Sensitive Wide Range OB - Update - Tonemaster

I have these performing pretty close to ideal for me. A real Grand Slam sonically - a step up in tone and believability over the previous contraptions using mid horns - Midrange is modified Eminence Lil' Buddy and treble is B&C DE10 in an Eminence APT80 horn - modified of course to fit.

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Magnetar,

Good going! That is of course open baffle with wings right?

The modern 604 in the shallow horn in the background looks interesting. How did you machine that? Do you have access to a large lathe? I want to do something similar in diameter with a bunch of black walnut chunks I have (conventional 1/2 wave diameter and length deep parabolic curve horn for a small cone driver perhaps 4-5 inch) but would have to make a huge powered turntable and control arm for an electric die grinder or router motor as the cutter. A lot of work for one pair of wooden horns.
 
rcavictim said:
Magnetar,

Good going! That is of course open baffle with wings right?

The modern 604 in the shallow horn in the background looks interesting. How did you machine that? Do you have access to a large lathe? I want to do something similar in diameter with a bunch of black walnut chunks I have (conventional 1/2 wave diameter and length deep parabolic curve horn for a small cone driver perhaps 4-5 inch) but would have to make a huge powered turntable and control arm for an electric die grinder or router motor as the cutter. A lot of work for one pair of wooden horns.


My friend Victor Sierra has the big lathe. I have the horn in sections all the way down to a 1" compression driver. Here it just functioned as a waveguide. The drivers are PAS 2580 with 4" coil and 2" entrance loaded with a large format compression driver. Think Super UREI - I like the hemp guitar speaker and the little 1" B&C compression driver over it though. There is really no contest, although I never completely perfected the crossover for the coax..
 
Re: Re: Sensitive Wide Range OB - Update - Tonemaster

ttan98 said:


The spec of Lil looks interesting.
What does the mid range sound like?

How did you modify your Lil' Buddy may I ask?

It's not exactly neutral but measures really flat in the midrange - I have more accurate midrange drivers like the JBL 2123 that sound very good but don't sound like this. An analogy would be the accurate JBL sounds like a good solid state amplifier where the Lil' Buddy sounds like a direct heated single ended 45 triode amp. In other words it's fast, direct, warm, lush and romantic. More 'whole' - probably has just the right amount of even harmonics distortion to please me.....

The mod is simply removing the dustcap and installing a phase plug - the plugs in mine are temporary - made from wax.. The driver uses hemp for the cone and has hemp for the surround - it's different
 

pdan

Member
2007-06-13 11:02 pm
I hope that this is not an imposition, but could you give an account of what you mean when you use the word 'tone'. The imposition is purely selfish on my part as your thoughts would greatly enhance my education. Another esteemed creator, Sakuma, talks mysteriously about the " frame of tone" What is this "tone"? What is it you are both looking for?


Cilla
 
This is my take not the standard definition by any means - Tone is the entire structure of the instrument from the initial leading edge attack and it's harmonic make up and decay all bundled into one envelope of energy. To me it it is an ever ending? challenge to get a complete envelope. When we hear the bow go across the strings of the cello for instance we get the entire envelope, the cello has the warmth of the spruce and maple from it's body the strings are of gut and the bow is carbon fiber - just like the original. To hear this live unamplified is a beautiful heart warming experience that is complete or whole. To achieve this energy envelope in a home playback system, as in the entire envelope and feeling is the pinnacle of tone. Pick any instrument or vocalist - the cello was only an example. To have it reproduced without the connection of the entire envelope leaves me unsatisified, unfullfilled, and empty of the true meaning of the music. Can it be done completely as in the entire energy envelope? With the right recording it can sometimes be somewhat believable. Using high efficiency drivers, boxless enclosures, and a good front end seems to get most of the envelope in my room.
 

ttan98

Member
2006-04-04 11:24 am
Melb
Re: Re: Re: Sensitive Wide Range OB - Update - Tonemaster

Magnetar said:


It's not exactly neutral but measures really flat in the midrange - I have more accurate midrange drivers like the JBL 2123 that sound very good but don't sound like this. An analogy would be the accurate JBL sounds like a good solid state amplifier where the Lil' Buddy sounds like a direct heated single ended 45 triode amp. In other words it's fast, direct, warm, lush and romantic. More 'whole' - probably has just the right amount of even harmonics distortion to please me.....

The mod is simply removing the dustcap and installing a phase plug - the plugs in mine are temporary - made from wax.. The driver uses hemp for the cone and has hemp for the surround - it's different

Thanks sounds interesting I may try it one day as the cost of the driver is not too expensive.

The Hempcone I tried from Hemp acoustics sounds a little dark and also it has a dip in the mid range even though the bass is very good.
 
AdamThorne said:
I have spotted your experimentation with this driver on a few different threads. I'm not personally in a position to have such large speakers in my living room, but I like to hear about a large and efficient midbass. Hopefully the experimentation with this driver will continue!

The driver shouldn't really be considered midbass in this application. I use it solely as a midrange. The bass is all handled by the other five ten inch woofers. They have the ability to move much more air in the lower frequencies then the single Lil' Buddy. That's what you need to 'keep up' with the driver used as a midrange.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Sensitive Wide Range OB - Update - Tonemaster

ttan98 said:


Thanks sounds interesting I may try it one day as the cost of the driver is not too expensive.

The Hempcone I tried from Hemp acoustics sounds a little dark and also it has a dip in the mid range even though the bass is very good.

Listening to the driver by itself fullrange it is dark, but on an open baffle used as a midrange it has what I'll call high midrange resolution density or HMRD :D
 
pdan said:
Thank you very much. Your concise clarity has helped me a great deal.


It really is much deeper then this from a home playback point of view - for example look at the radiation of a cello at different frequencies/notes/harmonics - it is very complex - the ability to fully capture this with a microphone (as well as the other 11 cellists and the rest of the orchestra ) and play it back with the entire energy envelope in tact is asking a lot. - I find that many of the older simpler miked recordings are superior

The dipole radiation and lack of most box colorations imposed upon the envelope helps in my experience from a speaker/room perspective but you also must have the dynamics and feeling of ease of the real thing. The dynamics are a big part of the energy envelope. This requires moving lots of air with as little compression of the envelope as possible. Most speakers and home 'high end' systems fail miserably in this respect.


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Loudness curves for two violins. The upper curve represents a fine Stradivarius, while the lower curve represents a relatively poor-quality violin. W represents the main wood resonance, A represents the air resonance, and W1 represents the wood prime resonance. (From "The Physics of Violins," by Carleen Maley Hutchins. Published by Scientific American, Inc.)

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Sound radiation patterns at four resonant frequencies of a Martin D-28 folk guitar. In all three patterns, the sound hole is pointing downward. (From "Sound Radiation from Classical and Folk Guitars," by J. Popp and T.D. Rossing.


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