@tktran303 I really liked the Peerless Nomex drivers. Well behaved, smooth. Maybe not the pinnacle of clarity but certainly good within that price range.
The Exclusive 883 were not my cup of tea. I never heard the 882. The 884 8" were impressive.
I will miss Peerless, but SS Discovery fills some of that future void. i still miss Audax.
I have purchased drivers I want to use in the past, because pending distribution or MOQ have a hand in future availibility. I try to obtain those I see myself using.
I will miss Peerless, but SS Discovery fills some of that future void. i still miss Audax.
I have purchased drivers I want to use in the past, because pending distribution or MOQ have a hand in future availibility. I try to obtain those I see myself using.
Here's the 27TAC/GB and some other tweeters as a comparison point:
Please note absolute SPL is not calibrated.
1. Scan-Speak D2604/8330 (~DX25BG60- soft dome) on 40x20cm baffle. Tweeter offset 15mm from centre:
normalised directivity:
2. SEAS 27TACG in same box: 27K resonance is quite high. But it looks like something is happening around 20KHz- there is a dip in the on axis,
but the resonance is clearly shown in the off axis.
@wolf_teeth - did you get that dip around 20KHz also? I couldn't see it in SEAS' datasheet...
Normalised directivity:
Paying attention to the resonance(s) is thus a worthwhile consideration.
Now what about the ring radiator?
3. XT25BG60 (soft dome) ; in 30x24cm box, 15mm offset
Normalised directivity:
4. What about another aluminum dome?
B&W HF01287 600 series 5 aka ZZ28649 from 68x Series 2), tapered tube tweeter, naked (not on baffle)
The ultrasonic resonance is 34KHz, even higher than the SEAS 27TACG. And less fierce. Still a 1" aluminium dome, and still old (2014), but clearly geometry matters.
normalised directivity:
Please note absolute SPL is not calibrated.
1. Scan-Speak D2604/8330 (~DX25BG60- soft dome) on 40x20cm baffle. Tweeter offset 15mm from centre:
normalised directivity:
2. SEAS 27TACG in same box: 27K resonance is quite high. But it looks like something is happening around 20KHz- there is a dip in the on axis,
but the resonance is clearly shown in the off axis.
@wolf_teeth - did you get that dip around 20KHz also? I couldn't see it in SEAS' datasheet...
Normalised directivity:
Paying attention to the resonance(s) is thus a worthwhile consideration.
Now what about the ring radiator?
3. XT25BG60 (soft dome) ; in 30x24cm box, 15mm offset
Normalised directivity:
4. What about another aluminum dome?
B&W HF01287 600 series 5 aka ZZ28649 from 68x Series 2), tapered tube tweeter, naked (not on baffle)
The ultrasonic resonance is 34KHz, even higher than the SEAS 27TACG. And less fierce. Still a 1" aluminium dome, and still old (2014), but clearly geometry matters.
normalised directivity:
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Is focusing on too much on tweeter quality a bit misguided? After all "music lives in the midrange"
Ordered a pair of SB20FRPC30, allegedly the midrange is exceptional....
Ordered a pair of SB20FRPC30, allegedly the midrange is exceptional....
These days I have a hard time advising Seas drivers.
Not because they are bad, they are actually very well made speakers.
But the price/performance ratio is just not as good as other competitors (this even shifts more when looking at OEM prices).
Tymphany/Peerless really seems to be focused on just huge MOQ's at this moment.
Which is not only an issue for DIY'ers but also problematic for growing and upcoming businesses and startups.
The last few years I have seen to many models just going from perfect production to obsolete.
Even as a DIY'er I find it hard to invest in parts that might not be available anymore in a couple of years.
Obviously on that level it's totally subjective.
SB Acoustics, Seas and Tymphany/Peerless all make excellent high quality speakers that also really compete on a performance level. There are some obvious differences here and there, but the rest is literally all pixel peeping.
So pick whatever suits your project and wallet best.
I personally would only go for a waveguide instead of just a simple tweeter.
I would even pick a cheaper/simple tweeter + waveguide over anything fancy and expensive without a waveguide.
That being said, it all depends on what someone wants and is looking for obviously.
Not because they are bad, they are actually very well made speakers.
But the price/performance ratio is just not as good as other competitors (this even shifts more when looking at OEM prices).
Tymphany/Peerless really seems to be focused on just huge MOQ's at this moment.
Which is not only an issue for DIY'ers but also problematic for growing and upcoming businesses and startups.
The last few years I have seen to many models just going from perfect production to obsolete.
Even as a DIY'er I find it hard to invest in parts that might not be available anymore in a couple of years.
Obviously on that level it's totally subjective.
SB Acoustics, Seas and Tymphany/Peerless all make excellent high quality speakers that also really compete on a performance level. There are some obvious differences here and there, but the rest is literally all pixel peeping.
So pick whatever suits your project and wallet best.
I personally would only go for a waveguide instead of just a simple tweeter.
I would even pick a cheaper/simple tweeter + waveguide over anything fancy and expensive without a waveguide.
That being said, it all depends on what someone wants and is looking for obviously.
I really liked the Exclusive range, admittedly mostly for the looks. 😎
In any case, I am always fan of the look of inverted dust caps.
Even looks better with a phase plug.
I think overal performance and production quality is just better these days compared to those.
Is there a subject with SB26 SBAcoustics line and rest of their tweeters about their (too much) high Qts so lack of life, PRAT, energy attacks, in some contexts (low cross over?) ?
Wonder if the higher Fs tweeters are not more lively ?
Wonder if the higher Fs tweeters are not more lively ?
Higher Qt lack of life and energy attacks?
Are those the new voodoo words I missed in 2023? 🙄 🤔
Although not as strong as with woofers, even for tweeters they start to distort a lot more around Fs.
So (roughly) the same rule of thumb applies to tweeters, to start filtering them at least 2 x Fs for optimum performance.
In case of some tweeters this is also because of the (very) low excursion.
Some can even become very non-linear when being used around Fs.
In general the distortion of tweeters is a lot lower compared to woofers.
Plus additional break-up modes and what have you from woofers.
So no, I would find a tweeter with a Fs as low as possible and cross as low as possible.
Which is always a bit of a tango dance when you also want to get the directivity right.
(acutally really hard without a waveguide)
Are those the new voodoo words I missed in 2023? 🙄 🤔
Although not as strong as with woofers, even for tweeters they start to distort a lot more around Fs.
So (roughly) the same rule of thumb applies to tweeters, to start filtering them at least 2 x Fs for optimum performance.
In case of some tweeters this is also because of the (very) low excursion.
Some can even become very non-linear when being used around Fs.
In general the distortion of tweeters is a lot lower compared to woofers.
Plus additional break-up modes and what have you from woofers.
So no, I would find a tweeter with a Fs as low as possible and cross as low as possible.
Which is always a bit of a tango dance when you also want to get the directivity right.
(acutally really hard without a waveguide)
I reall wanted the glass fiber ones you used in your 2.5 ways, seemed to me near the ideal woofer for small pockets as mines. I finally purchased for my next (hope to beginn this summer) MTM, 4 x Peereless NE149W-08 drivers. They certainly cost me twice or third the price of the glass fiber though... I just did cause I almost not DIY loudspeakers, i.e. once a year. So I try to make a mix between what quality I believe to be needed and the poor deepness of my wallet.
Choice of a tweeter is also a pain for me but more because designs choice difficulty : WG or not, low cut off or not... all those shakespearians trade offs !
I would say to add to the GAS of the op, the ones I 'd like to try, though I certainly not buy more than two pairs to try for my MTM according the chosen cut-off :
T25S , Bliesma, doesn't seem to like WG, 2k hz seems the low use limit.
Morel CAT378 : the horned one... low end limit is not clear cause disto seems to increase too much below 2.5/2 k hz accordin the filter slope. Con: certainly sligth lack of resolution in the upper region
SB26CAC/ADC (certainly same sound but different cone color) in 5" AugerPro WG as the NE149>W are 5" woofers.
SEAS 22 TAC/G : seems everyone like it when used above 3.5 k hz, it's an hybrid metal, fabric (ring)
because of resolution this Seas could be benchmarked with the SB26STAC fabric. Con : difficult to filter fine for beginners like I am.
SEAS 27 TAC/GB : cons : high spl break ups a little too low (22k/25k hz, could nee a serie notch (i.e. // parts that impact on the sound, cap in the signal path mainly), I also don't like the idea the former is made of titaniam and the cone to be magnesium/aluminum : interconection is surely not as good for cooling than a a coil/dome made of the same piece where the dome acts a radiator. Plus : fabric surround is good for detaills/resolution.
Audax 20A mg, a high Fs pure magnesium cone. Con : high Fs, 1200 hz.
If I have more monney the Bliesma T34 aluminium in the fluid member'lense, which certainly the best choice for a little resolution more, with lossy off axis high end and confortable low cut off, my two MTM NE149w per side would need cause its severe break up at 1500 hz (the peereless I mean).
Virtually a GAS TANK I need to reduce to a camping GAZ can.
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So that's the rules I know too, but some tweeters seems more lively if you prefer that vocabulary and eventually wondered if it was about the Qts (also for the resolution/details) or motor tesla number/size : for instance : Morel/Dynaudio.... Some simply says there is no hope without 1" compression driver even at home listening volume.
hence my naive question... so nothing to see to your vocabular 2023 knowledge... but I certainly have vocabulary you even will not know in 2033 but it is not related to audio 🙂
something like : better attack/impact... often related to the low part of tweeter bandwidth with some instrument, often brass : trumpet, but also. Sorta of oppposit of etheral trebles if you prefer (sorry for the poor vocabulary)
Yes it could be Qms, but wonder about decay control and if Qts as to see with it : illustation the off axis (where decay stay very controlled) of some tweeter like OW1/OW2 tweeters (3/4 domes though). I am not sure it is only about spl magnitude but more how the tweeter can recover from its exursion without missing the next note attack... certainly the difficulty of rulling a high dynamik peak (spl attack) while still be able to play the harmonics (so also a decay question).
I look at a lot decay behaviors in such site like Dibirama or our ukrainian inmate HifiCompass and also Zaph older measurements on that.
Yes it could be Qms, but wonder about decay control and if Qts as to see with it : illustation the off axis (where decay stay very controlled) of some tweeter like OW1/OW2 tweeters (3/4 domes though). I am not sure it is only about spl magnitude but more how the tweeter can recover from its exursion without missing the next note attack... certainly the difficulty of rulling a high dynamik peak (spl attack) while still be able to play the harmonics (so also a decay question).
I look at a lot decay behaviors in such site like Dibirama or our ukrainian inmate HifiCompass and also Zaph older measurements on that.
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Seems to me it is also related to the off axis of the woofer you mix with it, no ? If you cut off with a 5" at a frequency that is as flat at 60° as on axis, is a WG really needed and adds about attack feeling/pratt in the low end of the tweeter band (and if it is here, which I do not know, seems to me there can be a lot of energy in acoustic music there, whatever I know most of the energy is below 800 hz in acoustic) ?
Are WG for a tweeter is really needed at home when the woofer is 5" or less for the off axis behavior and the so called control directivity ?
Are WG for a tweeter is really needed at home when the woofer is 5" or less for the off axis behavior and the so called control directivity ?
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My understanding is it's the opposite - wg advantage is for proper directivity in blending with larger drivers, like 6"+
In terms of price and availability in the UK, Monacor is good. Good mid-bass units like the SPH130 and SPH135AD. Don't know their tweeters.
you might wanna try a larger tw, like 28-30mm
sb29sdac/rdac
hivi q1r (remove ff)
sica lp110.28
monacor dt300
audax tw034
or even go with a 2-3" mid dome