller boards and glue and screw together on a flat surface it would solve that problem.
Also could a pocket screw approach be used to join two boards along their long edge to make a wider board? I need 1"x18" for the mini-console project and needless to say it is hard to find such boards. If I could take two smaller boards and glue and screw together on a flat surface it would solve that problem.
The simplest of the Kreg jigs (there are more than one) is merely an easy tool to drill precisely calibrated angled and depth-stopped/ countersunk holes (using a special stepped bit) into one of the work pieces. I've used them myself on furniture assembly, for which they work like a charm - but there are far better techniques for structural integrity, and more importantly for speaker enclosures, sealed joints.
biscuits, full length splines, half-lap dadoes, or tongue & groove would provide far more glue surface area and a superior structural joint
You should use three to five boards to glue up to a larger piece. Look at the end gain and place one cupping up, next cupping down, then up etc. Biscuits will allow keeping a nice edge, but edge to edge gluing is the strongest way to glue wood. Using a yellow glue is fine.
Thank you Chris and Simon.
My starting point is pretty pathetic. I have a bench drill press, a router with no collets (have to call sears and see if I can get replacements), a cheap sabre saw, a couple of bar clamps, and my ghetto table saw that I built by attaching my circular saw to a hunk of plywood slung over a pair of saw horses. On top of that the bering on the circular saw has a bit of excess end play.
So any fancy joinery is probably going to require a little bit of investment in tools I suppose. Any advice on how to use limited funds would be appreciated.
My starting point is pretty pathetic. I have a bench drill press, a router with no collets (have to call sears and see if I can get replacements), a cheap sabre saw, a couple of bar clamps, and my ghetto table saw that I built by attaching my circular saw to a hunk of plywood slung over a pair of saw horses. On top of that the bering on the circular saw has a bit of excess end play.
So any fancy joinery is probably going to require a little bit of investment in tools I suppose. Any advice on how to use limited funds would be appreciated.
If the boards are properly jointed, there is no need for anything but glue.
Guitar builders edge join 3-4mm thick 'boards' to make up 16-18" wide tops and backs all the time. Check out some guitar-building resources for some easy clamping setups for this. Traditional method uses cord, sticks and wedges- very lo-tech.
traditional Spanish style
'Updated' US version using a jig
If you can't get the gluing edges perfectly jointed, then hanging some biscuits or dowels in there and using a gap-filling glue (epoxy) will do the job, though your glue line will show. Fine for hi-fi!
I usually find a way to keep the workpiece between the blade and the fence, so that (usually) the cutoff falls free. Depending on the width of your saw table, vs workpiece size, and the tilt of the blade, this can take a bit or thinking to arrange.
At any rate, it's good advice: never stand in line with the blade or let anybody else be in harm's way.
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