Hi
I am considering building an Ekta using all Scan-Speak drivers. see http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ekta.htm.
Does anyone have any experience of this relatively new design?
Has anyone heard it?
TIA.
Michael
I am considering building an Ekta using all Scan-Speak drivers. see http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ekta.htm.
Does anyone have any experience of this relatively new design?
Has anyone heard it?
TIA.
Michael
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ekta.htm
link works.
No real comments except the tweeter alternatives sound sensible.
🙂/sreten.
link works.
No real comments except the tweeter alternatives sound sensible.
🙂/sreten.
yup, built them, love them.
swaped the tweeter for a 9500 though.
had a pair of jbl 4311's, replaced them with his sp95's, then went on to the modified ektas.
Troels was of great help, still have all the info about xover changes etc.
for more info see here --> http://www.chriscrystalcraft.com.au/N.S.E.W.htm
need to add in the xover schematics, but if you look at the pics of the crossover you should be able to work it out real easy.
Bass section is unchanged.
minor mod to mid and tweeter section.
swaped the tweeter for a 9500 though.
had a pair of jbl 4311's, replaced them with his sp95's, then went on to the modified ektas.
Troels was of great help, still have all the info about xover changes etc.
for more info see here --> http://www.chriscrystalcraft.com.au/N.S.E.W.htm
need to add in the xover schematics, but if you look at the pics of the crossover you should be able to work it out real easy.
Bass section is unchanged.
minor mod to mid and tweeter section.
Hi Ocaukrell
Thanks for your reply. Good job with your Ektas, they look great.
I already have the R2904/70000s, so I can't go for the sensible tweeter option.
My previous project was a two way monitor with a 15W/4531. They sound a bit thin and cold in the midrange - perhaps a similar problem as in your 95 project? They sound great with some music and pretty dull with others.
I am changing the mid/bass inductor from 1.6mH to 1.8mH as suggested by the designer to try and cure this.
I have set my heart on building some Ektas though; unless I can be persuaded otherwise.
How do yours sound with different stlyes of music? I listen to a varied selection of female jazz, pop, folk, rock and dance. I am looking for an equisite, but warm and music friendly sound (musical???).
Michael
Thanks for your reply. Good job with your Ektas, they look great.
I already have the R2904/70000s, so I can't go for the sensible tweeter option.
My previous project was a two way monitor with a 15W/4531. They sound a bit thin and cold in the midrange - perhaps a similar problem as in your 95 project? They sound great with some music and pretty dull with others.
I am changing the mid/bass inductor from 1.6mH to 1.8mH as suggested by the designer to try and cure this.
I have set my heart on building some Ektas though; unless I can be persuaded otherwise.
How do yours sound with different stlyes of music? I listen to a varied selection of female jazz, pop, folk, rock and dance. I am looking for an equisite, but warm and music friendly sound (musical???).
Michael
I second the request for a review of the 9500 Ekta. I'm building this or the Galtis, but I like the idea of a 4" covering midrange more than I do a 7".
Tktran -
yes little bit overkill in some ways.
With what the mids cost (even at trade it hurts) I new that I had one chance to do this, if I turned around to the other half and said "I just want to change this bit" I dont think I'd be here today !!
overall the final cost to me was about $2,200 from memory.
Considering I've seen similar systems retailing for $10,000 +.
And I haven't heard anything under $8,000 that comes close.
The cabinets I really wanted right.
If you look at the sp95's on my page even though I thought they were braced enough, in use under moderate volume (normal conversation can still be had in the room) you could feel slight vibrations in the panels, hence the use of 1" and further bracing.
It works too, rapping them is like trying to break your knukles, no vibration at all.
dublin -
EDIT- to answer your Q. exactly what I was after, smooth and detailed, easy to listen to but still able to suprise with depth, and thats what I got.
I prefer paper drivers, if there done right I think they are just that bit warmer and more listenable than hard metal cones.
--
No worries, the sp95's are fantastic, dont get me wrong, they will destroy almost any comercial speaker I've experienced this side of Au$3,000.
But for me who can tell if something is right or not, they were just lacking that little bit.
when set up next to the old jbl 4311's, even though the SP's are so much nicer, the missing midrange is glaringly obvious.
And if it aint right then I wont be happy.
As for music styles, I've tried with things like telarc 1812, kate bush, pink floyd, norah jones (wish I could find a good recording of her), paul simon, roger waters, enya.
reminds me, must get that bork cd of a freind and really tourture them.
All I can say is, it's just as well I live in a brick house with a reasonable space to the neighbours.
with the sp95's, they sound best if your sitting there facing them.
with the ektas, it doesnt matter if your facing them at all.
the mid just adds that final piece of the jigsaw.
Very happy camper here, think these will last me a looooong time.
yes little bit overkill in some ways.
With what the mids cost (even at trade it hurts) I new that I had one chance to do this, if I turned around to the other half and said "I just want to change this bit" I dont think I'd be here today !!
overall the final cost to me was about $2,200 from memory.
Considering I've seen similar systems retailing for $10,000 +.
And I haven't heard anything under $8,000 that comes close.
The cabinets I really wanted right.
If you look at the sp95's on my page even though I thought they were braced enough, in use under moderate volume (normal conversation can still be had in the room) you could feel slight vibrations in the panels, hence the use of 1" and further bracing.
It works too, rapping them is like trying to break your knukles, no vibration at all.
dublin -
EDIT- to answer your Q. exactly what I was after, smooth and detailed, easy to listen to but still able to suprise with depth, and thats what I got.
I prefer paper drivers, if there done right I think they are just that bit warmer and more listenable than hard metal cones.
--
No worries, the sp95's are fantastic, dont get me wrong, they will destroy almost any comercial speaker I've experienced this side of Au$3,000.
But for me who can tell if something is right or not, they were just lacking that little bit.
when set up next to the old jbl 4311's, even though the SP's are so much nicer, the missing midrange is glaringly obvious.
And if it aint right then I wont be happy.
As for music styles, I've tried with things like telarc 1812, kate bush, pink floyd, norah jones (wish I could find a good recording of her), paul simon, roger waters, enya.
reminds me, must get that bork cd of a freind and really tourture them.
All I can say is, it's just as well I live in a brick house with a reasonable space to the neighbours.
with the sp95's, they sound best if your sitting there facing them.
with the ektas, it doesnt matter if your facing them at all.
the mid just adds that final piece of the jigsaw.
Very happy camper here, think these will last me a looooong time.
IMHO, what's missing from the SP95 is a little extra refinement from the crossover design. Admittedly, the proof in the pudding is in the listening, and I'm not surprised at your subjective listening comments.
By raw objective data, the 8531G has potential to be a superb midbass AND midrange driver. However this requires a crossover that deals with both the poor off-axis response at 3Khz and adjacent 3.2Khz resonance.
I have followed the development of the 7" floorstander concept pursued by Troels, from the ProAc Response 2.5 clone, to ProAc "2.95" to SP95, SP38/13 and then Ekta.
The Ekta benefits from continued R&D, particularly the re-worked cabinet and port tuning, and crossing well below 2Khz. I'm not surprised it sounds fantastic!
Glad you like it!
In regards to refining of crossover, I can't say whether this is a possible cause or not.
But I do remember Troels talking in depth about cabinet choice for the bass driver (sp38/13 pdf ??)
From memory he states that if the 18w8531g00 is placed in a smaller enclosure it turns into more of a midrange driver.
But he prefered the sound of it in slightly larger bass cabinet.
I have heard it as such and I agree with him.
So for me at least, I'm putting the 'missing' midrange (sp95) as being more a function of the cabinet being optimised for bass rather than outright midrange.
Too be honest, I don't believe your average listener (what 70% of 'them'?) would notice.
These people are probably more than happy with their pioneer and sony multi channel budget amps.
The SP95 really is an exceptional speaker.
It just does so many things right.
Lets not forget that it's trying to get a 7" to mate with a 1".
Thats a big ask for any driver.
The Ekta on the other hand is less of a compromise. Not to mention another almost %40 of the cost of the SP's again.
If we were honest (and filthy rich) we'd probably go and buy either some B&W 801's or electrostatics.
With the sp95 I use cheap caps and inductors with 18mm mdf.
In the Ekta I've used Mundorf (std) caps and one huge bass inductor with heavily braced 25mm material. (not quite mdf)
At the end of the day, any 'kit' speaker is only going to be as good as how it's copied. (design not withstanding)
Then there's the final test of a speakers 'quality' or abilities.
What YOUR ears like to hear.........
But I do remember Troels talking in depth about cabinet choice for the bass driver (sp38/13 pdf ??)
From memory he states that if the 18w8531g00 is placed in a smaller enclosure it turns into more of a midrange driver.
But he prefered the sound of it in slightly larger bass cabinet.
I have heard it as such and I agree with him.
So for me at least, I'm putting the 'missing' midrange (sp95) as being more a function of the cabinet being optimised for bass rather than outright midrange.
Too be honest, I don't believe your average listener (what 70% of 'them'?) would notice.
These people are probably more than happy with their pioneer and sony multi channel budget amps.
The SP95 really is an exceptional speaker.
It just does so many things right.
Lets not forget that it's trying to get a 7" to mate with a 1".
Thats a big ask for any driver.
The Ekta on the other hand is less of a compromise. Not to mention another almost %40 of the cost of the SP's again.
If we were honest (and filthy rich) we'd probably go and buy either some B&W 801's or electrostatics.
With the sp95 I use cheap caps and inductors with 18mm mdf.
In the Ekta I've used Mundorf (std) caps and one huge bass inductor with heavily braced 25mm material. (not quite mdf)
At the end of the day, any 'kit' speaker is only going to be as good as how it's copied. (design not withstanding)
Then there's the final test of a speakers 'quality' or abilities.
What YOUR ears like to hear.........
Thanks for a detailed and thoughful reply ocaukrell.
I followed the development of the SP95 from it's earliest incarnations, when Troels was starting to experiment with the 8531G in a 2.5 clone cabinet. (I had a Response "2.95" clone and was looking to improve the midrange) He admitted that he had difficulty with making a crossover for it, and actually gave up on the parallel crossover, and could not recommend upgrading to the SP95 if I already had the 2.95.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, this was around the time Troels had been experimenting with series crossovers, and he found that his series implementation gave a better sound than the parallel, which he found very puzzling, so he released the design with the series crossover, and decided to withhold the parallel until he could figure out a proper solution. However, he never got around to it, and as you can probably tell from Troels prolific webpage, he got stuck into other projects. At that time he was very keen to make a ScanSpeak 3-way after making his SEAS 3-ways (Point75/Acapella).
My point is, the SP95's full potential was never fully realised. At the time, I think Troels put it down to a size mismatch (7"
mated to a 1" tweeter). To paraphrase, for a better sound there needs to be a smaller mid-driver in there somewhere. But of course this is not necessarily true (his favourite Acapella SE uses a 7" middriver!)
There are often biases using against large drivers for the midrange, or small drivers for bass, but to be honest it really depends on the crossover and final cabinet (box size and bass tuning) implementation. With Troels' current interest in vintage drivers and higher sensitivity speakers, it's interesting to note that now he finds that even 8" 2-ways can sound fantastic, with pleasing midrange.
IMHO matching a 7" midbass like the ScanSpeak drivers (8545, 8545K, 8535), the 8531G needs careful consideration of seemingly benign but audible resonances (visible on the FR/CSD), and needs response shaping notch filter(s) to control these, and in a 2-way needs to be crossed suitably low- ~2.5Khz or below (off-axis response at 3Khz is extremely poor). The widrange nature of the 8545/8545K/8531G makes it ideally suited to an acoustic LR2 design, and the excellent midrange qualities will never fully realised in a LR4 design crossed a 3Khz without notch filters.
I hope this doesn't sound like heresay, and not to bag the SP95, but these are my ideas based on studying the crossover designs of Dan Wesnor's Ella and John Krutke's ZD5...
I followed the development of the SP95 from it's earliest incarnations, when Troels was starting to experiment with the 8531G in a 2.5 clone cabinet. (I had a Response "2.95" clone and was looking to improve the midrange) He admitted that he had difficulty with making a crossover for it, and actually gave up on the parallel crossover, and could not recommend upgrading to the SP95 if I already had the 2.95.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, this was around the time Troels had been experimenting with series crossovers, and he found that his series implementation gave a better sound than the parallel, which he found very puzzling, so he released the design with the series crossover, and decided to withhold the parallel until he could figure out a proper solution. However, he never got around to it, and as you can probably tell from Troels prolific webpage, he got stuck into other projects. At that time he was very keen to make a ScanSpeak 3-way after making his SEAS 3-ways (Point75/Acapella).
My point is, the SP95's full potential was never fully realised. At the time, I think Troels put it down to a size mismatch (7"
mated to a 1" tweeter). To paraphrase, for a better sound there needs to be a smaller mid-driver in there somewhere. But of course this is not necessarily true (his favourite Acapella SE uses a 7" middriver!)
There are often biases using against large drivers for the midrange, or small drivers for bass, but to be honest it really depends on the crossover and final cabinet (box size and bass tuning) implementation. With Troels' current interest in vintage drivers and higher sensitivity speakers, it's interesting to note that now he finds that even 8" 2-ways can sound fantastic, with pleasing midrange.
IMHO matching a 7" midbass like the ScanSpeak drivers (8545, 8545K, 8535), the 8531G needs careful consideration of seemingly benign but audible resonances (visible on the FR/CSD), and needs response shaping notch filter(s) to control these, and in a 2-way needs to be crossed suitably low- ~2.5Khz or below (off-axis response at 3Khz is extremely poor). The widrange nature of the 8545/8545K/8531G makes it ideally suited to an acoustic LR2 design, and the excellent midrange qualities will never fully realised in a LR4 design crossed a 3Khz without notch filters.
I hope this doesn't sound like heresay, and not to bag the SP95, but these are my ideas based on studying the crossover designs of Dan Wesnor's Ella and John Krutke's ZD5...
Ahh, now it makes sense.
now I understand why you feel it's more a xover issue with the SP95's.
And I agree that cabinet and driver is only a small part of any design.
If was as easy as using drixer x with xover y in box z, there would be no reason for anyone to try different combos.
Some prefer redheads.......
All I can say is to my aging (38) ears these sound almost better than anything I care to remember.
mind you the memory is ficle at best and if I had the chance to line the contenders up in the same room at the same time I'm sure I'd find something good/bad about each system.
From memory the nicest speakers I have heard was a pair of Quad els's (dont remember the model, 15 years ago).
Oh to have the money to swap and change everyday...
now I understand why you feel it's more a xover issue with the SP95's.
And I agree that cabinet and driver is only a small part of any design.
If was as easy as using drixer x with xover y in box z, there would be no reason for anyone to try different combos.
Some prefer redheads.......
All I can say is to my aging (38) ears these sound almost better than anything I care to remember.
mind you the memory is ficle at best and if I had the chance to line the contenders up in the same room at the same time I'm sure I'd find something good/bad about each system.
From memory the nicest speakers I have heard was a pair of Quad els's (dont remember the model, 15 years ago).
Oh to have the money to swap and change everyday...
dublin78 said:
http://hem.bredband.net/b227650/galtis/galtisstart.htm
and here is the xover for using a SS 9700, which is how I am going to build it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and finished pic of 9700 version
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Does anybody have any ideas of how much tweaking would be involved if the 9500 was used instead of a 9700?
On Troels' Amish page I found this quote:
'07-01-2006: I recently had an inquiery regarding the use of the 9700 tweeter [as oppose to the 9500] and this is only a matter of tweeter attenuation. The 9700 has a slightly lower sensitivity in the 3 kHz region, thus requires reduced attenuation. 4R7 in replacement of the 5R6 does the trick.'
Any comments? The Galtis design looks very interesting and I already have some 8545 and 9500 drivers so it could be a logical progression.
Al
On Troels' Amish page I found this quote:
'07-01-2006: I recently had an inquiery regarding the use of the 9700 tweeter [as oppose to the 9500] and this is only a matter of tweeter attenuation. The 9700 has a slightly lower sensitivity in the 3 kHz region, thus requires reduced attenuation. 4R7 in replacement of the 5R6 does the trick.'
Any comments? The Galtis design looks very interesting and I already have some 8545 and 9500 drivers so it could be a logical progression.
Al
- Status
- Not open for further replies.