Thank you for all the thoughts. It helps me to see how others think about this.
This will be a twin woofer application, two 8-inchers in a 60 liter (net) box. I want to try the new Wondom JAB5 amp: 4 x 100 W with an ADU1701 DSP, all on one board. So each 8 inch woofer will have a 100W amp driving it.
I will take a look at the Dayton and Peerless drivers.
The SB23MFCL45 was one I considered early on, but I was concerned about low sensitivity and higher cost. But now giving it a second look, I see it models very well. I get about 4 dB more output at 30 Hz than with the other drivers (thanks to the very large Xmax).
I am trying to keep the cost down because I have a friend who may want to duplicate this design when I am done, and he is a bit price sensitive. I will see what he thinks...
Again, thanks for all the thoughts.
j.
This will be a twin woofer application, two 8-inchers in a 60 liter (net) box. I want to try the new Wondom JAB5 amp: 4 x 100 W with an ADU1701 DSP, all on one board. So each 8 inch woofer will have a 100W amp driving it.
I will take a look at the Dayton and Peerless drivers.
The SB23MFCL45 was one I considered early on, but I was concerned about low sensitivity and higher cost. But now giving it a second look, I see it models very well. I get about 4 dB more output at 30 Hz than with the other drivers (thanks to the very large Xmax).
I am trying to keep the cost down because I have a friend who may want to duplicate this design when I am done, and he is a bit price sensitive. I will see what he thinks...
Again, thanks for all the thoughts.
j.
One slightly over budget option and one well under budget option:
Over: B&C 8BG51. I'm not sure what these cost now (my invoice from PE from a couple years ago says $116) but they are IMO a cut above the typical home hifi woofers: nice neo motor, 2" voicecoil, and I suspect a decent bit more real world excursion too.
Under: MCM 55-5670. This one is like 25-30 bucks and really surprised me. The ones I bought were built to pretty tight tolerance, and they have all of the expected features for a decent midwoofer: cast frame, copper shorting rings, attractive cone, long rated throw (distortion defined xmax is probably, as with the ScanSpeak and SB Acoustics, less than the rated value). I expected it to be a paper champion, but after playing with them I'm not sure what the ScanSpeak or SB Acoustics woofers offer that it doesn't. That said, mine are from shortly after release. Hopefully quality is still up there.
Ah, that makes more sense with 6dB higher SPL at excursion limit from the two drives.
Cost becomes twice as important as a share of the total for the project, but I can't think of a driver with larger or comparable xmax and lower cost, that hasn't been mentioned already. Reminds me why I use subwoofers.
Ken
2x8" in 60liter closed narrow 3-way box, dsp - sounds familiar to me!
Avalanche AS1 modernization
I used original SS 22W drivers (had to buy 2 to replace burned ones) and they work well, but I don't play very loud. What I love is sealed low GD making very tight low bass with the help from the room. Subwoofers drivers OK perhaps for bass freaks and HT without special subs, but I don't miss them for music.
Avalanche AS1 modernization
I used original SS 22W drivers (had to buy 2 to replace burned ones) and they work well, but I don't play very loud. What I love is sealed low GD making very tight low bass with the help from the room. Subwoofers drivers OK perhaps for bass freaks and HT without special subs, but I don't miss them for music.
Sorry, my woofers are older Classic series SS 21W, with SD-1 motor. The 22W Revelators are pretty expensive hifi-subwoofer drivers. So, I doubt if double 8" subwoofers are really needed, unless one has a big room and is a bass/movie freak. And still, SB 23W is only half the price of SS... And soundwise bass range means room and positioning rule anyway!
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I know we're on a budget here. But a driver like WO24P, surely shows a very smooth and extended response with paper.
Jim, I just recently looked over some candidates for basically the same usage as you. HiFicompass's harmonic distortion tests at various voltages changed my perception a bit, I highly recommend you compare some drivers there. I was looking at performance <200hz only. The Discovery was out. MFC out. NBAC was good but a bit worse than the NRX, which is a strange to me. But the RS225 really looked good. Distortion <100hz was hugely better than the NRX. Between 100-200hz the NRX was better, but not by the same differential as <100hz. And this was the paper RS225, in all the 3rd party measurements of Al vs paper RS drivers I've seen, the Al are cleaner. And RS225 aluminum models better bass response. The WO24P distortion is pretty average in this group at low voltage, but as you up the volts it pretty clearly moves to the lead. But $$$.
Yep... seems like the WO24 has the same distortion between 100-900hz at 16V - as the Dayton has with only 4V.
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/dayton-audio/dayton-audio-rs225p-8a
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/satori/satori-wo24p-4
No measurement of the RS225 Alu yet.....
Are the Anarchy woofef still manufactered
Two Wavecore paper and fiber in serie should sound more nervous and tight than the SBs and SS. and as you use dsp you can get rid easily with a But3 or LR4 from the breakups but they are upon the budget. The Nbac has ideal Numbers for sealed enclosure which will give a good F10 but 60l for two units. With room gain and nears the walls you may need less eq than you think according the room, better to simulate not from the datasheets but from real measurement like Audioexcite with the sb23nrx. The Nbac is ideal at 300 hz and something good equilibrium between detail and smoothness. The Dayton quicks in the low end and can live with a But6 at 300 hz. Maybe the SS won with their Sd but Daytons seems no brainer and cheap in USA.
Two Wavecore paper and fiber in serie should sound more nervous and tight than the SBs and SS. and as you use dsp you can get rid easily with a But3 or LR4 from the breakups but they are upon the budget. The Nbac has ideal Numbers for sealed enclosure which will give a good F10 but 60l for two units. With room gain and nears the walls you may need less eq than you think according the room, better to simulate not from the datasheets but from real measurement like Audioexcite with the sb23nrx. The Nbac is ideal at 300 hz and something good equilibrium between detail and smoothness. The Dayton quicks in the low end and can live with a But6 at 300 hz. Maybe the SS won with their Sd but Daytons seems no brainer and cheap in USA.
Or risk and go for new Dayton Epique
https://www.parts-express.com/Epique-E180HE-44-7-DVC-MMAG-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-per-Coil-295-104
https://www.parts-express.com/Epique-E180HE-44-7-DVC-MMAG-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-per-Coil-295-104
kstrain has solid reasoning in his post.
I would add that since you have importance on the cost you are able to pick cheapest option if you have the required system SPL and extension written down. This will help you to ignore emotion out from the driver selection process and allow cost savings
I mean, almost all 8" drivers perform the same* except small bunch that are advanced design (and small buch that are poor design), which usually cost premium. If you requirements demand advanced design because you get few more dB of good sounding output at some Hz then you have to use one from the top bunch and the cost is justified, because that is what is needed for the system design at hand. Otherwise pick cheap one that seems to be advanced, like the MCM mentioned.
For sake of interest you could buy two pairs, a cheap and a good pair. Test them out in a prototype system and demonstrate you buddy the difference, if any he will find the money for the good pair if it really makes a difference!
* I dont have any experience on the drivers mentioned and don't know your system but I assume the drivers would work pistonic in the application bandwidth and radiate omni. With DSP you can match the frequency responses and level so differences between the selection become most pronounced when you drive the system hard, to the limits you need to define and test out. It might be so that limit of the system is the tweeter, or the amplifier, and any woofer would do nicely! I have no idea how it turns out. Just a thought process
I would add that since you have importance on the cost you are able to pick cheapest option if you have the required system SPL and extension written down. This will help you to ignore emotion out from the driver selection process and allow cost savings
I mean, almost all 8" drivers perform the same* except small bunch that are advanced design (and small buch that are poor design), which usually cost premium. If you requirements demand advanced design because you get few more dB of good sounding output at some Hz then you have to use one from the top bunch and the cost is justified, because that is what is needed for the system design at hand. Otherwise pick cheap one that seems to be advanced, like the MCM mentioned.For sake of interest you could buy two pairs, a cheap and a good pair. Test them out in a prototype system and demonstrate you buddy the difference, if any
he will find the money for the good pair if it really makes a difference!* I dont have any experience on the drivers mentioned and don't know your system but I assume the drivers would work pistonic in the application bandwidth and radiate omni. With DSP you can match the frequency responses and level so differences between the selection become most pronounced when you drive the system hard, to the limits you need to define and test out. It might be so that limit of the system is the tweeter, or the amplifier, and any woofer would do nicely! I have no idea how it turns out. Just a thought process
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