Hello
I would like to carry out my forst tube build, the Shindo Claret kit looks quite interesting, and I just wondered if anyone else out there has built one already and could offer a little advice
Thanks
Audio_D
🙂
I would like to carry out my forst tube build, the Shindo Claret kit looks quite interesting, and I just wondered if anyone else out there has built one already and could offer a little advice
Thanks
Audio_D
🙂
I have not, however for anyone else reading I presume that you mean this one:
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/claret/Claret.html
I do not think that Shindo actually make kits, just pre-assembled equipment: http://www.shindo-laboratory.co.jp/Front/indexe.html
Personally, I would recommend the TubeCAD Aikido as a decent starting point.
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/claret/Claret.html
I do not think that Shindo actually make kits, just pre-assembled equipment: http://www.shindo-laboratory.co.jp/Front/indexe.html
Personally, I would recommend the TubeCAD Aikido as a decent starting point.
Claret copy
Hi,
dont build the claret Kit on the web from Thorsten Loesch, the circuit has some mistakes and is not complete.
There is no complete and accurate circuit on the net.
The Claret, as all Shindo gear, has been in many versions on the market, some sounds more interesting than others.
For all these Amps it is important to build with the right (original) components (available on the net with some searching) and to use the original mounting technique, for example turret boards, metal housing, small size tinned copper wire and light material cinch inputs (not the big golden types). Shindo knows what he is doing very well, and as we all are not on his level of experience (anyone around with 40 to 50 years experience in the best electronics and speakers technologies?) we should use his experience by reverse engineering.
So first try to get as many as you can get inside pics of original Shindo gear pics to become a feeling as how to arrange and choose the right components in the amps and to become familiar with all the different types of caps and resistors he is (and has been) used.
After choosing the amp you will build, get the circuit and be sure it is right. Then build it in the same way Shindo does. The result will not sound as good as an original Shindo component (because we do not have the experience of getting an amp soldering rightly in the Shindo manner, it has to function safely without soldering, that means every component and wire has to be pulled sometimes around around the turret point with the leads before soldering, and that is as important for the sound quality level you will achieve as to use the right cable length and solder (only use old solder type which is now forbidden due to ROHS).
As you can see, it is very complicated to build high Shindo quality amps, even when it looks so easy with the circuit in the hands.
For studying sound and its relation to components it can be very helpfull, so good luck for you.
Hi,
dont build the claret Kit on the web from Thorsten Loesch, the circuit has some mistakes and is not complete.
There is no complete and accurate circuit on the net.
The Claret, as all Shindo gear, has been in many versions on the market, some sounds more interesting than others.
For all these Amps it is important to build with the right (original) components (available on the net with some searching) and to use the original mounting technique, for example turret boards, metal housing, small size tinned copper wire and light material cinch inputs (not the big golden types). Shindo knows what he is doing very well, and as we all are not on his level of experience (anyone around with 40 to 50 years experience in the best electronics and speakers technologies?) we should use his experience by reverse engineering.
So first try to get as many as you can get inside pics of original Shindo gear pics to become a feeling as how to arrange and choose the right components in the amps and to become familiar with all the different types of caps and resistors he is (and has been) used.
After choosing the amp you will build, get the circuit and be sure it is right. Then build it in the same way Shindo does. The result will not sound as good as an original Shindo component (because we do not have the experience of getting an amp soldering rightly in the Shindo manner, it has to function safely without soldering, that means every component and wire has to be pulled sometimes around around the turret point with the leads before soldering, and that is as important for the sound quality level you will achieve as to use the right cable length and solder (only use old solder type which is now forbidden due to ROHS).
As you can see, it is very complicated to build high Shindo quality amps, even when it looks so easy with the circuit in the hands.
For studying sound and its relation to components it can be very helpfull, so good luck for you.
The circuit of a preamp on Thorsten site IS complete and accurate but there is no PSU schematic. Interior of a preamp is on the web. Simple PCB board for signal path and vintage parts.Very nice build quality. Tourets only in PSU section. Good luck finding the schematics of other Shindo products. I was not able to dig any.Regards, L
Hey, maybe I should pull out my old Counterpoint SA-7 and turn it into a Claret.
Any more views on whether or not this schematic will work?
sp
Any more views on whether or not this schematic will work?
sp
It will work, i have build it.
There´s another Shindo preamp that you can reverse engineer by looking at the pics in the net, it uses a ecl86, triode wired, the name is Moon... something...don´t remenber well.
Anyway i agree with the comments, you won´t get to Shindo levels just with a schematic and good will. But you may try, that you can🙂
There´s another Shindo preamp that you can reverse engineer by looking at the pics in the net, it uses a ecl86, triode wired, the name is Moon... something...don´t remenber well.
Anyway i agree with the comments, you won´t get to Shindo levels just with a schematic and good will. But you may try, that you can🙂
Hello
Sorry for the delay I have been so busy, thanks to everyone who have responded with this.
As i suspected to attain Shindo Sonic levels would indeed be asking a lot, but i hope for a more than decent sound none the less.
Stalker: I am interested in your views on the one you built, are you still using it?
Audio-D
Sorry for the delay I have been so busy, thanks to everyone who have responded with this.
As i suspected to attain Shindo Sonic levels would indeed be asking a lot, but i hope for a more than decent sound none the less.
Stalker: I am interested in your views on the one you built, are you still using it?
Audio-D
I can not comment about the phonestage, only build the line stage which uses feedback by the way. Pretty uncommon these days.
It sounds really nice. No noise, does not degrade the sound... has a sound of its own though. So you may like it or not. I do.
It is easy to build and not expensive so go ahead, only critical part is the volume pot, follow the article and you will not have problems.
And if any doubt arises just ask.
It sounds really nice. No noise, does not degrade the sound... has a sound of its own though. So you may like it or not. I do.
It is easy to build and not expensive so go ahead, only critical part is the volume pot, follow the article and you will not have problems.
And if any doubt arises just ask.
Where did you see the other Shindo pre pictures on the net ?
The one with ECL86 tube if I can ask?
Also did yo follow Shindo choice of parts when building your own version? Regards, L
The one with ECL86 tube if I can ask?
Also did yo follow Shindo choice of parts when building your own version? Regards, L
My understanding was that the first post in this thread spoke of a 'Shindo' kit. I assume that Audio-D is talking of an 'auction' offering from Asia.
Although Thorsens stuff is good he I seem to remember claimed that it was 'inspired' by Shindo San rather than a full reverse engineered replica. The kits are almost certainly in the same category but unlikely to have been designed in the same meticulous way in which the Claret came into being.
I know a top 'underground' designer who can - by very great knowledge of components and hardwired layout schemes make a Leak into something which is just so different. The point is that we cannot expect to get much at a knock-out price - even from China, (although I am mighty impressed with the two DACs which I bought last month.) Components - although decent - will be chosen for price, fittings pretty basic and sample variation will be large.
But - for a first build these Asian kits are absolutely a boon. When it has been built we can then learn a very great amount by buying better components and, maybe, end up with a pretty respectable bit of kit. But no way will it even then sound like a real made by the man Shindo amplifier.
Good luck🙂 🙂
Although Thorsens stuff is good he I seem to remember claimed that it was 'inspired' by Shindo San rather than a full reverse engineered replica. The kits are almost certainly in the same category but unlikely to have been designed in the same meticulous way in which the Claret came into being.
I know a top 'underground' designer who can - by very great knowledge of components and hardwired layout schemes make a Leak into something which is just so different. The point is that we cannot expect to get much at a knock-out price - even from China, (although I am mighty impressed with the two DACs which I bought last month.) Components - although decent - will be chosen for price, fittings pretty basic and sample variation will be large.
But - for a first build these Asian kits are absolutely a boon. When it has been built we can then learn a very great amount by buying better components and, maybe, end up with a pretty respectable bit of kit. But no way will it even then sound like a real made by the man Shindo amplifier.
Good luck🙂 🙂
Actually AFAIK Shindo Claret was offered both as a kit and factory product. Thorsten wrote "inspired "because"he didn't follow strictly the parts choice and PSU arrangement using tube rectifier while original Shindo is using sand diodes and toroid PT. Besides that the schematic is spot on and if one uses the same components which is 1W ,2W AB resistors, 2W dale for anodes, malroy 20uf electrolitycs for PSU along with sprague black beauty caps for coupling results should be pretty close. I heard nowadays Shindo uses all regulated PSU stages. Regards
Answering Limono here. Well in the audio reviews, where else?
Shindo does not like audio reviewers to "open" their products and take photos but some do.
It took me a long time to figure out the circuit and it is only 90 percent complete, if i find it in my files i will send it to you, but be warned: that pre has a pretty high Z out. It is like the Claret: one gain stage and a cathode follower. The triode section of the ecl86 is like a 12ax7 and the pentode, very much like an el84. The pentode is triode wired and does a very good cathode follower with plenty of current.
And no i did not use Shindo parts but i chose them wisely; I know a little about good sounding parts as well.
Shindo does not like audio reviewers to "open" their products and take photos but some do.
It took me a long time to figure out the circuit and it is only 90 percent complete, if i find it in my files i will send it to you, but be warned: that pre has a pretty high Z out. It is like the Claret: one gain stage and a cathode follower. The triode section of the ecl86 is like a 12ax7 and the pentode, very much like an el84. The pentode is triode wired and does a very good cathode follower with plenty of current.
And no i did not use Shindo parts but i chose them wisely; I know a little about good sounding parts as well.
Well sorry to have mislead you Limono, i have just checked and the pictures have dissapeared from the net. And more bad news, the schematic is not in my PC. Probably i quitted the idea of building a replica and erased it.
It's OK and thanks for the effort.I've got interested in Shindo approach because with time I acumulated quite a bit of old components (sprague, malroy , allen-bradley etc) from repair shops and ham swaps and judging from revievs and prices $$$$ one can build a nice sounding equipment if design is right .My design skills are basic so it's better to follow a master even if he is unwilling to share ;0).Even with the scant info there is always something to learn. I certainly don't blame Shindo, since well being of his family depends on exclusivity of products he makes.
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Hello all! Just saw this thread amd if someone is still interested the schematic can be found here:
http://community.fortunecity.ws/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/claret/Claret.html
It's interesting to look at. Not at all the design choices I would have made so it's really interesting if someone has listened to it in modern times.
I believe in things low impedance in general, bigger caps for the power supply and coupling etc. I mean a 10 meg resistor in the feedback loop? 500K pot for volume? Why no cathode follower? On the other hand it's neat to not use too many tubes and I have used the 12AT7 with good results. It's a nice mix between high mu and low Ri.
I put the schematic into LTspice and simulated it. In the simulation the RIAA is a little bit off, the bass falls off a bit early But perhaps it sounds great!? I may have to build it just to check it out compared to my own designs. I wonder what the schematics of the more modern amps look like. I am going to try out a preamp with a output transformer one of these days...
http://community.fortunecity.ws/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/claret/Claret.html
It's interesting to look at. Not at all the design choices I would have made so it's really interesting if someone has listened to it in modern times.
I believe in things low impedance in general, bigger caps for the power supply and coupling etc. I mean a 10 meg resistor in the feedback loop? 500K pot for volume? Why no cathode follower? On the other hand it's neat to not use too many tubes and I have used the 12AT7 with good results. It's a nice mix between high mu and low Ri.
I put the schematic into LTspice and simulated it. In the simulation the RIAA is a little bit off, the bass falls off a bit early But perhaps it sounds great!? I may have to build it just to check it out compared to my own designs. I wonder what the schematics of the more modern amps look like. I am going to try out a preamp with a output transformer one of these days...