Does the aluminum cone of the 10.2 have breakup modes also? Are they just pushed way up in the 30's? I haven't seen anything on the subject regarding the MA drivers. The Seas looks no worse to me than the offerings from TB or Fostex in the response. Would a suitable horn raise the efficiency of the low end with the Seas or are we looking at a super complicated build? I really like the look and simplicity of the Pensil series, (which is steering me towards the Alpair 10.2).
FA22rcz
Hello,
it has a good test in KLANG&TON,
and would work superb in my Sat horns, no crossover, fullrange,
down to 100 Hz, ~96 dB1W1m, you need a good sub.
Look my Horn- , Schalmei- , Trumpet-Sat.
Also work in my double horns, bass down ~30 Hz, no bass impedanz flat~4 Ohm,
look my RDH 20, Saxophon, Posaune XL.
New technology very good for tube amps, all ~98 dB 1W1m
look measurements, feedback and plan.
Hello,
it has a good test in KLANG&TON,
and would work superb in my Sat horns, no crossover, fullrange,
down to 100 Hz, ~96 dB1W1m, you need a good sub.
Look my Horn- , Schalmei- , Trumpet-Sat.
Also work in my double horns, bass down ~30 Hz, no bass impedanz flat~4 Ohm,
look my RDH 20, Saxophon, Posaune XL.
New technology very good for tube amps, all ~98 dB 1W1m
look measurements, feedback and plan.
Attachments
this seems to have been resurrected....
I did quite a lot of testing with these 12 to 18 months ago but I don't recall posting any results...so if anybody is still interested in these:
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/vofo4-fa22-v1.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/vofo4-fa22-v2.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/vofo4-fa22-v3.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/vofo4-fa22-v4.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/sfa-notes.jpg
I recall that in the tqwp I was testing, the bass was almost untameable. As I progressively choked the port the bass came more into line and was eventually quite controlled and tuneful, but lumpy. Ultimately, the cabinet I was using had far too much volume, and I lost interest for pursuing the closed box tests.
clio results are in the notes file...
I am creeping up on putting them in an 18" diameter sphere, which I'm hoping will make them more room independent.
I did quite a lot of testing with these 12 to 18 months ago but I don't recall posting any results...so if anybody is still interested in these:
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/vofo4-fa22-v1.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/vofo4-fa22-v2.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/vofo4-fa22-v3.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/vofo4-fa22-v4.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/sfa-notes.jpg
I recall that in the tqwp I was testing, the bass was almost untameable. As I progressively choked the port the bass came more into line and was eventually quite controlled and tuneful, but lumpy. Ultimately, the cabinet I was using had far too much volume, and I lost interest for pursuing the closed box tests.
clio results are in the notes file...
I am creeping up on putting them in an 18" diameter sphere, which I'm hoping will make them more room independent.
I think "hm" makes a valid argument for horn loading these drivers and they match up similarly to other 8" fullrange for this approach. Although response dips at 400 and 700Hz are visible and I would think are the result of phase cancellation at the horn length. (85cm)
My interest in these, was the hope of high efficiency (95db) and fairly flat down to possibly 100Hz. Horn loading these accomplishes this, but again, those dips. I find many 8" pro drivers that have the efficiency and flat response but roll off at closer to 130Hz in a sealed box. Porting will show typ. 75Hz corners, but again a port response dip.
My interest in these, was the hope of high efficiency (95db) and fairly flat down to possibly 100Hz. Horn loading these accomplishes this, but again, those dips. I find many 8" pro drivers that have the efficiency and flat response but roll off at closer to 130Hz in a sealed box. Porting will show typ. 75Hz corners, but again a port response dip.
terryaaa,
the effect depends on the construction itself,
short BL low mid horn, as my HORN Sat
wiki: Harshness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
you see the feedbacks show the effect is not
important, more: dynamic, soundstage, lifelikeness.
The Schalmei-sat is smaller and in normal rooms
a bit better.
the effect depends on the construction itself,
short BL low mid horn, as my HORN Sat
wiki: Harshness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
you see the feedbacks show the effect is not
important, more: dynamic, soundstage, lifelikeness.
The Schalmei-sat is smaller and in normal rooms
a bit better.
Depends on your needs & tastes. The pricey SEAS AlNiCo probably outperforms it. The FA22 is one of the priciest i have experienced over a long period. I have a pair in sealed boxes downstairs.
There are drivers i would choose before FA22 but so much depends. Room, placement, taste, support kit, box limitations, WAF, and (not within the bounds of your question) budget.
dave
There are drivers i would choose before FA22 but so much depends. Room, placement, taste, support kit, box limitations, WAF, and (not within the bounds of your question) budget.
dave
Thanks Dave! I like From Jazz to Fusion to Rock, a variety of 20th Century genres, classic stuff.
I have a room of ~36m² for my listening hours, not that huge room, so I'm becoming interested also in full range possibilities (other than 2-ways spks).
Which other drivers would you choose before the FA22? Is the pricey one the X1-08 EXOTIC F8?
By the way, I found your TL project really interesting!
http://p10hifi.net/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/classicTL-revisited-WD.pdf
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Yes that is the one. If this is your first FR build you should start with a more modestly priced loudspeaker.
Where are you? That will affect what you can easily get and what they cost.
I’d choose Mark Audio Alpair 10.3/p/11ms in Frugel-Horn XL, Pensil (or other TL). That gives a good mix of bass, efficiency, and FR magic. I actually like the A7.3 better, but for most people what you gain in the mid/top (if you have the front end to appreciate it) you lose in bass potential.
I mostly listen to a set of A7.3eN (all the drivers we use and listen to are EnABLed) supported by 2 x Alpair 12pWeN midbass drivers in a big ML-TL. XO downsides are really minimal, and no compromise at any end of the spectrum with significant loudness capability (with enuff amp). At a much greater cost too.
You can always integrate (sub)woofers later if you need to go lower and louder.
My FA22 are also EnABLed with phase plugs installed.
Scott & i did that TL as an excersize in optimizing the Radford folding. We did it just as that kit was originally released. Now, a decade & a half later, if i had the bass drivers i’d likely out them in an ML-TL and swap out the tweeter for a 3 or 4” FR.
dave
Where are you? That will affect what you can easily get and what they cost.
I’d choose Mark Audio Alpair 10.3/p/11ms in Frugel-Horn XL, Pensil (or other TL). That gives a good mix of bass, efficiency, and FR magic. I actually like the A7.3 better, but for most people what you gain in the mid/top (if you have the front end to appreciate it) you lose in bass potential.
I mostly listen to a set of A7.3eN (all the drivers we use and listen to are EnABLed) supported by 2 x Alpair 12pWeN midbass drivers in a big ML-TL. XO downsides are really minimal, and no compromise at any end of the spectrum with significant loudness capability (with enuff amp). At a much greater cost too.
You can always integrate (sub)woofers later if you need to go lower and louder.
My FA22 are also EnABLed with phase plugs installed.
Scott & i did that TL as an excersize in optimizing the Radford folding. We did it just as that kit was originally released. Now, a decade & a half later, if i had the bass drivers i’d likely out them in an ML-TL and swap out the tweeter for a 3 or 4” FR.
dave
I'm located in Holland, EU.
Do you have a thread or photos for the A7.3eN + double 12pWeN ? What are EnABLed drivers? (starting FR journey these days)
I find the idea of using a 3 or 4" FR to replace the tweeter in that TL also interesting. If you ever go ahead with such a project, I'd like to see it.
The X1-08 EXOTIC F8 looks nice, but indeed, price for each drivers is a "little bit" too high for now...
Thanks a million for suggestions!
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There should be a thread. I’ll see if i ca find it. Here is a picture:
This is an example of a class of speaker called WAW (Woofer Assisted Wideband) also historically FAST (the acronym makes no sense so i can’t remember it). It is a 2-way that attempts to maintain the magic of FR with as much bass as you are willing to throw resources at. Often one sees a movement from multi-ways to FR and then WAW (if bass/levels/dynamics prove insufficient from the FRs you try).
The spots on the cone are the EnABL (you will find some controversary around it, mainly from those who have never heard what it does). EnABL is not restricted to FR drivers.
EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques
dave
This is an example of a class of speaker called WAW (Woofer Assisted Wideband) also historically FAST (the acronym makes no sense so i can’t remember it). It is a 2-way that attempts to maintain the magic of FR with as much bass as you are willing to throw resources at. Often one sees a movement from multi-ways to FR and then WAW (if bass/levels/dynamics prove insufficient from the FRs you try).
The spots on the cone are the EnABL (you will find some controversary around it, mainly from those who have never heard what it does). EnABL is not restricted to FR drivers.
EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques
dave
I believe bob brines also started moving away to a waw.
Seems reasonable, especially if it is 6db for time alignment.
Djk said people like full range until they want a little more full range.
Some like sparkly ribbons, some want better dispersion, some want more bass, etc.
I enjoy my 8" full range, but dispersion is barely enough for 1 person at 7'.
Seems reasonable, especially if it is 6db for time alignment.
Djk said people like full range until they want a little more full range.
Some like sparkly ribbons, some want better dispersion, some want more bass, etc.
I enjoy my 8" full range, but dispersion is barely enough for 1 person at 7'.
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