OneBar claims to recreate a surround experience with just one speaker using an array of drivers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmRGuDk8Qno
We know that a horizontal array can be beam steered to create a virtual left sound source and virtual right sound source. This technique has been used in some other DSP controlled beam steering products from Yamaha in the past.
What is not clear is how does the OneBar create the sensation of height, virtually move the sound source closer and virtually create the surround channels. The array has no directivity control vertically, its more or less an omni source, with almost no control. So, how can it do that?
Does anyone understand how it works?
Thanks,
Goldy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmRGuDk8Qno
We know that a horizontal array can be beam steered to create a virtual left sound source and virtual right sound source. This technique has been used in some other DSP controlled beam steering products from Yamaha in the past.
What is not clear is how does the OneBar create the sensation of height, virtually move the sound source closer and virtually create the surround channels. The array has no directivity control vertically, its more or less an omni source, with almost no control. So, how can it do that?
Does anyone understand how it works?
Thanks,
Goldy
Last edited:
sounds a bit like a lot of bs 🙂 al work with the use of minor delays. but steering is not only delays it is a combination of volume ,delays and combfiltering etc. also height perception is linked to your head your ears etc. the brain will translate these delays and other features to height perception for your features (your head your ears etc) the only true surround would be a calibrated recording to you specifiek body/head features or recorded in ear of you years in a binaural setup. the res is mimic. just my 2 cents
I don't think it has to be complete BS. You might check out the work of Prof. Edgar Choueiri at Princeton. In particular, look up his BACCH filter. Sorry, I tried to post a link using my iPad but I again ran into trouble---Safari keeps crashing.
The height information is conveyed by altering the spectrum of the sounds to mimic what happens as sounds encounters a listener's head and pinnae, if I'm remembering correctly.
Given the claim in the YouTube video that the OneBar effect works for listeners anywhere in the room, presumably simultaneously, I doubt that it's as effective as systems like Choueiri's that can really cancel the crosstalk. I can imagine that it could nonetheless yield some benefits (perhaps with troubling artifacts as well).
Few
The height information is conveyed by altering the spectrum of the sounds to mimic what happens as sounds encounters a listener's head and pinnae, if I'm remembering correctly.
Given the claim in the YouTube video that the OneBar effect works for listeners anywhere in the room, presumably simultaneously, I doubt that it's as effective as systems like Choueiri's that can really cancel the crosstalk. I can imagine that it could nonetheless yield some benefits (perhaps with troubling artifacts as well).
Few
i know there are studies with allot of speaker that can achieve really good results but thats far more speakers and spaced appart far further. where you can really place sounds. but still it highly based on a prefered listening area.
today someone asked me about the bloomline speaker system that claims 3d as well with just 2 or 4 omni's i never heard it myself but again i believe it has some defuse and spacies sound but not accurate.. all passive without any dsp tricks.... well i should get me a listening session sometime to be sure.
"...far more speakers and spaced appart far further."
Just the opposite. Choueiri's approach uses two speakers placed side-by-side (no space between them). It's a much more sophisticated approach than Carver's Sonic Holography or Polk's SDA but it's based on the same idea.
Few
P.S. Also see ambiophonics.org. The bug still prevents me from providing a link.
Just the opposite. Choueiri's approach uses two speakers placed side-by-side (no space between them). It's a much more sophisticated approach than Carver's Sonic Holography or Polk's SDA but it's based on the same idea.
Few
P.S. Also see ambiophonics.org. The bug still prevents me from providing a link.
Last edited:
How does the crosstalk cancellation filter in Choueiri's approach work?
And is it for a single seat position?
And is it for a single seat position?
oke and how is it gone recreate the 3d from a random recording with only dsp? the dsp cant guess the setup how it was recorded ? as well as all the effects and processing used in a studio ?
i believe that true reproduction with all these Technics are plausible but only if recorded with that in mind. i dont believe of random recordings being reproduced as it should be just by some fancy hardware. further more this would only work if the recordist had the exact same stuff.
since music and movies are not a shot at reality but what the artists wanted to achieve. surround and subs channels , are called effects channels for a reason.
btw Few no harm ment to you! just read some of the website and i having a hard time believing some claims
Last edited:
No problem--I felt no harm, but thanks.
A thousand years ago I used a Carver Sonic Hologram generator, which was an analog interaural crosstalk canceller. You had to sit exactly equidistant from the two speakers but it did heighten the sense of three dimensionality of conventional stereo recordings. Of course the mic set-up used for the recordings affected the results but it didn't have to be binaural in order for the effect to be worthwhile. Of course, as WrineX points out, the results will be more predictable if the recordings are made with crosstalk cancellation in mind.
When I later learned about ambiophonics I resurrected the old Carver device so I wouldn't need an intrusive sound-proof barrier between the speakers. I just moved the speakers very close to reach other. That approach also had merit but it's not very compatible with music/home theater systems that have a centrally located display that needs to be visible.
I have no experience with the OneBar so my comments may not be all that applicable. I just wanted to highlight the variety of two-speaker set-ups that have been developed to create surprisingly three dimensional sound fields. Choueiri's approach is the newest and most sophisticated. Reviews I've read have been very positive.
Few
A thousand years ago I used a Carver Sonic Hologram generator, which was an analog interaural crosstalk canceller. You had to sit exactly equidistant from the two speakers but it did heighten the sense of three dimensionality of conventional stereo recordings. Of course the mic set-up used for the recordings affected the results but it didn't have to be binaural in order for the effect to be worthwhile. Of course, as WrineX points out, the results will be more predictable if the recordings are made with crosstalk cancellation in mind.
When I later learned about ambiophonics I resurrected the old Carver device so I wouldn't need an intrusive sound-proof barrier between the speakers. I just moved the speakers very close to reach other. That approach also had merit but it's not very compatible with music/home theater systems that have a centrally located display that needs to be visible.
I have no experience with the OneBar so my comments may not be all that applicable. I just wanted to highlight the variety of two-speaker set-ups that have been developed to create surprisingly three dimensional sound fields. Choueiri's approach is the newest and most sophisticated. Reviews I've read have been very positive.
Few
Do they al work with cancelation by putting stuff out of phase ? Because you head ought to be in a vice from 2,5 kHz , since halve a waveform at 2,5 kHz is 64 mm , you will run into trouble when you move your head out of alignment from speaker one compared to number 2 , that is pretty quick , and doubling this frequency will half this distance. , aah well I reckon that's why they are so close together 🙂
Choueiri was working on a head tracker so that the cancellation signals could adjust in real time while a listener moved. That information is a couple of years old, though, so I don't know what's going on there today. The old Polk SDA and Carver systems were very sensitive to head movements. As you point out, putting the speakers close together minimizes the effect. It certainly doesn't eliminate it.
Few
Few
the thing is a head tracker wont work with more then one person. another thing is in a normal speaker system you got the same isues with phase, but if the steering rely on this factor its kind of a fail in my opinion. since with only 2 persons sitting on a bench your both out of spec of the cancellation to be 100 effective. same goes for normal speakers. so it might add some. but reliable it is not. and a normal 5.1 might even be more reliable , where you can use SPL as well as delays. with only 2 speakers you cant do this. and the things you can do are for a specific location in the room where it is correct. still al ncie theory but for now i think we are still a bit far away from true surround with 2 speakers or 3d for that mater. everyone go buy a good headphone and listen to binaural recordings. i made a few and that is impressive, taking your ear and head into account into a personal dsp would make it even more impressive.
(when accounted for the recording earshape even more impressive and could potential be TRUE 3d as our brains know it) just mimic the real world, record with your ears in theory and playback on your ears and you get what you want
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.