Scott,
Thanks for correcting my error concerning CarderSound's v2 of the Madison and it's horn type. The last thing I'd want to do is to hurt Jeff Carder's sales ---{ even if it's done inadvertently }--- by giving incorrect information on the type of horns used in his new proprietory version of the CarderSound speakers!
These new proprietory v2 speakers must truly be something to hear. Jeff Carder informed me they're a significant step foward over his previous v1 speakers and his v1 Madison/Sachiko are the best speakers I've ever heard to date.
Thetubeguy1954
Thanks for correcting my error concerning CarderSound's v2 of the Madison and it's horn type. The last thing I'd want to do is to hurt Jeff Carder's sales ---{ even if it's done inadvertently }--- by giving incorrect information on the type of horns used in his new proprietory version of the CarderSound speakers!
These new proprietory v2 speakers must truly be something to hear. Jeff Carder informed me they're a significant step foward over his previous v1 speakers and his v1 Madison/Sachiko are the best speakers I've ever heard to date.
Thetubeguy1954
just a guy said:
The price differential had little to do with the new cabs but with at 1st a flirting with distributorship & dealers (distrib set the prices to allow for 2 more levels of profit, and 2nd a realization of what it really costs to build and sell speakers.
Jeff has since returned to a more direct model, so prices are somewher in between now.
The cardersound story really shows what the real cost of buying finished speakers at a retail store is. That same speaker that you could build, even with really fancy finish for <<$1k would cost $10k or more *especially if it came across the Atlantic) at your local hifi shop.
dave
thetubeguy1954 said:
If one doesn't mind what could be considered as a bit of self promotion, Jeff is considering FE206eN as the standard driver for v2. Jeff, who has heard both, considers the FE206eN to do better than stock FE206eSR -- I'd really like to see what can be done with FE206eSR.
dave
DaveCan, that comment was not about you. I just noticed today that cardersound is listing prices on their website again and they are 2 and in some cases 3x what they were last year (or maybe 2 years ago?).
I also noticed today that the fostex drivers at solen.ca cost almost 1/3 more than they did last week, I assume madisound is the same story. Happy holidays to us, I guess. IIRC it was about 1 year ago that they last increased dramatically (or was it 2?), so next year the 206e will probably be about $200 each. Good thing I already have my pair. I intentionally didn't check the 206esr pricing now, I don't even want to know.
I also noticed today that the fostex drivers at solen.ca cost almost 1/3 more than they did last week, I assume madisound is the same story. Happy holidays to us, I guess. IIRC it was about 1 year ago that they last increased dramatically (or was it 2?), so next year the 206e will probably be about $200 each. Good thing I already have my pair. I intentionally didn't check the 206esr pricing now, I don't even want to know.
planet10 said:
Dave, Jeff Carder told me the same exact thing! Which is a great testimony of how much of an improvement an EnABLed FE206e is over a stock FE206e. I still want you to EnABLe my FE206esr's Dave ---{ if I decide not to sell them }--- but I've been struggling financially as I stopped working on 10/15/08 and I'm waiting to see if my Social Security Disability payments will resume again. So you may yet still have a chance to see what you can do with a pair of FE206esr drivers!
==============================================
just a guy said:
Just a Guy, I may be mistaken but, as I know the FE206esr's were a limited edition driver, I don't believe anyone is selling new ones in any type of quantity. If you're lucky you can find a pair of NOS/NIB FE206esr's like I have stashed away. Yet even then most people won't part with them. I can only imagine what a NIB/NOS would fetch for a price!
Thetubeguy1954
just a guy said:
Solen's prices likely have more to do with the fall of the price of oil, and the CAD following closely. Many Canadians bemoaned $1.25/litre petrol, but now one can see that low gas prices are followed closely by an increase in a lot of other prices.
Madisounds prices are unchanged AFAIK, but in USD are some 25-30% higher for Canadians because of the exchange rate. (i just bought $1,3k in Fostex drivers yesterday from Madisound)
FE206eSR can only be found used, and really should fetch at least new price ($442/pr)
dave
Jeff pays Martin the agreed commercial license fee. He does things properly, unlike some other companies who didn't / don't.
Not a substantial profit. A reasonable profit for a small-volume manufacturer. A big box shifter makes very little in profit per item sold, but they sell a lot of them. Small artisan style businesses sell far fewer speakers -say, 50 per year, but they have a somewhat greater margin because of this. If they didn't, they couldn't stay in business. Nothing wrong or dishonest or unpleDoesn't just apply to audio -look at cars; Ford against Morgan for e.g. And furniture. Ikea against your local fine-furniture maker. And so on & so forth.
Not a substantial profit. A reasonable profit for a small-volume manufacturer. A big box shifter makes very little in profit per item sold, but they sell a lot of them. Small artisan style businesses sell far fewer speakers -say, 50 per year, but they have a somewhat greater margin because of this. If they didn't, they couldn't stay in business. Nothing wrong or dishonest or unpleDoesn't just apply to audio -look at cars; Ford against Morgan for e.g. And furniture. Ikea against your local fine-furniture maker. And so on & so forth.
Jeff is/was one of the one's that was doing everything right licence wise with Martin.
Anyone Scott & i were/are dealing with on a commercial basis was required too -- anything else is counter-productive, but it looks like sufficient number of commercial ventures were short-sighted enuff to short-circuit the availability of this wonderful tool. At least Martin is finding more time to have more fun.
dave
serenechaos said:
I have no complaints with the way Dave, Scott, and Jeff have treated me for the use of my software. I want that to be clearly understood.
The real problem was the total lack of support from the DIY community, people did not want to send the $25 that I requested to use the software. I have heard all kinds of reasons from people as to why they did not like this arrangement, basically people wanted it to be free again.
This past summer and fall, I worked on the next big set of upgrades to the calculation methods and the MathCad worksheets. This included corner loading, rotation of the speaker towards the listener, and a more advanced version that included rectangular room loading. I even added a BIB worksheet with the mouth firing up at the ceiling or down at the floor while positioned near a corner to calculate/include the resulting bass lift. It was a lot of hard work and I continue to check and correct these newest versions.
As I neared completion of these upgrades, I looked at what was going on with the licenses. I continued to have problems with people using the worksheets for commercial projects without the correct license. I also saw dropping interest, really almost no new interest and very few renewals, from the DIY community. I would have tolerated being ripped off by a few, figuring they would probably not succeed and would go out of business anyway, if there had been adequate support from DIYers.
After thinking about my options this fall, I decided to call it quits. It was just not worth my time to put new worksheets on my site and go through all of the effort to provide proper documentation. It was not so much people ripping me off, it was lack of interest from DIYers that killed the worksheets.
On the bright side, Dave is correct that I am having more fun doing my own speaker work with the time that the worksheets used to occupy. E-mail questions have slowed significantly and I don't frequent the forums as much, my active involvement in the DIY community is greatly reduced. I have a passive crossover worked out for my Jordan OB and Goldwood H frame design and also a passive version that uses the Fostex F120A in place of the Jordan. Parts are in the basement and I am working on building the crossovers, maybe by early January I will hear the results. In addition, I have started a folder for a short BIB article/study and then after that a back loaded horn design article which will hopefully lead to a finished BLH speaker design and build.
Hi Martin, I'm sorry to hear of the lack of support, especially because lack of renewals suggests that people did not delete them per the agreement.
However, your work could certainly be re-implemented as a server-based web app. That would allow you to "rent" it with enforceability. (But even better, it would open up the possibility of occasionally running sims on a supercomputer.)
Anyway, after you've spent your fill of weekends and evenings in your basement with your soldering iron, I hereby volunteer to code a terribly crude prototype for your possible disappointment or amusement, and maybe run a sim on one of the many supercomputers we have sitting around here in New Mexico.
Rest up, Martin! Then come back and blow our minds.
However, your work could certainly be re-implemented as a server-based web app. That would allow you to "rent" it with enforceability. (But even better, it would open up the possibility of occasionally running sims on a supercomputer.)
Anyway, after you've spent your fill of weekends and evenings in your basement with your soldering iron, I hereby volunteer to code a terribly crude prototype for your possible disappointment or amusement, and maybe run a sim on one of the many supercomputers we have sitting around here in New Mexico.
Rest up, Martin! Then come back and blow our minds.
Hello DIY'ers,
1) I am terribly discouraged about people not paying for the use of these plans by Martin.
Just to be sure, I paid $25 for the plan to construct a pair of Sachiko horns for my own private use- is that a yearly fee? I did not use the software itself as I could not understand the math involved, but I only paid once. (BTW- the Sachiko's with a Fostex FE206ES-R are magical!!).
2) There is a new Sonodyne SD-855 driver that I have a chance to buy for $600 in Korea (not including shipping). I am not up to trying to convince my wife to let me build a couple more Sachiko's. The Fonken for 8" drivers would probably work, but I have no plans. For the sake of space, I was hoping to use a Half -Chang to operate this driver, but do not know if it would work with this driver- here are the specs:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ul-8-inch-south-korean-fullrange-drivers.html
Is there anyone who could consult with me on this? I am open to suggestions- I would be very happy to pay them for up to say a couple hours work at say a total of $50/hour for some guidance- I know it takes some time to look at the data. I need some help on this. The Fonken for 8" drivers would probably work, but I have no plans.
Note, if it is of any interest to others- I can buy these speakers for $500 per each/FOB Korea if I can put together an order of 5 pairs of drivers if anyone is interested.
Thanks for any ideas- I appreciate it!
Karl Granat ph. 503 949-1162
1) I am terribly discouraged about people not paying for the use of these plans by Martin.
Just to be sure, I paid $25 for the plan to construct a pair of Sachiko horns for my own private use- is that a yearly fee? I did not use the software itself as I could not understand the math involved, but I only paid once. (BTW- the Sachiko's with a Fostex FE206ES-R are magical!!).
2) There is a new Sonodyne SD-855 driver that I have a chance to buy for $600 in Korea (not including shipping). I am not up to trying to convince my wife to let me build a couple more Sachiko's. The Fonken for 8" drivers would probably work, but I have no plans. For the sake of space, I was hoping to use a Half -Chang to operate this driver, but do not know if it would work with this driver- here are the specs:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ul-8-inch-south-korean-fullrange-drivers.html
Is there anyone who could consult with me on this? I am open to suggestions- I would be very happy to pay them for up to say a couple hours work at say a total of $50/hour for some guidance- I know it takes some time to look at the data. I need some help on this. The Fonken for 8" drivers would probably work, but I have no plans.
Note, if it is of any interest to others- I can buy these speakers for $500 per each/FOB Korea if I can put together an order of 5 pairs of drivers if anyone is interested.
Thanks for any ideas- I appreciate it!
Karl Granat ph. 503 949-1162
Blimey, surprising to see this thread back from the dead after a couple of years. Anyway, glad you like them. Makes it all seem worthwhile when I hear people are enjoying some of my old designs.
Just to stress, there is no charge for the Sachiko plans for DIY use from Dave or myself; I have to say that was a really nice gesture though, sending Martin a payment, as I used his worksheets in the design process. Commercial production is a different matter; a commercial license for MJK's software is mandatory.
Re this driver, see my reply in response to your identical request in the other thread.
Just to stress, there is no charge for the Sachiko plans for DIY use from Dave or myself; I have to say that was a really nice gesture though, sending Martin a payment, as I used his worksheets in the design process. Commercial production is a different matter; a commercial license for MJK's software is mandatory.
Re this driver, see my reply in response to your identical request in the other thread.
Hey Karl,
Boy are you ever getting around now. Say where did you ever get the idea to try Sachiko horns and especially FE206ES-R drivers in them?
If you think the Sachiko/FE206ES-R combo sound's magical you should hear Sachiko/FE208ES-R combo! Karl, you already know I want a pair of those Sonodyne SD-855 drivers so you have 2 pairs sold. In any event it's really great to see you popping up in the other audio forums now as well!Scott you're as surprised as I am to see a two year old thread I started springing back to life after all this time. Of course if it wasn't for Martin and yourself this would have never come to pass in the first place. The Sachiko Reference I ---{which is what I call the Sachiko/Fostex FE208ES-R/Pioneer HW-7 combo}--- is an incredible speaker besting any commerical or diy speaker I've ever heard, so far! So I am deeply in your debt and owe you my sincerest gratitude. Thank you so very much...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
There are, as yet, no plans for any Fonken with 8" drivers. And each box needs to be specifically for the driver being used.
dave
Sonodyne makes their own onken-style box for the SD-855 drivers. So I'd imagine if you purchased a pair of their drivers they'd probably either give or sell a copy of the plans for a reasonable price with them. They charge about the same for the cabinets ---{which I think are nicely finished}--- as they do for their SD-855 drivers. I'm neither a cabinet maker nor a manufacturer. Is $750 for a pair of cabinets as seen below about right from a commercial enterprise?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Thinking about it Tom, that is a good point. The price for the cabinet is reasonable I think given the relative complexity of the Fonken Onken type cabinet. Lots of work goes into this Sonodyne cabinet. That Onken in the photo obviously accommodates an 8" driver in the cabinet, and that would certainly work.
However there is one thing; from the look of it, the unit is made of Douglas Fir, though I could be wrong, I think I came across that on the net somewhere where I cannot find again.
The East Asians are very fond of Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga or false fir). It is a very flexible wood that can take incredible loads and shocks, but is not rigid like hardwood trees.
If you can believe it, I have seen huge Douglas Fir trees fall straddling a canyon, and it bounced back up and down, back and forth like it was made of rubber- and the bouncing went on and on. A hardwood log would have either broken or held together, but it would not have acted in any way like the Doug Fir.
The Fonken has a huge amount of bracing, but I would wager that it is not as rigid as a a Birch or Alder would be- just because those are hardwood and not softwood like the Doug Fir. As I mentioned, I am not completely certain that this is Doug Fir, but I believe it is.
I now have the wood clamps to make a speaker, and a cabinet maker will cut the parts for me out of plywood. So I was hoping to have my son put this together a good speaker out of a good hardwood plywood like Baltic Birch, or maybe Europly, and hopefully, save some money in the process. This is a consideration as the simple open baffle speaker does not look promising and the Sonodyne driver is inexpensive.
Best wishes,
Karl
However there is one thing; from the look of it, the unit is made of Douglas Fir, though I could be wrong, I think I came across that on the net somewhere where I cannot find again.
The East Asians are very fond of Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga or false fir). It is a very flexible wood that can take incredible loads and shocks, but is not rigid like hardwood trees.
If you can believe it, I have seen huge Douglas Fir trees fall straddling a canyon, and it bounced back up and down, back and forth like it was made of rubber- and the bouncing went on and on. A hardwood log would have either broken or held together, but it would not have acted in any way like the Doug Fir.
The Fonken has a huge amount of bracing, but I would wager that it is not as rigid as a a Birch or Alder would be- just because those are hardwood and not softwood like the Doug Fir. As I mentioned, I am not completely certain that this is Doug Fir, but I believe it is.
I now have the wood clamps to make a speaker, and a cabinet maker will cut the parts for me out of plywood. So I was hoping to have my son put this together a good speaker out of a good hardwood plywood like Baltic Birch, or maybe Europly, and hopefully, save some money in the process. This is a consideration as the simple open baffle speaker does not look promising and the Sonodyne driver is inexpensive.
Best wishes,
Karl
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