I understand what the hump is and have seen examples of it but I do not really get why it is such a big deal. This is like arguing about the tip of a mole on the azz of a beautiful supermodel. Sure the flaw is indeed there and it would be better if it was not there, but what's the big deal? There is a lot to love! The ESS DACs bring a high level of performance at a very modest price point, in essence making the highest level of audio performance very accessible. The hump is located so far down in level that it is, well, a nothingburger. And my apologies to the audiosnobs, but my Topping DAC that I purchased for um $150ish is just as good as your $5000+ DAC of the old days, and that is with hump and all.
Any idea if the ESS9068AS exhibits the typical hump. As implemented in Topping E50, this DAC has a very low noise and THD. And to my ears it sounds right in timbre, across the spectrum.
It is a giant killer when connected to a streamer and used in pure DAC mode. I use a LPS and a short DIY USB cable in which shield is disconnected at DAC end.
It is a giant killer when connected to a streamer and used in pure DAC mode. I use a LPS and a short DIY USB cable in which shield is disconnected at DAC end.
IIRC KSTR reported that when he increased hump type distortion enough to be audible to him, it produced the same kind of symptoms other people have been reporting for a long time: Listening fatigue and a glossy sound. In the foregoing context it may be useful to keep in mind that a threshold of audibility is an estimate of the level at which 50% of the population can't hear an effect, and the other 50% of population can hear the effect. Don't know why more than 50% of people seem to feel they are in the more sensitive 50%. Maybe its the same reason most people rate themselves as better than average drivers.
Last edited:
Pardon but some of you in here know how to make a DAC .
know electronics quite well.
how many are musicians?
maybe some of you are , was a legit question.
i have been a musician for over 40 years.
Piano, violin , guitar
I know what real instruments sound like.
and In that respect I think I know a bit about timbre.
that also is a fact and figure.
ESS DACs timbre is off. I haven’t heard one that reproduces sound properly in the mids to highs.
know electronics quite well.
how many are musicians?
maybe some of you are , was a legit question.
i have been a musician for over 40 years.
Piano, violin , guitar
I know what real instruments sound like.
and In that respect I think I know a bit about timbre.
that also is a fact and figure.
ESS DACs timbre is off. I haven’t heard one that reproduces sound properly in the mids to highs.
Guitar, bass, drums, hand percussion. Pro live sound. Recording, mixing, mastering. Study of orchestration, composition, psychology of music. Occasional music and or recording teacher. However, of those things only one was full time work for several years, which was the live sound stuff. How about yourself?
Regarding timbre, IMHO you are right. That said, you won't find answers in the consumer audio market nor in AP measurements. Barking up the wrong tree there.
Last edited:
piano , violin and mostly guitar.
was a guitar teacher for awhile.
years and years of playing and practicing.
people want to talk about facts.
ok sure. Game on.
i can accept math and measurements. In fact I love em.
but dont make science dogma all of a sudden.
it’s a fact that I’ve played music so long I know the tactile feel of and instrument relative to a note or technique.
basically a very intimate relationship with certain instruments.
and for those who know. Another fact.
your relative pitch improves greatly playint an instrument for so long.
on good days I can tune by ear to A440. And it’s spot on.
so please, maybe work with us here people.
i haven’t heard an ESS DAC that gives accurate timbre from the mids on up.
its always a bit glassy for lack of better terms.
It’s like an engineer holding a DAC in his hand saying this has perfect timbre and reproduces a cello perfectly in timbre.
and a concert cellist saying “ not really”
and the engineer refutes him.
go figure
I mean to be honest if one knows anything about musical instruments is that hardly any stereo really comes that close.
most instruments are pretty darn bright and loud af. With crazy dynamics
ever hear a trumpet up close?
a drum kit?
even an oboe can get flippin loud.
our systems are much softer.
and a concert cellist saying “ not really”
and the engineer refutes him.
go figure
I mean to be honest if one knows anything about musical instruments is that hardly any stereo really comes that close.
most instruments are pretty darn bright and loud af. With crazy dynamics
ever hear a trumpet up close?
a drum kit?
even an oboe can get flippin loud.
our systems are much softer.
@tone?
You are now seriously thread-jacking this thread, read the title and post #1 again, and start a new thread if you wish.
You are now seriously thread-jacking this thread, read the title and post #1 again, and start a new thread if you wish.
Agreed. If we want to get into music theory, ear training, etc., we need to start a new thread in another forum. Interesting subject, but not something to get too deep into here. Suffice to say some things some people hear are real, but not everyone hears everything in exactly the same way. Pitch perception is one example, and so may be perception of musical timbre.
Last edited:
no I am not.
it’s totally related.
we were taking about facts and figures for the ESS hump and it’s sound.
the credentials were mentioned for the purpose of facts and figures on my assessment of the aforementioned chip.
just because you don’t like something doesn't mean it’s hijacking a thread
So is ESS experiencing shorter life cycles in technology which effect rollout of chips with faults?
That is ESS has to create new chips in a shorter time to meet competition and thus products role out with more flaws
or is it also that they make their chips with so much flexibility that DAC designers can’t implement them as easily?
i heard that they have a ton of options in the chips operation
That is ESS has to create new chips in a shorter time to meet competition and thus products role out with more flaws
or is it also that they make their chips with so much flexibility that DAC designers can’t implement them as easily?
i heard that they have a ton of options in the chips operation
Mr. Tone?,
Sir, you have been making your points well enough so far. Please let's not jump to too many conclusions about what may or may not motivate ESS. That probably won't help your credibility and could risk more to the opposite effect. That you 'know what you perceive/hear from a musical perspective' is something you can speak to more authoritatively.
Sir, you have been making your points well enough so far. Please let's not jump to too many conclusions about what may or may not motivate ESS. That probably won't help your credibility and could risk more to the opposite effect. That you 'know what you perceive/hear from a musical perspective' is something you can speak to more authoritatively.
Why is everyone so touchy around here ?
we are discussing In a relaxed manner.
I’ve heard that their chips are very open to changes.
and I could care less about credibility etc.
im too old for caring about stuff like that.
i was actually asking the more technically adept folks on for all that
we are discussing In a relaxed manner.
I’ve heard that their chips are very open to changes.
and I could care less about credibility etc.
im too old for caring about stuff like that.
i was actually asking the more technically adept folks on for all that
To make a change to a chip apparently costs around $1,000,000, the price of making a new mask. Thus changes are not done lightly. Usually fixes are only implemented when its time for a new model to come out, if then. Likely depends in part how confident they are prospective changes won't create new problems.
Also, your credibility is about all you have here. If you are not credible, many will feel free to ignore whatever truth you may have to offer. Some people will go farther and try to ruin you, to discredit you and everything you say. For one example, serious damage was done to the reputation of John Curl for telling the truth and saying Bybee devices could affect sound. In the end I think we now can understand how he could have been right and how his critics might have missed what they didn't think of to look for. Too late though, the damage was done.
If you don't believe me, here is a recent quote from another thread:
You are not "Rick Miller" at all but a shill trying to inject marketing BS into DIYAudio.
Or "Rick Miller" got a second job, working from home.
NO WAY you are just a random DIYAudio member, "just sharing some wonderful News"
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/power-conditioners-and-cords.391921/post-7204321
My comment: If too many people start thinking about you in that type of way, you can expect to be excoriated, reviled, ridiculed, villainized, etc. Its happened before and it has driven away some good people.
Also, your credibility is about all you have here. If you are not credible, many will feel free to ignore whatever truth you may have to offer. Some people will go farther and try to ruin you, to discredit you and everything you say. For one example, serious damage was done to the reputation of John Curl for telling the truth and saying Bybee devices could affect sound. In the end I think we now can understand how he could have been right and how his critics might have missed what they didn't think of to look for. Too late though, the damage was done.
If you don't believe me, here is a recent quote from another thread:
You are not "Rick Miller" at all but a shill trying to inject marketing BS into DIYAudio.
Or "Rick Miller" got a second job, working from home.
NO WAY you are just a random DIYAudio member, "just sharing some wonderful News"
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/power-conditioners-and-cords.391921/post-7204321
My comment: If too many people start thinking about you in that type of way, you can expect to be excoriated, reviled, ridiculed, villainized, etc. Its happened before and it has driven away some good people.
Last edited:
Yes you are threadjacking and going off topic. The moderation team have received several complaints about your behavior. Please stay on topic (ADC). Continued disruption may result in your removal from the thread.