Wow, I thought US practice was different than Canada, but Australia is wildly different. Over here, you can't have more than 1 earth rod per installation, although I think that is what a local inspector wants and not CEC.
In any case if you were going to make a super-audio grounded outlet I think just focusing on lowering the impedance of the run to the panel would be best.
In any case if you were going to make a super-audio grounded outlet I think just focusing on lowering the impedance of the run to the panel would be best.
Multiple earth electrodes connected to a common point outside of the soil to which they are fitted is a bad idea, illegal and without benefit (its all bad).
A sub-mains supply from the main switchboard to a sub-board via twin active (neutral is considered active) cable with discrete earth electrode is not a problem. Have done it many times (all signed off) and for the reasons WRT fault loop impedance. Two electrodes, only one 'main earth electrode', see AS3000/AS3008.
Only reason I can think why people want/prefer this for audio reasons is induced voltage (noise) onto all conductors, including the the earth conductor in a common cable. Earth cable is then connected to chassis and (usually) signal common at some point within the amplifier (for example), and I suspect that may be why a discrete connection could be preferred.
Of course, if you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.
A sub-mains supply from the main switchboard to a sub-board via twin active (neutral is considered active) cable with discrete earth electrode is not a problem. Have done it many times (all signed off) and for the reasons WRT fault loop impedance. Two electrodes, only one 'main earth electrode', see AS3000/AS3008.
Only reason I can think why people want/prefer this for audio reasons is induced voltage (noise) onto all conductors, including the the earth conductor in a common cable. Earth cable is then connected to chassis and (usually) signal common at some point within the amplifier (for example), and I suspect that may be why a discrete connection could be preferred.
Of course, if you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.
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Proof will not be in the listening. It's BS. Properly designed equipment has no issue. Use balanced interconnects or Class II appliances before rewiring your house to fix some mythical audio issue.
NEC in the US requires you to drive another rod if you can't get below 25 ohms with one I believe. The difference is, that's just to lower the impedance and not some separate illegal connection.
Sorry but these ideas are plain unsafe. Possible actions based on that ideas are not allowed. To a layman some items may see simple but there is often a whole set of reasoning that comes with simple things. One might overlook why things are done how they are done and then compromise safety by introducing a non standard item. Solving non existing issues won't help anything, instead a "one off" situation will be created possibly dangerous to others than the one that created the situation. Responsibility should dictate NOT to want to create situations for others.
This thread should be locked.
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As often it is hard to read English as used by native speakers but I read this: "would I be better off driving a ground rod outside my house for each amplifier and grounding the amplifiers separately?"
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Until the next one?.. what, do you sell power conditioners or something else?.. if you say its safety concern, thanks, but its all been addressed, back to dinner perhaps? ..
Which ideas, and who are you - which electrical tickets do you currently hold?
No one has presented the Universal Guide to House Wiring 101.
All I have suggested is how its done to good effect, in accordance with AS3000 and AS3008, and that this may not apply to your country.
You don't know, in other words have no idea, and cannot substantiate anything which you write, with any standard.
You should step off, too.
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I really don't care if you are an electrician in some other country. This is still a bad idea for an AV system. Don't be daft. It's unclear what the OP would actually do.
Note that I wasn't replying to you with that comment, so step-off.
No one gives a damn about what the code is in Australia, either. The OP is in the US.
I'll be sure to consult you when I want something completely stupid done if I ever move to Australia.
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Show me a country in the western world where bypassing a breaker box (also by a layman) is allowed.
There often is a 101 guide to wiring a house in civilized areas. These may be different from country to country but there is a set of rules to do stuff safely. If you investigate you will discover that there are more similarities than differences as globalization marches on. In low voltage not as much but mid- and high voltage systems are very similar internationally.
Your statement that I don't know and can't show (what exactly?) either does not hold true when you use the terms AS3000 and AS3008 to a person like the OP living in the USA 🙂 A country that does not care about any standard from elsewhere.
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25 ohms?.. 'I believe'
This is the REAL harm - stop posting.
Try 0.6 Ohm
From where to where, or can't you say, because you dont know?.. and whats your licence number, thats right, you dont have one.. step-off.
Unreal. Get a licensed person.
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You misread posts, behave rudely and edit posts after someone reacts to your statements....
You are going too far. But we respect your knowledge, God of the electro world in Australia. How can you possibly know what others do and don't know?
You are going too far. But we respect your knowledge, God of the electro world in Australia. How can you possibly know what others do and don't know?
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This is the subject and first post in this thread:
This was my reaction, please tell me what is wrong in my post:
OP states to bypass a breaker box and to possibly use 2 PE electrodes in the ground. Of course my reaction is to the OP. IF you are a licensed electro guy (I am low and mid voltage certified BTW) then persuading a layman NOT to do possible unsafe stuff should be in the code. As it IS in mine I try to explain to OP that he better does not mess with apparent simple stuff that is defined according a set of rules with many a reason often not seen, known or understood by a layman. Also that any attempt to do stuff as a "one off' by a layman possibly injures others.
Your way of trolling, receive reactions and then edit your posts several times when you notice it is you that is the culprit shows weakness.
This was my reaction, please tell me what is wrong in my post:
OP states to bypass a breaker box and to possibly use 2 PE electrodes in the ground. Of course my reaction is to the OP. IF you are a licensed electro guy (I am low and mid voltage certified BTW) then persuading a layman NOT to do possible unsafe stuff should be in the code. As it IS in mine I try to explain to OP that he better does not mess with apparent simple stuff that is defined according a set of rules with many a reason often not seen, known or understood by a layman. Also that any attempt to do stuff as a "one off' by a layman possibly injures others.
Your way of trolling, receive reactions and then edit your posts several times when you notice it is you that is the culprit shows weakness.
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National Electrical Code Section 250-56. Are you deranged? Perhaps your license should be revoked.
I was not giving advice, I was merely explaining to someone asking about the legality of having more than one rod driven in NA. I added a qualifier, as well. I'm not pretending to be a licensed electrician, unlike you who seem to be pretending they know what complies with NEC in the US even though you aren't licensed or practicing in the US.
No one cares if you're an electrician. The OP is asking to do dumb stuff, you read way too much into it and post all kinds of useless information and then freak out.
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Thank you Sam. It's about time some common knowledge was applied, instead of opinions. Everything you suggested would have been done just as you said. The independent ground rods would be 20 feet apart from each other.
To the poster who said they shudder to think what romex from the pole would look like .... Seriously? This isn't the Beverly Hillbillies. Although there is many kinds of romex, including direct burial, mine would NOT be seen. It would be installed inside 1.5" electrical conduit, buried 2 ft underground. It would run directly to the electrical panel box and into the bottom of it, where I was going to use inline fuses instead of the box itself. At the house, the conduit would turn and run into the wall via a small water tight electrical box. So you would not see it. Only the bare copper ground going to the clamp on the ground rod beside the conduit entry box.
While I was looking for any new good ideas, I'm a retired master plumber who has built and wired about 30 complete homes. Including the electrical system. BUT I'm not as good as an experienced electrician, just as they come to me for plumbing. I was not going to do my own work. Always was going to be an electrician doing the labor. I am crippled.
I was not sucking anyone in to argue, but trying to see if there was any newer information or tricks. THE ONLY REASON I'm even considering this, is my Icepower manual. I have NEVER seen any company go so on and on about how critical electrical noise is with their amps!!! They go SO FAR, as including the building plans for a crazy electrical isolation box to put the amps inside of if needed!!! Paranoid level stuff. Since I planned on rewiring a lot of things around the workshop and listening room, I figured I would just eliminate another opportunity for noise to creep in. Nothing I have mentioned is THAT different from any normal houses set up. You can relax about the work I'm proposing.
Even if whatever you end up doing is safe and legal, it's not going to do anything. You're wasting your time and energy.
The reason why the manual of B&O is so cautious is a thing coming from a country far away from here and spreading across Europa fast. It is about evading any possible liability to any negative result a customer would/could experience when using the product. You could of course buy your own mid to low voltage transformer and have a clean power supply for your home but if the amplifiers are that sensitive maybe it is time to find less sensitive ones 🙂
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Wow you are way out there. If you ever have a professional company design a dedicated sound room, with dedicated lines, they will be doing THE SAME things for you. The power COMES FROM the electrical box. Bypassing it just means not using the breaker spaces in the box. Where my lines do not share the same legs holding the other breakers. Called isolated lines. I'm just not having a slave pole put in like true complete isolated lines.
PS ... ground to earth is ground. Sheesh! Shortest ground path is best. No licenses needed for this logic. Please stop making this out like I'm hiring a bunch of Hillbillies on meth from the local drop house. I should have never started this thread on a high end audio forum. I am sorry for that!
No you should not have on a high end forum but since this is a DIY audio forum everything is OK 🙂 IF you know what you are talking about then you would not have posed the questions and certainly not because of certain amplifier modules as a reason. You also gave the impression that is was you as a layman doing the stuff yourself, AFAIK you did not mention an electrician doing the work from the start. So people try to persuade you not to do things in your own interest How nice is that!
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