Hello community.
I have no idea if I'm at the good place, so feel free to move the topic.
I have a pair of SEAS MIMIR that I have been using since 2011. They work very well and I'm kind of happy with them. Kind of, because with such a low sensitivity, they are lazy at low level and need to be pushed hard to give all they have.
I have an ATOLL IN100 to provide the power 2x100W @ 8ohm)
Well, it was my first (and only so far) audio DIY project. Pictures coming soon, of course.
As I am going to move in a bigger house I would like to reuse the speakers (27TDFC and CA18RNX), and add some if needed, to build a 2, 2.5 or 3 ways speaker in a larger cabinet.
Thanks for your help 😉
I have no idea if I'm at the good place, so feel free to move the topic.
I have a pair of SEAS MIMIR that I have been using since 2011. They work very well and I'm kind of happy with them. Kind of, because with such a low sensitivity, they are lazy at low level and need to be pushed hard to give all they have.
I have an ATOLL IN100 to provide the power 2x100W @ 8ohm)
Well, it was my first (and only so far) audio DIY project. Pictures coming soon, of course.
As I am going to move in a bigger house I would like to reuse the speakers (27TDFC and CA18RNX), and add some if needed, to build a 2, 2.5 or 3 ways speaker in a larger cabinet.
Thanks for your help 😉
Ok, so I started to check the components for the filter.
I hardly find all those components.
Moreover, for exemple with the 1.5ohm resistor, there is a range of price that I don't understand (from 0.5 to 10€).
Do you have a company with good prices and references (selling from France/Europe)?
Which component should I put my money on and whichone should I save my €?
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I hardly find all those components.
Moreover, for exemple with the 1.5ohm resistor, there is a range of price that I don't understand (from 0.5 to 10€).
Do you have a company with good prices and references (selling from France/Europe)?
Which component should I put my money on and whichone should I save my €?
I know.
I did mine for the MIMIR and as far as I remember each one cost 50€.
But, as said earlier, it was in 2011 and I didn't do any crossover since then.
But I imagine that some parts are more important than other. Because from 1 to 20x the price per component, it's a huge gap!
I did mine for the MIMIR and as far as I remember each one cost 50€.
But, as said earlier, it was in 2011 and I didn't do any crossover since then.
But I imagine that some parts are more important than other. Because from 1 to 20x the price per component, it's a huge gap!
I'm sure the Dutch resellers here will gladly send some components to France, but you'll find most if not all at Toutlehautparleur 😉
Oh and don't waste too much money on caps and coils.
Oh and don't waste too much money on caps and coils.
OK.
I read a guy who said not to spend crazy money on resistor and to take the lowest price. So I guess going for cheap is the good option 😀
I also read that, depending on where is the component on the crossover, one should pay attention on its quality.
Regarding the crossover, is there a component for which I should take very good quality?
To finish: when I go to Toutlehautparleur and check, for exemple, the 3.9mH coil, there are a lot of different coils. Are they basically all the same or should I be careful about some parameter?
EDIT: oh and I forgot, I have 27TDFC instead of 27TDC. Marbakk, you mentionned that I should the ferrofluid from the twitter. What does it mean?
I read a guy who said not to spend crazy money on resistor and to take the lowest price. So I guess going for cheap is the good option 😀
I also read that, depending on where is the component on the crossover, one should pay attention on its quality.
Regarding the crossover, is there a component for which I should take very good quality?
To finish: when I go to Toutlehautparleur and check, for exemple, the 3.9mH coil, there are a lot of different coils. Are they basically all the same or should I be careful about some parameter?
EDIT: oh and I forgot, I have 27TDFC instead of 27TDC. Marbakk, you mentionned that I should the ferrofluid from the twitter. What does it mean?
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Leave the TDFC for how it is. Check the data sheets, they will not performe that different. You always can remove the ferrofluid later.
On the crossover, the 3.9mH deserves attention. Use a ferrite core inductor with a large core and at least 1mm wire. This type performs good and isn’t extravagantly priced. But TLHP doesn’t offer it, I’d give them a call if I were you. For the other coils, use air cores, L2011 with 1.4mm wire.
All caps over 15uF: pick bipolar types with smooth foil. All others: take foil types with polypropylene as dielectric. For all (green 😉 )resistors take Mundorf MR10. The white resistors in the scheme are part of the coils as stated. Mount all of it on a piece of board, coils away from each other and from the magnets. Connect with simple solid copper wire 1.5mm soldered and you are set.
On the crossover, the 3.9mH deserves attention. Use a ferrite core inductor with a large core and at least 1mm wire. This type performs good and isn’t extravagantly priced. But TLHP doesn’t offer it, I’d give them a call if I were you. For the other coils, use air cores, L2011 with 1.4mm wire.
All caps over 15uF: pick bipolar types with smooth foil. All others: take foil types with polypropylene as dielectric. For all (green 😉 )resistors take Mundorf MR10. The white resistors in the scheme are part of the coils as stated. Mount all of it on a piece of board, coils away from each other and from the magnets. Connect with simple solid copper wire 1.5mm soldered and you are set.
Good news
I've found this one on tlhp that seems good but RDC is 0.21 VS 0.28 on Troels recap. Is it OK?
Finding the exact coils with all the good diameter and RDC is really hard. How does wire diameter and RDC modify the crossover? Should I had resistor to compensate?
L2011 is 1.05mH but I can only find 1mH. I think it's still OK, right?
The Visaton coil budget wise seems the sensible option. Audiophiles don't like this kind of coils and since TLHP features Mundorf, you could ask them for the availability of the I Core, which would be an upgrade. But I doubt if you're going to notice any difference.
Variations of Rdc of coils: I would keep them within 30 or 40%. For series coils possibly somewhat lower. With coils and caps tolerance mostly is in the range of 5 to 10%, so I wouldn't bother picking 1 instead of 1,05mH.
Alltogether, you're on the right track. Keep us posted about the enclosure build!
Variations of Rdc of coils: I would keep them within 30 or 40%. For series coils possibly somewhat lower. With coils and caps tolerance mostly is in the range of 5 to 10%, so I wouldn't bother picking 1 instead of 1,05mH.
Alltogether, you're on the right track. Keep us posted about the enclosure build!
well ... I still have questions 😀
Are there any differences between Mundorf coils and Jentzen coils except packaging?
Are there any differences between Mundorf coils and Jentzen coils except packaging?
Not of significant importance. I think both manufacture (or order in China) themselves. Coils should be baked or otherwise fixed, all copper for electric wire is OFC these days. That leaves about price and availability as denominators. Jantzen build excellent stuff anyway, as does Mundorf. And Intertechnik and Visaton. And more...
After more than a year I'm back on this project.
I listed the coils and resistors I plan to get from TLHP. Please tell me if I'm wrong.
resistors: 1.5 / 5.6 / 15 / 68
coils: 3.9 / 1.05 OR 1.05 ? / 0.1 / 0.22
In the mean time I'm quite lost in caps world, even with markbakk's recommendations. Can you give me some help to pick the correct ones?
Thanks
I listed the coils and resistors I plan to get from TLHP. Please tell me if I'm wrong.
resistors: 1.5 / 5.6 / 15 / 68
coils: 3.9 / 1.05 OR 1.05 ? / 0.1 / 0.22
In the mean time I'm quite lost in caps world, even with markbakk's recommendations. Can you give me some help to pick the correct ones?
Thanks
You haven't specified a power rating for the speaker. 100 watt amp is pretty tame, you could get away with 80 v rated caps. V=(sqrtP)*Z . Z is 4 or 8 ohms usually. V you need bigger than the V corresponding to your maximum power.
John Curl says polyprophylene caps distort less, and most speaker supply houses carry them in various voltages. ESR matters but the ones sold in 100 VAC up are usually for speaker use mainly and will have low enough ESR.
Inductor wire size depends on power too. Good inductors will have a resistance spec. Don't go too high in resistance for 175 watt up speakers. Air core inductors are more linear than iron core inductors, don't cheap out IMHO. Most respected speaker products use air core inductors.
Picking crossover parts depends on your box design & measurements. I intend to use a couple of $50 analog graphic equalizers to set crossover points on my intial tests. Then take a measurement. Then take speaker inductance, dc resistance, take some modeling software and pick crossover L & C to achieve the slope & crossover frequencies you want. A good set of 400 watt crossover parts would be $100 for 6 db/octave and double or triple for 12 db/octave. Most people biamp and use a dsp these days, but you have to have the right brand of computer software and or cell phone software to communicate with the dsp. Then you have to keep your software updated if you change phones or need to change your operating point. I don't want to power 6 amp channels 14 hours a day, so I will eventually invest in inductors and capacitors for crossover.
You could stand to read Designing, Building, and Testing your Own Speaker System 4th ed by David B. Weems, before you start spending money. There are equations in there you can model with a calculator function of the op system or a hand calculator, you don't need computer software. I bought mine for $12 on ebay. Then find a project to copy. Sounds as if your original speakers are middle market, and rather insensitive too. The pair I bought recently are 99 db 1w1m, and the ones that were stolen were 101 db 1w1m. I have been trying to replicate the 101 db speakers with $230 in drivers each & $44 in MDF sheet. 101 db speakers were fine at 1/8 W to 70 W in a 3.5m long x 3.2 m high x 11 m long dead room. Average listening value 1 v pp or 1/4 watt. 70 w was for the cannon shot in 1812 Overture.
John Curl says polyprophylene caps distort less, and most speaker supply houses carry them in various voltages. ESR matters but the ones sold in 100 VAC up are usually for speaker use mainly and will have low enough ESR.
Inductor wire size depends on power too. Good inductors will have a resistance spec. Don't go too high in resistance for 175 watt up speakers. Air core inductors are more linear than iron core inductors, don't cheap out IMHO. Most respected speaker products use air core inductors.
Picking crossover parts depends on your box design & measurements. I intend to use a couple of $50 analog graphic equalizers to set crossover points on my intial tests. Then take a measurement. Then take speaker inductance, dc resistance, take some modeling software and pick crossover L & C to achieve the slope & crossover frequencies you want. A good set of 400 watt crossover parts would be $100 for 6 db/octave and double or triple for 12 db/octave. Most people biamp and use a dsp these days, but you have to have the right brand of computer software and or cell phone software to communicate with the dsp. Then you have to keep your software updated if you change phones or need to change your operating point. I don't want to power 6 amp channels 14 hours a day, so I will eventually invest in inductors and capacitors for crossover.
You could stand to read Designing, Building, and Testing your Own Speaker System 4th ed by David B. Weems, before you start spending money. There are equations in there you can model with a calculator function of the op system or a hand calculator, you don't need computer software. I bought mine for $12 on ebay. Then find a project to copy. Sounds as if your original speakers are middle market, and rather insensitive too. The pair I bought recently are 99 db 1w1m, and the ones that were stolen were 101 db 1w1m. I have been trying to replicate the 101 db speakers with $230 in drivers each & $44 in MDF sheet. 101 db speakers were fine at 1/8 W to 70 W in a 3.5m long x 3.2 m high x 11 m long dead room. Average listening value 1 v pp or 1/4 watt. 70 w was for the cannon shot in 1812 Overture.
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Well...
I wish I could spend time testing speakers and crossovers but time is something I don't have. I'm not a lazy guy, though.
I decided to follow Troel's design so that I don't need to test crossovers or cabinets. See page 1.
FWIW my amp is an Atoll IN100 that I plan to change for a ncore.
I wish I could spend time testing speakers and crossovers but time is something I don't have. I'm not a lazy guy, though.
I decided to follow Troel's design so that I don't need to test crossovers or cabinets. See page 1.
FWIW my amp is an Atoll IN100 that I plan to change for a ncore.
Myself and several friends at this forum have done extensive investigations into Component Quality. We decided that there are extensive reasons for thinking Air-Coil inductors are better than Ferrtes.
On questions of MKP capacitors, we decided that Cheaper is generally better. But there are exceptions. Why? Because flimsy thin-film Capacitors have high resistance at Low-frequency. Thus, a complete surprise, we recommend a bit of better-made Capacitors in Low-Frequency circuits.
To my disappointment, speaker genius Mr. Troels Gravesen seems to have bowed to Commercial pressures in sponsoring overpriced components. Generally we advise buying the cheapest. Avoids Buyer Remorse. Why pay more. 😕
On questions of MKP capacitors, we decided that Cheaper is generally better. But there are exceptions. Why? Because flimsy thin-film Capacitors have high resistance at Low-frequency. Thus, a complete surprise, we recommend a bit of better-made Capacitors in Low-Frequency circuits.
To my disappointment, speaker genius Mr. Troels Gravesen seems to have bowed to Commercial pressures in sponsoring overpriced components. Generally we advise buying the cheapest. Avoids Buyer Remorse. Why pay more. 😕
Actually neither of your two linked inductors are air core. Both are iron core. The more expensive one has a higher resistance, which is silly.
Among film caps, the one with lower esr could be better for large bass currents. Vendors here have not been listing that parameter.
Among film caps, the one with lower esr could be better for large bass currents. Vendors here have not been listing that parameter.