SB Acoustics is 96% cheaper and 2mm bigger. Might fit: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...2cacs25-04-4-white-ceramic-cone-woofer-4-ohm/
Here’s some measurements of the revel: https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-salon-loudspeaker-measurements
Aren't we missing something? This is a replacement midrange driver on a $16k speaker from 2000. Feels like putting a $50 tire on a 1960s E type jaguar. I would rather find a higher performance driver in the $400+ range. No?
Revel used to use SB Acoustics:
https://www.sensibleaudio.dk/2022/05/27/what-drivers-do-they-use-revel/
YMMV but I would personally prefer to replace a metal coned driver with a metal coned driver, not a tupperware driver.
In regards to the pricing, I've long noticed that the car audio versions of Morel and Dynaudio drivers typically offer about 5-10% more performance but cost about 10-20X as much. I used to be really active in car audio and have heard lots of Morel and Dynaudio car drivers. I'm not saying they're NOT good; they're GREAT. But they are astonishingly expensive. I think a lot of this is because the car audio market isn't what it used to be. In the 90s there were tons of people putting the HOME versions of Dynaudio and Morel in cars. But there were 5X as many people into car audio thirty years ago then there is today. Due to the tiny size of the "SQ" market for car audio, they have to put a LOT of margin into those drivers. Revel and Dynaudio likely sell thousands of speakers a year to the home market, but the "SQ" car audio market is much smaller.
I've really drilled into those spec sheets and there ARE some improvements over the home versions, but the "law of diminishing returns" is in full effect here. Another example of this are the three inch drivers:
1) Tymphany 3" woofer costs around $15
2) ScanSpeak 10F is basically a very much improved version of that driver (IIRC, the Tymphany 3" used to be made by ScanSpeak or Vifa at some point, but when Ken Kantor from NHT began running Tymphany, they moved manufacturing to China and prices dropped a lot. IIRC, the ScanSpeak 10F is still made in Denmark, hence the higher price. It IS better than the Tymphany but it's also 8X as expensive.) AudioFrog sells a driver that's comparable to the 10F but probably a little bit better, and that one is something like $300-$500 each. AudioFrog is a car audio company owned and run by Andy Wehmeyer who used to be one of the major people at JBL when they were more active in car audio.
Here's a couple of systems I've heard a bunch of times, with the Dynaudio and Morel car audio drivers, respectively:
Jon Whitledge - Magic Bus : https://www.magicbus.biz/photos.html (Jon ended up replacing the Dynaudio midranges with Purifi.)
Garry Summers - sponsored by Morel:
If you've seen Empire Strikes Back, Jurassic Park, Avatar, Toy Story, Titanic, Terminator II, Lord of the Rings, etc... You've heard Gary's stuff. Last I checked, he has more Oscars than Stephen Spielberg! He really knows his stuff, and his car ran Morel.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0838707/
https://www.sensibleaudio.dk/2022/05/27/what-drivers-do-they-use-revel/
YMMV but I would personally prefer to replace a metal coned driver with a metal coned driver, not a tupperware driver.
In regards to the pricing, I've long noticed that the car audio versions of Morel and Dynaudio drivers typically offer about 5-10% more performance but cost about 10-20X as much. I used to be really active in car audio and have heard lots of Morel and Dynaudio car drivers. I'm not saying they're NOT good; they're GREAT. But they are astonishingly expensive. I think a lot of this is because the car audio market isn't what it used to be. In the 90s there were tons of people putting the HOME versions of Dynaudio and Morel in cars. But there were 5X as many people into car audio thirty years ago then there is today. Due to the tiny size of the "SQ" market for car audio, they have to put a LOT of margin into those drivers. Revel and Dynaudio likely sell thousands of speakers a year to the home market, but the "SQ" car audio market is much smaller.
I've really drilled into those spec sheets and there ARE some improvements over the home versions, but the "law of diminishing returns" is in full effect here. Another example of this are the three inch drivers:
1) Tymphany 3" woofer costs around $15
2) ScanSpeak 10F is basically a very much improved version of that driver (IIRC, the Tymphany 3" used to be made by ScanSpeak or Vifa at some point, but when Ken Kantor from NHT began running Tymphany, they moved manufacturing to China and prices dropped a lot. IIRC, the ScanSpeak 10F is still made in Denmark, hence the higher price. It IS better than the Tymphany but it's also 8X as expensive.) AudioFrog sells a driver that's comparable to the 10F but probably a little bit better, and that one is something like $300-$500 each. AudioFrog is a car audio company owned and run by Andy Wehmeyer who used to be one of the major people at JBL when they were more active in car audio.
Here's a couple of systems I've heard a bunch of times, with the Dynaudio and Morel car audio drivers, respectively:
Jon Whitledge - Magic Bus : https://www.magicbus.biz/photos.html (Jon ended up replacing the Dynaudio midranges with Purifi.)
Garry Summers - sponsored by Morel:
If you've seen Empire Strikes Back, Jurassic Park, Avatar, Toy Story, Titanic, Terminator II, Lord of the Rings, etc... You've heard Gary's stuff. Last I checked, he has more Oscars than Stephen Spielberg! He really knows his stuff, and his car ran Morel.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0838707/
The midrange don´t have heat problems, here is word about the 4 inch driver!
From Stereophile:
"Not being able to find a suitable OEM midrange driver, Revel designed and manufactured for the Salon its own 4" (102mm) concave titanium-diaphragm transducer. It employs an unusually large (1.5", or 38mm) voice-coil, optimized high-flux neodymium motor, and co-injected fluoroelastimer rubber surround, with a Faraday ring on the pole-piece to reduce magnetic distortion. This large motor structure allows the midrange to play at high levels without suffering from heat buildup and the resulting compression."
Try to firmly push the 4 " cone "in and out", little carefully in the begainning more "hard" last 2-3 times.
Try to push it with more pressure from cone´s left side and also right side, downside, upside (for making the coil "clean" gap, and push the small fragments to "the bottom.
Do it ca 10-12 times in total, and then test to play some music.
About the tweeter!
Is the outside membran loose on your SS 9800? (behind the black plastic diffuser)
I am afraid your concern is unwarranted. You need a decent driver of appropriate sensitivity covering
400-2,200 Hz range. It is likely you would need some x/o filter mods to blend the responses smoothly.
I am quite confident Revel has a solidly engineered filter around a basic drive unit.
Have you studied the original x/o filter?
Yes indeed!
Burn a tweeter coil when i had the Salon´s 1 20 years ago.
All xover was like "a painting", but a little thin bobbin thread on the tweeter for my listeningslevels.
I made a new with the same mH and DCR
@mazzer The materials some manufacturers use for speaker internals can be surprising, given the fact even modest materials can have attributes which allow them to perform leagues better than they should.
Aluminum is one of those materials which can vary greatly in strength and wear resistance. Aluminum comes in many alloy forms. This in itself makes it hard to compare with other materials apples to oranges. Usually, motor parts are anodized to improve durability. The anodizing is very wear resistant compared to even some forms of steel. The oxide layer (as thin as it usually is) can be tremendously hard, able to wear into a pole piece with ease.
Some coatings are pretty remarkable. For example, some car manufacturers have switched over to PPS coated bearings. Compared to traditional babbitt tri metal bearings, these are very tough and wear resistant, even used with forged steel crankshafts.
Some manufacturers coat their VCs with a polymer which retains the windings under high temperature conditions and helps shed heat. An occasional scrape against the pole plate or central yoke under high excursion conditions won't hurt anything here. Many cone driver suspensions can allow the cone to tilt and rock when the driver is pushed hard, allowing the VC windings to contact the motor surfaces. The correct fix for this is a dual spider suspension, but that also has its drawbacks ie. reduced sensitivity from higher moving mass.
Aluminum is a great VC former material. It sheds heat very quickly and is rigid enough to retain its shape while dampening internal resonances. Compared to kapton, aluminium VC formers play cleaner into the mids and transfer more forward force to the cone. Kapton is lighter, but more resonant, plus it blisters when overheated. This can cause the VC to rub on an abused driver.
Aluminum is one of those materials which can vary greatly in strength and wear resistance. Aluminum comes in many alloy forms. This in itself makes it hard to compare with other materials apples to oranges. Usually, motor parts are anodized to improve durability. The anodizing is very wear resistant compared to even some forms of steel. The oxide layer (as thin as it usually is) can be tremendously hard, able to wear into a pole piece with ease.
Some coatings are pretty remarkable. For example, some car manufacturers have switched over to PPS coated bearings. Compared to traditional babbitt tri metal bearings, these are very tough and wear resistant, even used with forged steel crankshafts.
Some manufacturers coat their VCs with a polymer which retains the windings under high temperature conditions and helps shed heat. An occasional scrape against the pole plate or central yoke under high excursion conditions won't hurt anything here. Many cone driver suspensions can allow the cone to tilt and rock when the driver is pushed hard, allowing the VC windings to contact the motor surfaces. The correct fix for this is a dual spider suspension, but that also has its drawbacks ie. reduced sensitivity from higher moving mass.
Aluminum is a great VC former material. It sheds heat very quickly and is rigid enough to retain its shape while dampening internal resonances. Compared to kapton, aluminium VC formers play cleaner into the mids and transfer more forward force to the cone. Kapton is lighter, but more resonant, plus it blisters when overheated. This can cause the VC to rub on an abused driver.
I just replicate the 0,53 rear tweeter coil, but all the Salons xover have a high standard.
Sorry, not have them.
What i know is the Salons and the Studio the same, exept Salons extra 8 inch woofer.
Herevis a pic on Studio 2 crossover
@jaewn- would you have a picture with more resolution so I could read the resistors, as it would make it easier to build the xrossover. thank you
and the salon1 has a 4 inch midrange alonside the 5.25 inch midrange and an extra 8 inch bass unit, when compared to the studio