I know that similar questions have been up before but I do have an extra question that I have not seen when I did a search so I decided to create a new thread.
I used to have a pair of Kef Q5 speakers paired with a Marantz reciever. I recently built a really good pair of speakers, a Troels Gravesend design called Revelator 851 which would be like 20 times the price of the Q5s if sold in a store. I also upgraded my Marantz reciever to a Vincent SA-T8 tube preamp and a Classé solid state power amp that I bought from the used market. My new setup sound awesome compared to my old system except from one thing. It sound way too clinical. I love the details, the soundstage ect, but really miss the warmth from my old system. So I was thinking of perhaps bringing that warmth back into my system by building a pair of SET monoblocks instead of the solid state power amp I have now. I know SET amp are known for their warm sound.
The new speakers have 89db sensitivity and I do not want to change speakers. Not ideally for a SET amp, I know. How much power do I need ideally? And if I bi-amp the speakers and drive the bass driver with a pair of Hypex class D amps, and just run the SET amp for M and T, will that help? I know that a lot of sensitive speakers are horn speakers so perhaps it's the tweeter that is the culprit? I am a total novice when it comes to tube gear. I know that Stephe that runs the Skunkie Designs Electronics on Youtube are going to make a build series of a pair of KT120 monoblocks that will output around 15W single ended. If they turn out good I might consider them as a project.
Room size is roughly 4*4 meters. A little less. I do want to be able to play somewhat loud.
So:
1. How much power do I need?
2. Will bi-amping with Class D on woofer help to relieve a SET amp?
3. Can a push pull amp deliver the same warmth as a SET amp if I need to go that route?
Many thanks in advance
/Magnus
I used to have a pair of Kef Q5 speakers paired with a Marantz reciever. I recently built a really good pair of speakers, a Troels Gravesend design called Revelator 851 which would be like 20 times the price of the Q5s if sold in a store. I also upgraded my Marantz reciever to a Vincent SA-T8 tube preamp and a Classé solid state power amp that I bought from the used market. My new setup sound awesome compared to my old system except from one thing. It sound way too clinical. I love the details, the soundstage ect, but really miss the warmth from my old system. So I was thinking of perhaps bringing that warmth back into my system by building a pair of SET monoblocks instead of the solid state power amp I have now. I know SET amp are known for their warm sound.
The new speakers have 89db sensitivity and I do not want to change speakers. Not ideally for a SET amp, I know. How much power do I need ideally? And if I bi-amp the speakers and drive the bass driver with a pair of Hypex class D amps, and just run the SET amp for M and T, will that help? I know that a lot of sensitive speakers are horn speakers so perhaps it's the tweeter that is the culprit? I am a total novice when it comes to tube gear. I know that Stephe that runs the Skunkie Designs Electronics on Youtube are going to make a build series of a pair of KT120 monoblocks that will output around 15W single ended. If they turn out good I might consider them as a project.
Room size is roughly 4*4 meters. A little less. I do want to be able to play somewhat loud.
So:
1. How much power do I need?
2. Will bi-amping with Class D on woofer help to relieve a SET amp?
3. Can a push pull amp deliver the same warmth as a SET amp if I need to go that route?
Many thanks in advance
/Magnus
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http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Revelator-851.htm
Certainly worth a try. Let the Classe do the heavy lifting in the bass. Use the more resolving amplifer on top. You lose a significant part of the XO (which tend towards evil).
The other rational is a voltage amp on the bottom to deal with the big impedance peak. And a more current oriented amp on top to take advanatge of their (potential) advantages. But it will be a bit forward where th eimpedance rises at the upper XO.
You will have to getteh active to mimic the passive to ensure voicing remains similar. And there is a potential difference between the voicing of 2 quit edifferent amplifiers.
What is the woofer to mid XO point? I cannot find in a quick scan of the article.
dave
Certainly worth a try. Let the Classe do the heavy lifting in the bass. Use the more resolving amplifer on top. You lose a significant part of the XO (which tend towards evil).
The other rational is a voltage amp on the bottom to deal with the big impedance peak. And a more current oriented amp on top to take advanatge of their (potential) advantages. But it will be a bit forward where th eimpedance rises at the upper XO.
You will have to getteh active to mimic the passive to ensure voicing remains similar. And there is a potential difference between the voicing of 2 quit edifferent amplifiers.
What is the woofer to mid XO point? I cannot find in a quick scan of the article.
dave
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I have emailed Troels about the W/M XO point. I do not know it myself.
The reason I would like to use Hypex Class D for the woofer and not the Classé are twofold. First the Hypex let me set the gain so I can easily match the amps. Secondly, as I understand it Class D is quite good for woofers. Lots of power and slam. Most subs use Class D.
But yeah, the XO point might matter for a good match since a SET and a Class D amp sound quite different.
For a SET amp, is it the woofer that is usually the hardest to drive? I am curious since lots of high sensitivity speakers use horn tweeters so I was thinking that perhaps the highs are hard to drive as well.
The tweeter itself in my speakers have a sensitivity of 91.5db and the mid has 87db. The woofer has 89db. Does this mean that the mid is the biggest challenge for a SET amp?
The reason I would like to use Hypex Class D for the woofer and not the Classé are twofold. First the Hypex let me set the gain so I can easily match the amps. Secondly, as I understand it Class D is quite good for woofers. Lots of power and slam. Most subs use Class D.
But yeah, the XO point might matter for a good match since a SET and a Class D amp sound quite different.
For a SET amp, is it the woofer that is usually the hardest to drive? I am curious since lots of high sensitivity speakers use horn tweeters so I was thinking that perhaps the highs are hard to drive as well.
The tweeter itself in my speakers have a sensitivity of 91.5db and the mid has 87db. The woofer has 89db. Does this mean that the mid is the biggest challenge for a SET amp?
The impedance vs frequency looks relatively smooth with the only caveat that it is basically a 4R speaker. For most of the spectrum is moderately changing around 5R and only dropping to 3.3R at very low frequency (where usually very little happens). So I have a different opinion. It can be fine with SE tube amp provided that the optimal primary impedance for the output transformer is for 4R nominal speaker and consider that the actual efficiency is 87 dB/1W. With 20W you get to 100 dB which is pretty loud by any standard. 10 good watts would already be good for me, surely in a room as big as yours.
I am not a fan of multiamping.
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You already have both? Use the one that sounds best. I expect the Hypex to win in the bottom but voicing might be firther from the SET.
dave
Depends on the SET and the loudspeaker. Highish Rout usually, but not always, means the loudspeaker needs to be better damped.
SETs typically have 2 issues. Low power. High sensitivity to the impedance of the loudspeaker.
dave
The crossover points on these speakers are 300hz and 2500hz according to Troels.
I do not own the Hypex at the moment but there are a couple out now on the used market for a good price.
300 Hz is WAW XO territory. You are less likely to have any voicing issues. And it is about the half-way point of typical playback spectrum so half goes to the woofers and the other half goes tot he midTweeter, putting much less load on the SET.
dave
dave
With digital source another choice is this (as the only amp): https://www.peachtreeaudio.com/products/gan1
With analogue a tube amp.
With analogue a tube amp.