Hello,
I am interested in making a DIY speaker. I have read many very interesting posts by amazing experts here, but it is quite overwhelming.
I wonder if it is feasible to design a sealed bookcase enclosure for a full range driver to be used with a separate subwoofer. The full-range speakers would be on a bookshelf against a wall in a smallish room. The size of the enclosure can be up to 20 inches tall, 20 inches wide, 14 inches deep. Markaudio drivers seem very interesting. Since this would be my first attempt, I hesitate to use an expensive driver. Could something like the CHN 110 be used here?
The plans I have found are mostly ported, but what I have read about sealed enclosures are somehow appealing to me. If the sealed design is not feasible, then I am considering one of the CHN 110 box plans from the markaudio website. In this case, what subwoofer would be suitable to complement the full range speaker? I don't have a subwoofer yet.
Thank you.
I am interested in making a DIY speaker. I have read many very interesting posts by amazing experts here, but it is quite overwhelming.
I wonder if it is feasible to design a sealed bookcase enclosure for a full range driver to be used with a separate subwoofer. The full-range speakers would be on a bookshelf against a wall in a smallish room. The size of the enclosure can be up to 20 inches tall, 20 inches wide, 14 inches deep. Markaudio drivers seem very interesting. Since this would be my first attempt, I hesitate to use an expensive driver. Could something like the CHN 110 be used here?
The plans I have found are mostly ported, but what I have read about sealed enclosures are somehow appealing to me. If the sealed design is not feasible, then I am considering one of the CHN 110 box plans from the markaudio website. In this case, what subwoofer would be suitable to complement the full range speaker? I don't have a subwoofer yet.
Thank you.
I do it (It's called a WAW aka a Woofer Assisted Wideband) with a Mark Audio Alpair 10.3P and a Scanspeak 26W8534G00 woofer, but you need to crossover higher often than a typical subwoofer would go with a ported.
The CHN110 sealed can work in a 12L sealed (more or less like i did with the Alpair that is in 11.5L) but then you will have to crossover above 150Hz i think and keep them (the fullrange and the woofer) aligned to get a good stereo image. So you need a woofer that can go low enough for your use and can get clean and flat to about 300Hz at least and preferable higher.
That Scanspeak i mention is not that expensive and can do that very good. I in my config with the Alpair 10.3 do it crossed at 250Hz with a 1st order (now) but i'm going to change it to a second order in the near future. The cabinet for the woofer is 77L sealed for an F6 (what matters sealed) of 31Hz. And i'm sure some other drivers are also very fit for that.
The SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 can do it slightly better in a 150L. If you want it cheaper you will have to go ported for the woofer, but then the Beyma 8BR40/N (in the EU) or the Dayton DCS305-4 (in the US) are good options.
But other options are also feasable. I actually like that CHN110 in my own design MLTL more than the Alpair 10.3/Scanspeak combo. It also goes low (F3 of 32Hz) on it's own on low volume. And other drivers are also good for that, smaller drivers with a higher crossover point often do it better on flatter frequency response and difraction (altough Mark Audio is very good at that in general).
Drawed plans for both designs are in the making, so i can't give them to you. But Scottmoose (here on the forum) has a similar plan for an MLTL with the CHN110 posted here a while ago. Ask him if you want it.
The CHN110 sealed can work in a 12L sealed (more or less like i did with the Alpair that is in 11.5L) but then you will have to crossover above 150Hz i think and keep them (the fullrange and the woofer) aligned to get a good stereo image. So you need a woofer that can go low enough for your use and can get clean and flat to about 300Hz at least and preferable higher.
That Scanspeak i mention is not that expensive and can do that very good. I in my config with the Alpair 10.3 do it crossed at 250Hz with a 1st order (now) but i'm going to change it to a second order in the near future. The cabinet for the woofer is 77L sealed for an F6 (what matters sealed) of 31Hz. And i'm sure some other drivers are also very fit for that.
The SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 can do it slightly better in a 150L. If you want it cheaper you will have to go ported for the woofer, but then the Beyma 8BR40/N (in the EU) or the Dayton DCS305-4 (in the US) are good options.
But other options are also feasable. I actually like that CHN110 in my own design MLTL more than the Alpair 10.3/Scanspeak combo. It also goes low (F3 of 32Hz) on it's own on low volume. And other drivers are also good for that, smaller drivers with a higher crossover point often do it better on flatter frequency response and difraction (altough Mark Audio is very good at that in general).
Drawed plans for both designs are in the making, so i can't give them to you. But Scottmoose (here on the forum) has a similar plan for an MLTL with the CHN110 posted here a while ago. Ask him if you want it.
Thank you so much for this useful advice - I wondered what WAW stood for. That is just what I'm thinking about.
My room doesn't have room for floor standing speakers which I understand MTLS speakers are. I understood that subwoofers are typically most useful for frequencies below 100 Hz due to directivity considerations.
So I think my follow-up question: If one were planning to use a subwoofer crossed around 80 or 100 Hz with a CHN 110, then which of these vented box plans would be most suitable?
https://www.markaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/CHN110-detail-box-plans.pdf
Ah, I just found a sealed box plan for the CHR 120:
CHR-120 | Markaudio
https://www.kjfaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CHR120-sealed-standmount.pdf
Well, it looks this driver in a vented box won't need a subwoofer. I'm interested in music (not movies) in a smallish room.
My room doesn't have room for floor standing speakers which I understand MTLS speakers are. I understood that subwoofers are typically most useful for frequencies below 100 Hz due to directivity considerations.
So I think my follow-up question: If one were planning to use a subwoofer crossed around 80 or 100 Hz with a CHN 110, then which of these vented box plans would be most suitable?
https://www.markaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/CHN110-detail-box-plans.pdf
Ah, I just found a sealed box plan for the CHR 120:
CHR-120 | Markaudio
https://www.kjfaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CHR120-sealed-standmount.pdf
Well, it looks this driver in a vented box won't need a subwoofer. I'm interested in music (not movies) in a smallish room.
The CHR120 can be good to about F3 of 35Hz in a reflex (50L with a 10cm diameter port of 31cm says a fast calculation). if that fits your need, that is the simplest solution in your case. The Classic 56 litre vented box in the plans of Mark Audio (designed by Scott) are very similar but i think the port (5cm dia and 7.5cm long) is to small to use the driver full open. The question is, will you do that (probally not). Those are fit to about 15w ( on each side i think before the port noise will be to high and that will be very loud in small room. So that may be a good cabinet for your need.
Sealed it's still not low enough to crossover that low i think. It's very similar to the CHN1110. If you would do it you will have to measure it right and calculate the curve of the roll off in the crossover as it will have an influence. And measuring that low without expensive tools and a anceionic room is hard to do, but not impossible. Probally to hard for a first build.
Sealed it's still not low enough to crossover that low i think. It's very similar to the CHN1110. If you would do it you will have to measure it right and calculate the curve of the roll off in the crossover as it will have an influence. And measuring that low without expensive tools and a anceionic room is hard to do, but not impossible. Probally to hard for a first build.
A big reflex box tuned for wall placement might very well eliminate a need for woofers. If you can do this it will likely cost less.
The 100Hz thing is for a single woofer.
Often, with sealed + woofer, you design a max flat box (Q=0.707) so that you can use the natural rolloff as the HP filter and get plate amps that have complentary 2nd order fiters.
Looking at the CHN-110, a butterworth sealed would be about 12 litres, and have an F3 of about 75 Hz (note F3 is only important in filters), F6 about 55, F10 low 40s. This is anechoic, push the against a wall and you will get lots of room gain. Might be enuff for your needs.
dave
The 100Hz thing is for a single woofer.
Often, with sealed + woofer, you design a max flat box (Q=0.707) so that you can use the natural rolloff as the HP filter and get plate amps that have complentary 2nd order fiters.
Looking at the CHN-110, a butterworth sealed would be about 12 litres, and have an F3 of about 75 Hz (note F3 is only important in filters), F6 about 55, F10 low 40s. This is anechoic, push the against a wall and you will get lots of room gain. Might be enuff for your needs.
dave
This is where detail & designer preference comes into play. I've noted you make this critique before (no offense taken, quite the reverse). For the sake of interest:
Peak air velocity through the duct (assuming the 50mm diameter) in the 56 litre box I designed at a nominal 1w input is approximately 7.6ms. It takes roughly 10w to hit peak excursion, assuming you have a signal with sufficient material < Fb to get the driver to move that far; at that point, velocity is hitting 25ms, or about 7.7% typical SoS at sea level. In practice, you're unlikely to be pushing the drivers this hard continuously, since peak excursion / power-handling in units like these is there to handle occasional LF dynamic peaks, not for high average SPLs.
Since design is about balancing compromises, my own preference for typical vented boxes is to always keep the 1/2 wave eigenmode of the duct > 1KHz, where it's very unlikely to be excited. The price is a slightly higher air velocity through the duct compared to one with a larger CSA. However, in my experience, assuming this is not particularly excessive to begin with, it's more or less inaudible when the duct is rear-mounted -which is my preference for many such designs anyway as I tend to build some assumptions of room-coupling & boundary loading into the alignment
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Using a sub with ported mains is very tricky business, due to phase issues. Sealed mains are much easier to work with. You have two choices with sealed mains.
1. Roll of the mains with a second-order Butterworth filter which results in a perfect 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley, roll the subs in LR4 at the monitors' anechoic -6dB point.
2. As explained by Planet 10:
I have two systems with a similar design philosophy.
My main system is Bamberg S5-MTM sealed monitors (Q= 0.707), running full range. I roll in a pair of subs, at 48Hz the monitors' -6dB point, with a Linkwitz-Riley 2nd-order filter. The sub filter is via a miniDSP 2x4, with REW room corrections.
I tried rolling off the Bamberg speakers with several types of crossover but was never satisfied, because the crossover always compromised the sound of the monitors.
My desktop system is a pair of Jordan JX92S full rangers in a curved 7L box. The Q is a bit high, about 0.9, but this adds a touch of warmth, which is welcome in this system. F3 is 70Hz. I don't use any baffle step correction, as the speakers sit on the desk against the wall. I use a Dayton sub with inboard BW 2nd-order filter, with the crossover set around 100Hz. The overlap adds a bit of warmth, a house curve if you will.
I am extremely happy with both my systems, and my audiophile friends seem impressed too.
1. Roll of the mains with a second-order Butterworth filter which results in a perfect 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley, roll the subs in LR4 at the monitors' anechoic -6dB point.
2. As explained by Planet 10:
I have two systems with a similar design philosophy.
My main system is Bamberg S5-MTM sealed monitors (Q= 0.707), running full range. I roll in a pair of subs, at 48Hz the monitors' -6dB point, with a Linkwitz-Riley 2nd-order filter. The sub filter is via a miniDSP 2x4, with REW room corrections.
I tried rolling off the Bamberg speakers with several types of crossover but was never satisfied, because the crossover always compromised the sound of the monitors.
My desktop system is a pair of Jordan JX92S full rangers in a curved 7L box. The Q is a bit high, about 0.9, but this adds a touch of warmth, which is welcome in this system. F3 is 70Hz. I don't use any baffle step correction, as the speakers sit on the desk against the wall. I use a Dayton sub with inboard BW 2nd-order filter, with the crossover set around 100Hz. The overlap adds a bit of warmth, a house curve if you will.
I am extremely happy with both my systems, and my audiophile friends seem impressed too.
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Off course, all speakers are compromises. But i mention it because it may be important for the OP. But it's a good design when used right i think, just like all your designs. But as end user you need to know that i think. For his application this could be a very good speaker is what i ment, and no sub needed.
And i do that also often, i like front ports more because the response is more predictable where ever you put the speaker, but i calculate to use it half power (which is more than i would use probally for hifi) to get the right speed.
I did a sealed fullrange and sub here:
The Nautaloss Ref Monitor
It sounded great. The sub was a pair of sealed 6.5in woofers in spiral sealed chamber just like main full range drivers.
The Nautaloss Ref Monitor
It sounded great. The sub was a pair of sealed 6.5in woofers in spiral sealed chamber just like main full range drivers.
Thank you all for your valuable replies. So now I might consider a vented designed with no subwoofer. I keep going back and forth between 'sealed full-range bookshelf pair + one subwoofer' and 'vented full-range bookshelf pair'. I once bought a subwoofer but I returned it as I didn't really know how to integrate it properly at that time. Reading how low in frequency a full-range speaker can go in a vented box, it could be great on its own. My shelf up can accommodate the 40 liter plan "CHR120-classic-vented-box-standmount-standard.pdf" (on its side) but not the 56 liter plan "CHR120-classic-vented-box-standmount-large.pdf" as it is too deep for where it would be placed (well, it would stick out somewhat).
[I just received a measurement mic and will try out REW for speaker measurements, so I get more understanding of my room (about 11 m^2).]
[I just received a measurement mic and will try out REW for speaker measurements, so I get more understanding of my room (about 11 m^2).]