Bit of a Noob question, but is there a website/catalogue you can go to that can simplify selecting drivers that would be good matches for a DIY two way or three way design?
In my case, the design would be for general stereo casual listening
Ideally, for my "best bang for buck" design, I would be looking at Dayton Audio drivers, but I'm really open to any/all suggestions.
It's the matching of drivers that I need help.
I'm just finishing a set of speakers where I selected drivers that turned out not to be a particularly good match.
Problem is that the crossover design doesn't rear it's ugly head until you've designed and built the enclosures, and done your SPL/Impedance testing.
In my case, the design would be for general stereo casual listening
Ideally, for my "best bang for buck" design, I would be looking at Dayton Audio drivers, but I'm really open to any/all suggestions.
It's the matching of drivers that I need help.
I'm just finishing a set of speakers where I selected drivers that turned out not to be a particularly good match.
Problem is that the crossover design doesn't rear it's ugly head until you've designed and built the enclosures, and done your SPL/Impedance testing.
I've done many hours of looking and haven't found a site like that either; perhaps the best way to look at driver matching is to look at many DIY projects by noted designers on various fora and see what they use and why. Usually, the designers' write ups discuss those issues in a way which isn't too technical.
There are commercial kits which use readily available drivers such as Peerless, SB Acoustics and Vifa. While not listing the crossover design, they include a BoM and you can usually work out what goes where. Speaker design competitions such as MWAF or the Dayton sponsored speaker design competition in the US can also bring up some interesting designs, I've built one such project and was very pleased with it.
If you let us know what you've used, people might be able to suggest a crossover and cabinet design, or suggest an alternative to one of the drivers which could work for you.
Good luck
Geoff
There are commercial kits which use readily available drivers such as Peerless, SB Acoustics and Vifa. While not listing the crossover design, they include a BoM and you can usually work out what goes where. Speaker design competitions such as MWAF or the Dayton sponsored speaker design competition in the US can also bring up some interesting designs, I've built one such project and was very pleased with it.
If you let us know what you've used, people might be able to suggest a crossover and cabinet design, or suggest an alternative to one of the drivers which could work for you.
Good luck
Geoff
It is a FAST setup, with a Dayton RS225 (8") in a TL, with a Vifa TD9FD18 (3.5") in a sealed box.
Finding a suitable Xover is going to be a bit difficult - maybe around 1kHz.
The 3.5" cone is also not as sensitive as the 8", so I'll probably need to attenuate the 8" a bit.
I'll know more when I do the in-enclosure testing.
Hi Geoff
I think your idea of poaching ideas from noted designers is the best. Also understanding the philosophy of their Xovers would be a great help.
However, that might caused me to end up where I first was when I started this current project 6 months ago - looking for a recommended kit (remember?). But then I got the building bug again.😡
Checking driver combinations used in some of those big US competitions would also be a great idea.
Not a bad choice of design and drivers.
You could xover lower in freq, circa 500/600hz imho.
What are your box dimension ( width)?
You'll find some inspiration from there i bet:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-waw-ref-monitor.273524/page-188#post-7077022/
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So the baffle step is going to set the lowest you should cross without making it hard for yourself. It's probably better to cross low, so in a sense this answers your question on where to cross.
The building bug and the designing bug are two different things.
You can easily satisfy the building bug with great results by simply using a design from one of the experts that knows what they are doing. Many kits are available over a wide range of prices. And that is just as much DIY as designing it yourself.
Or you can try to persue the designing bug and likley repeat your previous experience.
@krivium @AllenB I think what you're saying is cross around the start (top) of the baffle step, to avoid fighting the higher SPL of the woofer above the baffle step.
It means that my 3.5" mid/high driver is going to do the majority of the work.
The other thing that annoys me is the majority of the design and build has been the transmission line for the 8", who's factory SPL is beatiful and smooth right up to 1800Hz.
However, it is what it is.😉
It means that my 3.5" mid/high driver is going to do the majority of the work.
The other thing that annoys me is the majority of the design and build has been the transmission line for the 8", who's factory SPL is beatiful and smooth right up to 1800Hz.
However, it is what it is.😉
Yeah, I should have really said "designing bug".
I'm not much for woodwork, but I do like the challenge of designing enclosures, crossovers, etc. to try and achieve the best I can using my own imput (and available software).
To avoid the lower SPL of the mid below it.
Before you decide whether your cross is going to overwhelm the mid, how about simming it to find out where the crossover will happen?
Of course. Thanks Allen.
I've been learning how to use VituixCAD v2 using the factory FRDs and ZMAs, but can't really do anything serious until I do my own testing.
With those drivers, and the ideas linked in post 8 above - which I think includes a crossover for those very drivers - you should get a pretty decent sounding speaker for your purposes.
I've seen the Dayton RS225-4 used with a Vifa TC-7, it won its category in the Dayton sponsored speaker competition a few years ago.
Geoff
I've seen the Dayton RS225-4 used with a Vifa TC-7, it won its category in the Dayton sponsored speaker competition a few years ago.
Geoff
Thanks Geoff
I saved the link, but haven't fully read it yet.
I had read most of that thread, and it's where I got my inspiration for this project.
But once I had established my own design with Hornresp, I stopped following the thread, so missed the post krivium suggested.
@krivium Thanks krivium, great find.
I also haven't explored the Dayton DIY competition yet.
They're a useful thing to explore; although few of the projects have cabinet and crossover details, they specify the drivers used; great for ideas. Some of the winners/entrants may share those details with you if you ask nicely, as I did with two projects. Sometimes, full details of the speakers are posted in the Parts Express Tech Talk or Projects Forum, which is great. For example, I built a MTM with Peerless and Vifa drivers which placed a close second in the "Best Iron Driver" competition.
Geoff
Hi Nordo,
But few drivers brands like SB Acoustics with a kit section, you will have hard time to find such sites you are looking for. I think though with the rise of A.I. it should exist one day but although makes the hobby less fun.
About the Baffle step compensation you can calculate it with such shareware tools thanks the kindness of enthusiasts contributors : http://www.mh-audio.nl/Loudspeakers.html#top
BSC calculator gives you the half point of the bafle step attenuation curve, usually as said above it is easier to cutt off below that point in a classic design.
The drivers selected are well known and good choice, following KRK971 thread a no brainer.
Others way is to follow enthusiasts diy website too : Troels Gravsen has some free designs if you dig with filter values offered side to side commercial offers. Jeff Bagby, Paul Carmody, etc, have site that describe kits in free access.
But few drivers brands like SB Acoustics with a kit section, you will have hard time to find such sites you are looking for. I think though with the rise of A.I. it should exist one day but although makes the hobby less fun.
About the Baffle step compensation you can calculate it with such shareware tools thanks the kindness of enthusiasts contributors : http://www.mh-audio.nl/Loudspeakers.html#top
BSC calculator gives you the half point of the bafle step attenuation curve, usually as said above it is easier to cutt off below that point in a classic design.
The drivers selected are well known and good choice, following KRK971 thread a no brainer.
Others way is to follow enthusiasts diy website too : Troels Gravsen has some free designs if you dig with filter values offered side to side commercial offers. Jeff Bagby, Paul Carmody, etc, have site that describe kits in free access.
@diyiggy Thanks for the info.
I have had a good look at Paul Carmody's site, and am very familiar with Jeff Bagby.
I will be using VituixCAD which has a built-in BSC calculator.
However, I will be doing outdoor testing of the speakers (FRD & ZMA) before starting on the crossocer design, so the FRDs should include all the enclosure effects.
Keep in mind that I'm talking about my current project.
My original post was regarding averting the problem of maybe starting a future project with drivers that perhaps aren't the best match for a two way or three way.
Thanks to my current project, I am now realising how ciritcal it is to select drivers that suit each other.
If you have achieved that, then my newbie logic says that crossover design should be much easier.
I have had a good look at Paul Carmody's site, and am very familiar with Jeff Bagby.
I will be using VituixCAD which has a built-in BSC calculator.
However, I will be doing outdoor testing of the speakers (FRD & ZMA) before starting on the crossocer design, so the FRDs should include all the enclosure effects.
Keep in mind that I'm talking about my current project.
My original post was regarding averting the problem of maybe starting a future project with drivers that perhaps aren't the best match for a two way or three way.
Thanks to my current project, I am now realising how ciritcal it is to select drivers that suit each other.
If you have achieved that, then my newbie logic says that crossover design should be much easier.
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The obvious problem about the choice is always the low end driver cause we want more efficienty than the upper drivers. And the greater the efficienty if you look at the 2,83V spl at 1 m from the datasheets, the earlier the low roll off...i.e. less bass. If you cope with Dayton, Peereless, SB Acoustics for the mid or woofer as well as tweeter , you can not go wrong on the Q/P.
Once you will do your sims for the baffle size you realise soon all the mess of the said baffle loss...add this the difractions due to the edges of the cabinet, you see the story is not as plane as an oil sea.
The Edge free soft is easy to make rapid sim about front baffle size and difractions and BSC, before progressing with Vitruix.
Active with minidsp will you save tons of monney for crossovers. The guys at HTGuide also favor a lot your woofer choice which can be also the fundation of a 3 ways too for further project.
Once you will do your sims for the baffle size you realise soon all the mess of the said baffle loss...add this the difractions due to the edges of the cabinet, you see the story is not as plane as an oil sea.
The Edge free soft is easy to make rapid sim about front baffle size and difractions and BSC, before progressing with Vitruix.
Active with minidsp will you save tons of monney for crossovers. The guys at HTGuide also favor a lot your woofer choice which can be also the fundation of a 3 ways too for further project.
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