Any comments one this 2 way high end speaker kit from Seas?
18cm Nextel coated paper cone woofer and a very expensive new 29mm tweeter.
http://www.mamut.net/dynabel/the_bifrost.pdf
They have chosen a EBS alignment - what does that
mean?
18cm Nextel coated paper cone woofer and a very expensive new 29mm tweeter.
http://www.mamut.net/dynabel/the_bifrost.pdf
They have chosen a EBS alignment - what does that
mean?
I didn't see any info anywhere yet. I guess there wouldn't be too many risk takers out there, because the drivers are sooo expensive.
EBS - means extended bass shelf.
Basically the box and port are tuned not to give a smooth roll off but to give an initial roll off followed by a shelf followed by a second roll off.
They must have only used a fairly subtle EBS in this alignment as the shelf region is not obvious.
The advantage of this is that you get more low bass, the disadvantage is that this is at the expense of some mid bass.
Regards,
Andrew
Basically the box and port are tuned not to give a smooth roll off but to give an initial roll off followed by a shelf followed by a second roll off.
They must have only used a fairly subtle EBS in this alignment as the shelf region is not obvious.
The advantage of this is that you get more low bass, the disadvantage is that this is at the expense of some mid bass.
Regards,
Andrew
Hi,
I'd say for similar performance and performance / dollar it would struggle against Zaph's : http://www.zaphaudio.com/SR71.html
🙂/sreten.
I'd say for similar performance and performance / dollar it would struggle against Zaph's : http://www.zaphaudio.com/SR71.html
🙂/sreten.
Sorry for the late response.
I made the bifrost, but I adjusted the model to a floorstanding model. Filter remained the same. Only because of the larger inductor resistance on the midbass coils, I also increased the box net volume to 19 liters.
I only have them playing verry recently so don't ask me how they sound. My taste can also be different than yours.
Regards,
Tim
I made the bifrost, but I adjusted the model to a floorstanding model. Filter remained the same. Only because of the larger inductor resistance on the midbass coils, I also increased the box net volume to 19 liters.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I only have them playing verry recently so don't ask me how they sound. My taste can also be different than yours.
Regards,
Tim
I would not use the Crescendo tweeter - Zaph's test:
"Seas Crescendo ($263) - Seas new flagship tweeter, very expensive. Great build quality and looks, visually matching the Nextel painted woofers. While it does perform a little better than the Millenium, it's still merely average in linear and non-linear distortion."
The $40 SEAS 27TBFC/G is superior to the Excel tweeters. Quite frankly I'm baffled that SEAS would sell ultra expensive tweeters that they must know are not as good as their very affordable "standard" models - they should swap names and price tags with the TBFC/G, but I hope they don't.
"Seas Crescendo ($263) - Seas new flagship tweeter, very expensive. Great build quality and looks, visually matching the Nextel painted woofers. While it does perform a little better than the Millenium, it's still merely average in linear and non-linear distortion."
The $40 SEAS 27TBFC/G is superior to the Excel tweeters. Quite frankly I'm baffled that SEAS would sell ultra expensive tweeters that they must know are not as good as their very affordable "standard" models - they should swap names and price tags with the TBFC/G, but I hope they don't.
HI
From Troels :
"The T29CF001 is a magnificent tweeter. The Sonomex cone material appears to be a good compromise between hard domes and soft domes. The Sonomex is significantly more rigid compared to classic silk domes and the frequency response should reach up to 30 kHz according to SEAS measurements. My CLIO system only goes to 22 kHz."
and 001vs002:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/CNO.htm
From Troels :
"The T29CF001 is a magnificent tweeter. The Sonomex cone material appears to be a good compromise between hard domes and soft domes. The Sonomex is significantly more rigid compared to classic silk domes and the frequency response should reach up to 30 kHz according to SEAS measurements. My CLIO system only goes to 22 kHz."
and 001vs002:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/CNO.htm
From what I can see based on Zaph's measurements of the drivers, this system really doesn't perform much better then the SR-71. Is it worth spending 3x or 4x the price of the SR-71? 
Ref: http://zaphaudio.com/6.5test/compare.html and http://zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/compare.html
Ref: http://zaphaudio.com/6.5test/compare.html and http://zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/compare.html
Well, measurements are something, listening test totally different story. If you want to know which drivers suit your needs more, buy the drivers for Zaph SR71 and Troels CNO. Test both designs in cheap enclosure and with cheap crossover components and you will find what you prefer more. 🙂
I built CNO and I am very satisfied, but have not build the SR71 so no comments on this design.
I built CNO and I am very satisfied, but have not build the SR71 so no comments on this design.
sr71 are good speaker ,the CNO are top speaker, all dipends level quality of cd-amp...
If you love music CNO have good price for 15year....
not last the possibility to upgrade http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AcapellaNEXT.htm
very definitive ,with mid in OB!!!!
If you love music CNO have good price for 15year....
not last the possibility to upgrade http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AcapellaNEXT.htm
very definitive ,with mid in OB!!!!
Just wanted to add that the CNO version has a higher x-over frequency. It helps the tweeter with it's distortion levels at lower frequencies... on the other hand, the increased x-over frequency approaches the woofer's break-up frequency... it's a tough trade.
A listening test between the CNO and the original Bifrost as the drivers are the same and the x-over parts are relatively inexpensive except for the largest inductor which can be expensive depending on what type you choose.
PS: In my previous post I might have been too harsh on the Bifrost's woofer, I really meant to say it was a little better but in my opinion not enough to justify the price.
A listening test between the CNO and the original Bifrost as the drivers are the same and the x-over parts are relatively inexpensive except for the largest inductor which can be expensive depending on what type you choose.
PS: In my previous post I might have been too harsh on the Bifrost's woofer, I really meant to say it was a little better but in my opinion not enough to justify the price.
hi peter , yes this driver are very good....
I'm on scanspeak side from 20year ,I have ellam, the troels xover sound fantastic !!!!(2300hz)
I'm on scanspeak side from 20year ,I have ellam, the troels xover sound fantastic !!!!(2300hz)
Hi nicoch46,
strange that on Troel's site he has this graph showing a much higher X-over point then 2300hz: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/CNO_files/RC-circuit.GIF
Further in his page he shows this graph:http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/CNO_files/V2_series_rev-phase_W18height.jpg
His words:"Point of crossover is 2800 Hz."
What am I missing?
strange that on Troel's site he has this graph showing a much higher X-over point then 2300hz: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/CNO_files/RC-circuit.GIF
Further in his page he shows this graph:http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/CNO_files/V2_series_rev-phase_W18height.jpg
His words:"Point of crossover is 2800 Hz."
What am I missing?
eheh,sorry 2300hz are for my speaker Ellam ,Cno are 2800hz!!
not too much difference but I have 5,25" driver, CNO are 6,5"but don't worry troels know what do!
not too much difference but I have 5,25" driver, CNO are 6,5"but don't worry troels know what do!
nicoch46 said:
I never said he didn't. Just pointing out differences between the Bifrost and CNO. Didn't know we were talking about the Ellam...
Cheers,
well , the xover are quite difference serial vs parallel .
the second coil in series an seas design kill the woofer transient ,this from my personal experience on my scan 15w when change my xover with troels design...
the second coil in series an seas design kill the woofer transient ,this from my personal experience on my scan 15w when change my xover with troels design...
Some more pictures.
Furthermore some comments on the cost. At a certain level the relation between price and performance is not justified anymore. And the discussions are just a matter of taste. I also bought these units for the looks. And I'm a happy man with this system.
Everybody has to make out for themselfes if they want to spend the money for these units.
greetz,
Tim
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Furthermore some comments on the cost. At a certain level the relation between price and performance is not justified anymore. And the discussions are just a matter of taste. I also bought these units for the looks. And I'm a happy man with this system.
Everybody has to make out for themselfes if they want to spend the money for these units.
greetz,
Tim