Hi Jb,
where do you common the grounds.
after the diodes on the amp side.
or
before the diodes on the regulator side?
where do you common the grounds.
after the diodes on the amp side.
or
before the diodes on the regulator side?
JB - what was your input voltage when you were having startup problems?
It would be interesting to see if having more margin between regulated output voltage and the reference makes a difference in startup behavior. Maybe I'll get to that after shipping the GB.
It would be interesting to see if having more margin between regulated output voltage and the reference makes a difference in startup behavior. Maybe I'll get to that after shipping the GB.
re: questions
AndrewT -
The plus and minus ground connection is after the diodes
- I have a 5 pin din female panel mount connector on the
power supply enclosure - the two grounds come together
there, and the plus and minus leads also (only 3 pins
used on the 5 pin connector)
I suspected that using the diodes in this way "might"
be worth a try after I monitored the current one side
at a time with a 25w, 25ohm resister as load (per side).
When only the side being monitored would start, the
current went way up, much higher, I thought than it should.
When both sides were "on" with this sort of load, the
current was slightly over 450ma per side.
and BobEllis - the transformer is a 25va, 15v
from Digikey - TE62063-ND
Voltage at the inputs to the board checked 17.36vac
on each side - output is +/- 12.16 - (what was intended)
(I see that my attachment was not shown - it was just to show
on a blank board where I put the diodes)
jb
AndrewT -
The plus and minus ground connection is after the diodes
- I have a 5 pin din female panel mount connector on the
power supply enclosure - the two grounds come together
there, and the plus and minus leads also (only 3 pins
used on the 5 pin connector)
I suspected that using the diodes in this way "might"
be worth a try after I monitored the current one side
at a time with a 25w, 25ohm resister as load (per side).
When only the side being monitored would start, the
current went way up, much higher, I thought than it should.
When both sides were "on" with this sort of load, the
current was slightly over 450ma per side.
and BobEllis - the transformer is a 25va, 15v
from Digikey - TE62063-ND
Voltage at the inputs to the board checked 17.36vac
on each side - output is +/- 12.16 - (what was intended)
(I see that my attachment was not shown - it was just to show
on a blank board where I put the diodes)
jb
Hi Bob,
15Vac for a 12.1Vdc is way over specified and forces the regulator to dissipate far too much heat when mains is running at maximum input voltage.
All because the topology was not properly debugged at the design stage.
It wasted dozens of hours of my time and the only solutions, that I could find, ruined the rejection performance of the regulator. I was forced to give up. And abandon all those PCBs and Vrefs I bought.
But Jb may have stumbled on to a solution.
I too shall go back and look at this option.
15Vac for a 12.1Vdc is way over specified and forces the regulator to dissipate far too much heat when mains is running at maximum input voltage.
All because the topology was not properly debugged at the design stage.
It wasted dozens of hours of my time and the only solutions, that I could find, ruined the rejection performance of the regulator. I was forced to give up. And abandon all those PCBs and Vrefs I bought.
But Jb may have stumbled on to a solution.
I too shall go back and look at this option.
AndrewT said:
Hmm do you have a more efficient linear regulator up your sleeve ehhh?
This was never intended to be a super duper low noise regulator with 100dB PSU noise rejection...... That would need more PCB space and parts. I tried to incorporate as many options as possible, but making everybody happy is not possible (as usual)
May I suggest (without wanting to offend anyone) that they make up their mind whether or not to participate in a GB, and accept the outcome……. Nobody forced anyone to buy boards, and no one claimed the design to be “a bug free I can configure it any way I want to and still expect it to work with whatever parts I fit on the board” construction.
\Jens
Andrew -
Using 15 VAC for 12VDC output was JB's idea, not my specification. That in and of itself apparently did not guarantee starting in his case. I asked the question to see if maybe running an underrated transformer might have been the culprit.
I apologize for your troubles. The design was fairly thoroughly tested before production at the 15V design point. Jens and I built prototypes and ran them through their paces without noticing an issue with startup into loads exceeding the recommended maximum of 500 mA. (except when the output was shorted
)
BTW, JB - if the 450 mA you report is input current, that agrees pretty much with PSDesigners' prediction. It reflects the output plus charging current in the filter caps. That's why we recommend less than 500 mA with the stock parts.
The net result is a power supply that works reliably at 15V with the recommended parts. It sounds pretty good, too, IMHO. We could not test every possible output voltage, so we focused on what most people will use. Perhaps I should have tested 12V operation, too.
I know it is frustrating to spend money on something that doesn't meet your expectations. It happens to me too often, too.
You were not alone trying to solve your issues. Jens and I also spent quite a bit of time reflecting on, discussing between ourselves, simulating, trying to reproduce and solve them. Please remember that this is a hobby for us, not a business. I think if you put even a modest hourly rate on the time Jens and I have spent trying to support you, you'd find that it far exceeds the cost of the boards and parts you purchased.
Is your venom truly warranted?
Using 15 VAC for 12VDC output was JB's idea, not my specification. That in and of itself apparently did not guarantee starting in his case. I asked the question to see if maybe running an underrated transformer might have been the culprit.
I apologize for your troubles. The design was fairly thoroughly tested before production at the 15V design point. Jens and I built prototypes and ran them through their paces without noticing an issue with startup into loads exceeding the recommended maximum of 500 mA. (except when the output was shorted
) BTW, JB - if the 450 mA you report is input current, that agrees pretty much with PSDesigners' prediction. It reflects the output plus charging current in the filter caps. That's why we recommend less than 500 mA with the stock parts.
The net result is a power supply that works reliably at 15V with the recommended parts. It sounds pretty good, too, IMHO. We could not test every possible output voltage, so we focused on what most people will use. Perhaps I should have tested 12V operation, too.
I know it is frustrating to spend money on something that doesn't meet your expectations. It happens to me too often, too.
You were not alone trying to solve your issues. Jens and I also spent quite a bit of time reflecting on, discussing between ourselves, simulating, trying to reproduce and solve them. Please remember that this is a hobby for us, not a business. I think if you put even a modest hourly rate on the time Jens and I have spent trying to support you, you'd find that it far exceeds the cost of the boards and parts you purchased.
Is your venom truly warranted?
I've constructed a set according to specs, and they're trouble-free.
The other boards Bob sent me, shipped with great care, are meant to do high voltage regulation for Jens's big Leach boards. I'll patiently wait till Bob and Jens invested another couple of dozen hours in that and hand out the stats. You don't think i'll waste dozens of my own hours, do you ?
(besides, i'm a lousy developer. But i'm great in sucking everybody's elses brain, and proud of it ! )
The other boards Bob sent me, shipped with great care, are meant to do high voltage regulation for Jens's big Leach boards. I'll patiently wait till Bob and Jens invested another couple of dozen hours in that and hand out the stats. You don't think i'll waste dozens of my own hours, do you ?
(besides, i'm a lousy developer. But i'm great in sucking everybody's elses brain, and proud of it ! )
Thanks for the support Jacco.
You'll find a 65 V BOM and spreadsheet for scaling values Here
Incomplete testing disclaimer: I have only built a single 65V positive regulator. It starts reliably into 200 ohms with 50VAC input. I have not built the negative side or had a chance to use it in an actual application. I should get to using it this fall on a Jens 6 output transistor Leach amp.
You'll find a 65 V BOM and spreadsheet for scaling values Here
Incomplete testing disclaimer: I have only built a single 65V positive regulator. It starts reliably into 200 ohms with 50VAC input. I have not built the negative side or had a chance to use it in an actual application. I should get to using it this fall on a Jens 6 output transistor Leach amp.
I was wondering if anyone saw that 😉 A few batches of those you'll catch up with me. My target weight is above yours 
Andrew. I build two sets of regulators for 15 Volt use and they functioned properly from the get go with any current within the specified range.
Although i was one of the first to find the high frequency ripple it was never an issue for me to reject the boards.
When you do this as a hobby you must be willing to accept minor setbacks,if not buy a ready made PSU so you can complain to the manufacturer when it doesn't perform to your liking.
I am thankfull to Rob and Jens that they are willing to spent their time (and sometimes money) to help a lot of people obtaining a proper PSU at a modest price.
kro5998
Although i was one of the first to find the high frequency ripple it was never an issue for me to reject the boards.
When you do this as a hobby you must be willing to accept minor setbacks,if not buy a ready made PSU so you can complain to the manufacturer when it doesn't perform to your liking.
I am thankfull to Rob and Jens that they are willing to spent their time (and sometimes money) to help a lot of people obtaining a proper PSU at a modest price.
kro5998
Wait a sec. Let me get this straight...AndrewT said:
I haven't read about your problems in details, but as I understand you are using the psu board for a different voltage than intended. There are no problems with the boards when they are assembled according to specs.
Besides that, looking at the (huge!) amount of replies you got from Jens and Bob in troubleshooting your particular situation, I feel your comments are completely off and pretty much uncalled for...
Even after your wining about proper debugging, Bob is graciously answering you with 'I apologize' and 'maybe we should have'. Bob, you are one heck of a (polite) guy. Jens and you have made a high quality psu available for everyone for a diy price.
So I have a slightly different view on this... Tough Luck!
If you can't fix your problem I suggest you build the board to specs and thank Jens and Bob for their time (in particular the time devoted to you alone), effort and results! If you want something for your own specs, design it or buy it at retail prices and complain to the manufacturer about debugging.A few hints towards this direction where already posted, but I thought I'd make it a tad more explicit. Can't help it... I like explicit. 😉
hobby
The definition of HOBBY is that is cost a lot of time and money.......
Good luck, Loek
following ANALOG GUY:
If you think audio is all your life so you must DIY with your experience & money.
The definition of HOBBY is that is cost a lot of time and money.......
Good luck, Loek
following ANALOG GUY:
If you think audio is all your life so you must DIY with your experience & money.
Hi all,
I have seen for a long time I am out on a limb here and I will not try to defend my position.
I have learned a lot about regulators and this one in particular as a result of the efforts put in by many to get us here.
I joined this Forum to learn and I will continue to learn.
Good luck in all your projects.
I have seen for a long time I am out on a limb here and I will not try to defend my position.
I can live with that.
I have learned a lot about regulators and this one in particular as a result of the efforts put in by many to get us here.
I joined this Forum to learn and I will continue to learn.
Good luck in all your projects.
That's good to hear. It helps clearing up the air again.AndrewT said:
Bob and Jens deserve many thanks for their efforts
. I hope that great initiatives like this will keep coming on diyaudio.com.
Good luck to you too.
Hans.
Boards have arrived
The PSU kits are kitted except boards and heat sinks (due to arrive today) I will start packing orders and expect to start shipping by Friday.
I suffered a hard drive crash yesterday. I'm glad PayPal will give me packing lists, since my backups were corrupted. All PayPal orders are fine.
If you did NOT with PayPal, please drop me a note telling me what you ordered
I think I have the few who sent checks, but I want to be sure.
The PSU kits are kitted except boards and heat sinks (due to arrive today) I will start packing orders and expect to start shipping by Friday.
I suffered a hard drive crash yesterday. I'm glad PayPal will give me packing lists, since my backups were corrupted. All PayPal orders are fine.
If you did NOT with PayPal, please drop me a note telling me what you ordered
I think I have the few who sent checks, but I want to be sure.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.