revelator vs. TLR vs. millenium

[tlee]

I've auditioned the ScanSpeak 2905/9900 and am about
to commit it for my next speaker. What I like about
the revelator is it's imaging and smooth accurate
high end. How do the Focal TLR or SEAS millenium
compare against the revelator? Any leads on where to
audition these two tweeters, in California?

I'm new to the list, so pardon me if these have been
covered before.

 

[cyclotronguy]

You could try Sigfried Linkwitz down in the South Bay. Lots of folks in the local Audiophile club too..... There are a bunch of folks around the San Francisco Bay Area who are active in loudspeaker building. Sorry don't have their emails or webpages here at work. Maybe somebody can step in here and provide.

cyclotronguy

 

[tg3]

Siegfried Linkwitz can be found here: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/

 

[navin]

what about the ravens or the SS ring radiator? if you get a chance to listen to these let me know. i live in india where non of these are available.

 

[DIY_Peter]

I never see the name Thiel here.

Their tweeters are at least as good as the SS revelators, maybe better.

http://www.thiel-partner.de/

not to be confused with Thiel USA, it's not the same company. In the US these drivers are known as Acuton

 

[Taco]

The SS Ringradiator is extremly good, it's much better than the old SS revelator. But also very expensive. The voices are so real, that my jaw dropped to the floor .

The Thiel & Partners tweeters are also very good. Although I never heard one . (read good things about these tweeters and Avalon uses them too)

 

[DIY_Peter]

The SS Ringradiator is extremly good, it's much better than the old SS revelator. But also very expensive. The voices are so real, that my jaw dropped to the floor .

I heard some bad things about designs with the revelator tweeters. Many people seem to preffer the cheaper SS tweeters.
You think they were talking about the old version?

 

[Taco]

De old SS revelator 9900 [IMGDEAD]http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/foto_d2905_990000.jpg[/IMGDEAD] sound sometimes a little harsh. (very little) The other 9800 and 9700 tweeters are a bit smoother en sound also very good. (maby less revealing)

But the new SS ringradiator [IMGDEAD]http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/foto_r2904_700000.jpg[/IMGDEAD]is very smooth, sounds much better than my own Vifa ringradiator (which is also a nice tweeter) ) there it sounds very neutral.

[IMGDEAD]http://www.d-s-t.com/vifa/data/foto_xt25tg30.jpg [/IMGDEAD]

 

[DIY_Peter]

I often wonder how big the difference is between the SS tweeters.

The proac response 2.5 uses the cheap D2010/8513

That SS ringradiator tweeter costs about 5x as much.. Seems a bit to expensive to me. But I've never heard it...

 

[Taco]

The proac 19mm dome is also very good, but it's a old design (Linn used it years ago) and everyone want to use 25 mm or 28mm domes. So these are hot. But I think that the 19mm dome is better than many other and more expensive >=25 domes.

I think it's the best SS-tweeter for the money. The new ringradiator is to expensive for most applications.

From a student's perspective (and others with little money to spend) I think the SS 8513, the Vifa ringradiator and Seas KT27 are very good tweeters for the money.

 

[Al.M]

The SS ringradiator looks nice. Have used the SS 9900, 9800, 9500 and 8513, Seas Mellinium & TAG25(?), Raven R1, ATD LeRibbon, Heil AMT1c and smaller monopole Heil, Vifa DG26(?). My order of preference:

1. R1
2. Heil AMT1c
3. ATD LeRibbon & 9900
4. Seas Mellinium
5. Heil monopole
6. 9800
7. Seas TAG25
8. 8513
9. 9500
10. Vifa

At the price range of the SS ringradiator don't forget others like Raven R2, Esg1,2 & 3, Accutons, Focal TLR and more.

 

[navin]

finally we have the voice of expereince.

So you prefer teh R1 to the 9900. have to compared the more expensive drivers? Ring Raditaor, R2, Accuton, TLR? would like to know your views on these.

Also what mids and bass would you partner these reall expensive tweeters with? PHL?

I was thinking of a system using a ring radiator, a 12M4631 and 3 or 4 18W4531. The number of 18W woofers are limited by my box size (internal dimensions 30"H, 6.5"W, 16"D). most probably i will use 3. 1 on the front and 2 on the sides in a push-push TL recomended by dave (planet 10). this project is only on the drawig board so if you guys have flames, opinions, ideas, alternate designs or drivers let me know. i am open to anything.

limitations:
width of system 9"
depth of system 18"
height of system 48"
bass: 95db at 40Hz without audible distortion
will be biamped (should Iuse a pass amp or a valve SE or a combination)

lastly i must have small wall hanging speaker design that mates well with these speakers these will be for surround and center.

this is why i am looking at a 15W8530-Vifa ring radiator or R1 fo the rears.

 

[Al.M]

On the other drivers the R2 is like the R1 but more treble presence, Accuton C-23 was too neutral.

You are asking $1000,000 questions on what is best with what. As always it depends on your own skills, time, tastes and situation. All the top 5 or more driver companies have very good units to match with their own tweeters. I'm sure you have seen the answers : Seas magnesium EX drivers have great detail but difficult resonance problems; SS carbons do great bass but average midrange; Focal kevlars & PHL are in between these others; 9900 is highly detailed but can be edgy sounding etc etc.

Your 15W8530-Vifa ring radiator or R1 fo the rears could be a great waste if you are only using an AV amp.

If you are keen on Ravens don't forget to checkout Esg ribbons (at E-speakers.com), in particular the Esg1 which is like a cheap Raven R3.1 for US$499.

 

[Peter Daniel]

I thought that Accuton tweeter was missing something when comparing to B&W titanium tweeter. Focals have the detail, but they can be sounding too agressive sometimes. When I started using Raven, I didn't noticed anything in particular that I didn't like. I also have some Triangle tweeters and they sound good as well.

 

[nobody special]

Peter,
I seem to remember reading that the Ravens are susceptible to melting down at times... have you found this to be the case? Also, are you using the high order network they recommend, or something of your own design?
-NS

 

[Peter Daniel]

It's usually me who writes about melting ribbons. Happened to me 3 times already. I was using 3rd order filter around 5 or 6k ant still at loder levels it tended to melt. When you see that aluminum element starts to move too much it means it's dangerous. Recently I removed crossover completely from my almost full range Triangle mid-woofers and I'm using only series capacitor wth Raven. At 1.5u the cap provides filtering around 10k, if my estimates are OK, and the Ribbon seems to be pretty safe. Anyway if I decide to play at room shaking levels, I just disconnect the tweeter and have almost the same detail at highs from my midrange drivers. The ribbon is only filling the very end of spectrum.

 

[nobody special]

The Ravens look extremely tempting... I just can't get my mind around that high order network, or the thought of destroying that expensive of a driver. Have you listened to them with the 8th order or other ridiculously high order networks they recomend? If so, how do they sound?

 

[Peter Daniel]

I didn't, it's hard to swollow the idea of three or four 20u caps in series with a tweeter, especially when one wants tp use some expensive brands.

But even if the ribbon melts, it's not a big problem. Just remove some screws and change it, that's a good part about this tweeter. It's also good idea to order replacement ribbons when you order tweeters.

 

[navin]

i found the B&W tweeter too forward. I normally prefer a laid back sound and so far am happy with the 9900. However one always need to strive to build something better. One option I am looking at is breakig up my SS 8546-9900 MTM and buildig a 2.5 way using series XO. has anyone used the XO at http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/lcaudio/lc_audio_crossovers.htm

any comments?

beyond this I am still contelplating building a system that will be a step or 2 up from my present system (bass is 2 x 12" from audio concepts per channel in sealed box mains speakers are MTMs described above)

 

[amo]

The SS Ringradiator is extremly good, it's much better than the old SS revelator. But also very expensive. The voices are so real, that my jaw dropped to the floor .

The Thiel & Partners tweeters are also very good. Although I never heard one . (read good things about these tweeters and Avalon uses them too)

I can not stop thinking about this quote, nor can I stop thinking about which tweeter is better, the Seas Millenium or the new SS ring radiator. Taco says that voices sound real with the SS radiator, but according to the charts that are floating around the net, soprano voices do not go above about 2.2kHz max. And the SS ring radiator needs to be crossed over at 2kHz with a steep XO.... So how much influence will it have on voices? This is of special concern to me becuase there is a good chance that I will use a high end midrange all the way to 3.5 kHz (Depending on tests and measurements of distortion/SPL/etc of what ever tweeter I get). If that will be the case, then do I need a USD 400 tweeter, with a low Xmax to boot? Would the money be better spent on the ATC 3" Super dome? Another alternative to not using a high midrange and keeping distortion down would be to double up on the tweeters, al la Dynaudio (again if measurements say that this is needed). Here the tweeter sound quality would be more important, but a single Seas Millenium has more then DOUBLE the capability of an SS ring radiator based on Sd and Xmax.... So I would need 4 of them per side to equal out two Milleniums per side . Clearely this will get expensive. (But probably cheaper then a Raven R3, and cooler looking too). So can someone comment on these ideas, because I need some fresh thoughts on this.

Thanks.