Hi
I am going to build a set of subs to accompany my line arrays. I am only interested in music so I am thinking of going sealed.
What do you think about the JL Audio subs vs the well regarded Scanspeak 23Ws?
The JL Audio subs like the F113 and the Gotham have gotten pretty much universal praise also.
They are about the same money. I am thinking of 2 x 2 for a total of 4 units.
Small size is pretty essential considering the line arrays are already huge. So the Dayton RS HF series is out - good reputation but requires huge box. Also means most 15" are out even the high BL designs.
Mostly my question is in regard to linear output capability. Both are capable of going in a small box but the JL is a 30+ lb driver vs a 10 lb driver. I know that comparing just on weight is silly but doesn't the higher weight imply a much stronger motor which implies higher output capability in a small sealed box.
Any thoughts?
Other experienced suggestions like the new Morel subs are welcome. Overall budget is ~$1400 for drivers in small 1-1.5 cu ft per driver boxes (in other words, 2 drivers in a 2-3 cu ft box). Only SQ matters, not crazy thumping HT output.
I am going to build a set of subs to accompany my line arrays. I am only interested in music so I am thinking of going sealed.
What do you think about the JL Audio subs vs the well regarded Scanspeak 23Ws?
The JL Audio subs like the F113 and the Gotham have gotten pretty much universal praise also.
They are about the same money. I am thinking of 2 x 2 for a total of 4 units.
Small size is pretty essential considering the line arrays are already huge. So the Dayton RS HF series is out - good reputation but requires huge box. Also means most 15" are out even the high BL designs.
Mostly my question is in regard to linear output capability. Both are capable of going in a small box but the JL is a 30+ lb driver vs a 10 lb driver. I know that comparing just on weight is silly but doesn't the higher weight imply a much stronger motor which implies higher output capability in a small sealed box.
Any thoughts?
Other experienced suggestions like the new Morel subs are welcome. Overall budget is ~$1400 for drivers in small 1-1.5 cu ft per driver boxes (in other words, 2 drivers in a 2-3 cu ft box). Only SQ matters, not crazy thumping HT output.
The 23W has the ECA of an 8", with 12mm xmax. The design is all about getting down low in a tiny box.
The 10W7 is a 10" with 23mm xmax. Thermal power handling is also higher. No doubt it's displacement and thermal limited SPL will be higher.
Have you tried modelling them in Unibox to see how they fare
in equivalent sized enclosures?
The 10W7 is a 10" with 23mm xmax. Thermal power handling is also higher. No doubt it's displacement and thermal limited SPL will be higher.
Have you tried modelling them in Unibox to see how they fare
in equivalent sized enclosures?
I'm currently building a sub with a 23W in a 37L enclsoure, which I'm going to drive with one of Anthony Holton's NX150 modules (275W into 4R). From what others have said the 23W needs LOTS of power to drive it (pretty inefficient, but with 4 shoud get better spls), but it is meant to sound very good. Probably depends on what you are matching it with - mine is to go with Ellis 1801b, crossover being the Borbely all-fet.
Probably a month away from powering up (crossover finished, amp finished this weekend, sub a couple of weeks away from completion). If you haven't decided by then, I'll let you know what I think.
Probably a month away from powering up (crossover finished, amp finished this weekend, sub a couple of weeks away from completion). If you haven't decided by then, I'll let you know what I think.
smithy666 said:
Which 23W, the 8861? I thought it required a box that was almost twice as large (70-75 liters). Even the 8565 requires about 70 liters.
I was thinking of this aurum cantus woofer for 35 liters?
http://www.aurumcantus.com/aurumcantus-midwoofer/index_midwoofer_ac250_sw.html
but it's Fs was a bit high.
I have a 23W driven by a Bash 300 and it poops out if you are trying acheive HT SPL's. These need to be used in multiples as the woofer is very small and the excursion really isn't much. As a sidenote the sound quality is excellent.
It's ~1.5 cubic feet and can be sealed or ported. Right now I'm running it vented as the driver does better. 2 per would be MUCH better.
Selah Audio makes some dual and quad subs with this woofer....
Selah Audio makes some dual and quad subs with this woofer....
chrismercurio said:
I did check out the Selah site and I think they are mostly using the 10" Aurasound woofer and 12" Peerless XXLS. I am looking for a compact (sub 70 liters) sub that can produce 100db at 50Hz and keep pace with the best 5" midbasses (read as SS 15W or Seas 15cm magnesium) XOed at abut 150Hz.
150hz seems really high to cross a sub...
It sounds like you want a woofer. In multiples of two or more, the 23W will do what you want in the size box you want. I don't know what distance you want to recreate 100db from, or how large your space is, but it is a quality woofer, at a very high price.
Chris
It sounds like you want a woofer. In multiples of two or more, the 23W will do what you want in the size box you want. I don't know what distance you want to recreate 100db from, or how large your space is, but it is a quality woofer, at a very high price.
Chris
chrismercurio said:
I intend to have stereo woofers or subs. one under each satellite sort of like a WATT-Puppy.
100db at 1 meter for 1 speaker should do. If I get 95db+ at my listening position about 3 meters from each speaker I should be ok. I dont listen too loud but really like definition.
Keep in mind this is my opinion....
95+ db at the listening position is loud. At (near) full power this looks possible at that listening position. Check out the Marten design duke + sub.
Chris
95+ db at the listening position is loud. At (near) full power this looks possible at that listening position. Check out the Marten design duke + sub.
Chris
navin said:
I thought there was only the 4557 for the 23W - what is the 8861? The 8565 is a 25W woofer, not a subwoofer. For a sealed box 70-75L is way too large for a single 23W4557. 30-37L is what is generally recommended for this driver, with or without the passive radiator.
Everyone is right....
There is only one Scan Speak 23W sub and it comes in 2 finishes.
23W/4557Txx
There is only one Scan Speak 23W sub and it comes in 2 finishes.
23W/4557Txx
smithy666 said:
chrismercurio said:
Sorry for confusing everyone. I was looking at the woofers and not the subs. I found the sensitivity of the subs to be very low (80-82db 1W). With 2 of them in series you will get 85db at best. To produce 95-100db at 3 meters you will need a 150-200W rms clean power.
The 8861 is a revelator woofer.
The advantage to the low sensitivity is box size. A plate amp would help you accomplish the spl you want.
Those scanspeak subs are awesome... and realy tough.
The guy whose daughter is mentioned in my signature, runs a DIY scanspeak 3 way. Great sound, absolutlely authentic reproduction of the original instruments, also realy neat to watch the woofers move in the air at frequencies below the audiable range...
He has another friend who build another 3 way with the exact same woofer, driver and tweeter, powering it with an 18W valve amp. And it still kicks *** and takes names.
The guy whose daughter is mentioned in my signature, runs a DIY scanspeak 3 way. Great sound, absolutlely authentic reproduction of the original instruments, also realy neat to watch the woofers move in the air at frequencies below the audiable range...
He has another friend who build another 3 way with the exact same woofer, driver and tweeter, powering it with an 18W valve amp. And it still kicks *** and takes names.
chrismercurio said:
Nordic said:
If they can keep up with the SS midbass and tweeters they should be good.
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