Shopping for $200-ish Phono Preamp Kit

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Again, the Tavish is leading the pack at this point.

Mixi, do you know if anyone has ever built the Tavish with the PSU in a separate enclosure? would that solve the noise issues you mentioned?

No, I don't know about that. But I bet it would be easy to do. The Tavish is my only piece of equipment with tubes so I don't know a lot about them. As I understand it, tubes in general are noisier than solid state gear (please correct me if I'm wrong). The noise of the tavish is still below the surface noise of the record of course and will not be a problem in day to day use. I just prefer equipment that is really quiet .... it's kind of a neurotic thing I guess :D

My impression is that noise is picked up by the tubes. I'm thinking of shielding the tubes - I think it could help (2PCS B9A 9Pin 55MM Aluminum Shield Cover Vacuum Tube Audio HIFI DIY For 12AX7 12AT7 12AU7 ECC81 ECC82 ECC83-in Amplifier from Consumer Electronics on AliExpress - 11.11_Double 11_Singles' Day).

Regarding the OpAmp based options. If you have a dual power supply and a breadboard it's really easy to build and compare the p06, muffsy, emerald, etc. as all the schematics are to be found on the net. I personally cannot hear differences between them. Still i prefer the p06 - maybe because the active / passive RIAA eq sounds logic and reasonable to me.

The muffsy was the first RIAA amp I built and I think the build guide and the support are fantastic. Also the kit includes a back panel as well as a suggestion for a fitting enclosure. So it's really easy to arrive at a finished product without having to think about components. Compared to that the Tavish will require a lot more effort.
 
Hello

Here are two very good forums, both have a lot to say about the EAR 834
valve phono preamp which is the grandfather of the little bear t-11


https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=20984.1950

Domesticating & Documenting the Little Bear- Vinyl Engine

I am sure many T-11 owners modify their preamps to improve performance.

I will wait awhile before I make any changes. Its sounds very good to me as
it came out of the box except for putting 12AX7 valves in it. Actually I put a
7025 in position 1 and 12AX7LPS in position 2 and 3.

Life is good.
Bruce
 

PRR

Member
Joined 2003
Paid Member
...As I understand it, tubes in general are noisier than solid state gear (please correct me if I'm wrong). The noise of the tavish is still below the surface noise of the record....

With reasonable care in system design and detail, tubes can be as quiet as they need to be.

As you say, tube hiss should be below surface noise, tube hum should be below platter rumble. No surprise, because the GE/Pickering/etal 5mV 47k phono needle convention was *designed* for tube inputs.

The earliest Germanium transistors did not beat a good tube on hiss. (With care they could be comparable, and with care the hum vanished.) Good clean devices (mostly Silicon) got hiss far below surface noise; but who listens to a system with the needle in mid-air?

Tubes and transformers go together. Both for low-Z motor loads (loudspeakers) and for low-Z sources (dynamic mikes and MC needles). Yes, you can find OTL speaker-amps and no-iron MC preamps, but the compromises are tough.

I would have to agree that, across 70+ years of hi-fi, the tranny boxes tended to be quieter, even when they became much cheaper. If price matters, a '5532 beats the pants off any tube. Even a TL072, which is only as quiet as a "good" tube in an ideal chassis, but you have to sort several tubes to find a low-hiss one, and obsess power heating and wiring to avoid excess noises.
 
Here are two very good forums, both have a lot to say about the EAR 834 valve phono preamp which is the grandfather of the little bear t-11
Yes, if you have a preference for tubes, and you have a budget of $200, it's worth considering the full-blown EAR834 implementation - especially since the Lenco people appear to give it their nod of approval.
A kit of PCB + components can be as little as US$50.
A suitable 0-6.3V + 0-260V toroidal transformer is US$40.
Or fully assembled and boxed for US$225 (with tubes) or $170 (without tubes) -
DIYERZONE Hiend MM Riaa 12AX7 Tube Phono Amp Base On Ear 834 Turntables Preamp L12 37-in Amplifier from Consumer Electronics on AliExpress - 11.11_Double 11_Singles' Day

Back to DIY opamp phonostages - the same people who developed the highly regarded "HQMC" phonostage also developed an alternative phono pre for MM carts called the "CNC"
Another Super High End Phono Stage! No expense spared... | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Allegedly this DIY product is on the same level as the Emerald, but apparently its component cost is noticeably lower. If you resist the urge to use a shiny expensive chassis, and instead re-purpose an old DVD player case, for example, you can end up with a high-end (MM) phonostage for beer money. Here's an example -
Another Super High End Phono Stage! No expense spared... | Page 149 | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
 
Hello:
Curious you should indicate re-purposing a DVD player. I am in the process of just that. For $10.00, I got a nice all metal chassis to start with. A new back plate and a nice wood front panel and it should be finished quite soon. There is plenty of room and things are going quite well.
I am building the Emerald by RJM. I am impressed with the board and documentation. I have not needed any help yet, but I suspect I will get all I need when needed. I chose the Emerald because I need a lot of gain from my 0.2mV output MC cartridge, opamps seem to be the way to go for that. It also allows me to change a few items and set it up for a MM cartridge. I like the flexibility.
I hope this helps
Good luck Keep us posted
 
Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

I'm pretty sure I'm going with the Tavish, really because I'm just simply drawn to tube equipment.

I also think that along with what I've learned building my Tubelab SSE, the Tavish will further my knowledge of DIY tube gear. I can read all the books and forums, but it's actually building stuff that teaches me.

One idea that does seem really interesting - and, fun/challenging - to me would be to buy a T-11, and see if I could draw a schematic from it, and then rebuild it with higher-grade components. Although, that might be really difficult to pull from studying a PCB.
 
Back to DIY opamp phonostages - the same people who developed the highly regarded "HQMC" phonostage also developed an alternative phono pre for MM carts called the "CNC"
Another Super High End Phono Stage! No expense spared... | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Allegedly this DIY product is on the same level as the Emerald, but apparently its component cost is noticeably lower.

the muffsy and the audiokarma cnc use the same layout.

component cost should be about the same for emerald and muffsy. both use two opamps and the „surrounding components“ will be very similar. the emerald allows for the use of „high end“ output caps.


edit: i just remembered that the emerald is a dual mono design. so, yes component cost will obviously be higher.
 
DWINSTONWOOD,

If you would read the Vinylengine forum I left a link to, you will find a schematic to the T-11. Also google EAR834 and you will find several
different versions of the schematic. The T-11 is a knock-off of the EAR834.
All the copies of the EAR834 are not complicated and easy to hand wire.
Also know this, To buy all the components to build the EAR834 will cost more
than to buy a T-11 outright. I know from experience.

Bruce
 
Here is the noise level I get with my T-11.
 

Attachments

  • T-11 noise.jpg
    T-11 noise.jpg
    220 KB · Views: 224
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.