What I liked in the 805 D is the single order XO of the woofer and the well established port. The tweeter is XO 2nd order.
It integrated the bass better than the bigger models. It had that sparkle that the other series 700 lacked.
It integrated the bass better than the bigger models. It had that sparkle that the other series 700 lacked.
Now my thoughts are like, after the class D regulator, I might want to stick 4mF of pure film capacitors XD
No doubt. I will take Arcam as my cheap amp choice. My friend has Nautilus 802 and McIntosh Millennium tube amp which fits the speakers like fist fits a nose but it all looks rich and preserves the value well. B&W is one of the least desirable speaker's brands in my opinion despite their wild popularity due to rather nice esthetics, still better then Kef which is the bottom of the barrel -also wildly popular because of a totally incapacitating the crowd of innocents marketing campaign and nice esthetics as well. After all it's not you but your girls who decide which box greets the living room.
It is absolutely astounding how most people buy the wrong speakers and wrong amps for their music of choice and try to force the system to perform what it can't by the simplest laws of physics. All those wedding bands pretending to be rock bands performances but having the "air", the steely sliding violins and opera singers sounding like cows to prove audiophile affiliation and culture . This from people being involved for years and years in hobby who often had written hundred of pages on various internet foras.
I agree... and yes (Kef) are some of the worst, pro-ac loaded towers with tiny drivers very boomy 'but somewhat fast sounding and very dynamic but lacking refinement totally', then Sonus Faber very impressive for the size and cost.
The Castle Knight 5 was more pleasurable for half the price in the small towers , Epos tiny better.
I completely ignored awesome amplifiers simply due to how they looked and lacked features and were minimalists and could not swallow the price, it looked like a rip off.
The Castle Knight 5 was more pleasurable for half the price in the small towers , Epos tiny better.
I completely ignored awesome amplifiers simply due to how they looked and lacked features and were minimalists and could not swallow the price, it looked like a rip off.
Yep, my whole point about this thread. Refinement (resolution) vs speed/dynamics and air. I feel like there are speaker options that will present the whole picture, but perhaps not with my amp or phono stage or...other gear. And this issue of gear matching is what keeps me from being able to find my holy grail. Sadly, I'm 63 with limited finances (I've worked in the non-profit world my entire life, and have 2 kids in college - late bloomer!). And by the time I'm able to properly retire, my upper frequence limit will probably be 8k or less!
Now, I put another amp into the system this evening, a class D 50wpc or so amp (not a great one at that, but not bad either) and gave a listen. The air further receded but the low end emerged a little. It wasn't bad, and if I'd never heard other gear, I could probably have been happy with it. But the overall presentation is much better, to me, with my little 1.8wpc 6BM8 tube amp (thanks Eli D). Yes, even with these speakers that are rated no lower than 30wpc. Perhaps tube watts are different as some say, though how, electronically or acoustically, I have no idea. As a tube guy I have to say I'm not much of a believer that certain speakers really need lots more power. Current delivery perhaps (like my Maggie 3.3rs) but not seemingly watts.
How's the air with Fith or Mahler on 6BM8 and B&W ? Wagner ? Led Zeppelin?
How about Daft Punk? It also depends on your music choice. Small ensembles, chamber, folk are not a taxing material power wise . They are taxing if it comes to tonality. Nobody is going to come to your house and dictate what you should use to increase your enjoyment from listening. Try Facebook marketplace or check if there is a local audioclub or simply a circle of people interested in audio. Usually these people love to share ,and lend the equipment stacked in the closets and under beds. You can only have one wife but 10 amps is not forbidden and everyone I know in this hobby have at least 3 and some 30. It is a nice hobby for people who are able to control it and do not develop a physical addiction to sound properties. After that it's a sickness driven activity. All the best
How about Daft Punk? It also depends on your music choice. Small ensembles, chamber, folk are not a taxing material power wise . They are taxing if it comes to tonality. Nobody is going to come to your house and dictate what you should use to increase your enjoyment from listening. Try Facebook marketplace or check if there is a local audioclub or simply a circle of people interested in audio. Usually these people love to share ,and lend the equipment stacked in the closets and under beds. You can only have one wife but 10 amps is not forbidden and everyone I know in this hobby have at least 3 and some 30. It is a nice hobby for people who are able to control it and do not develop a physical addiction to sound properties. After that it's a sickness driven activity. All the best
How about a compression tweeter and waveguide with a suitable means to find the right EQ..
Yep, I keep an eye out on FB and elsewhere, but there are few real deals these days except at the dump! Unfortunately. I'll have a go at Beethoven and Mahler (not regulars in my cue) and report back (assuming I have them on hand or can find a reasonable way to play them). Air, of course, is the real problem with these B&Ws in the first place, but I'll see what I hear. I mostly listen to jazz, folk, lighter rock, acoustic and more, along with some Teleman and a few other "classical" composers, though I do go for some heavier stuff on occasion too (led zeppelin - I AM 63 after all). And I play bass in a band that does mostly somewhat harder edged music. Electronica doesn't generally float my boat, though I do know that it can be useful for testing gear.
Worth consideration, and I've been downloading manuals and such and now have what I believe is the crossover schematic. That will help. The connection plate has two sets of terminals and I'm fairly sure one is for just the tweeter, which means I can experiment a little.
You need 1 watt with proper control of phase and impedance, then you need maybe 10 watts extra for dynamics.
Many factors : slew rate, how fast the amp is able to raise the voltage to track the signal, also is the amplifier able to drive asymmetrical waveform, does it blurs bass or treble, can it handle music without going into fits of oscillation etc.
I heard Rotel with B&W and I approve it, another person here said they are bad sounding, they do provided to my opinion sufficient 'air' , I have no other recommendations.
Many factors : slew rate, how fast the amp is able to raise the voltage to track the signal, also is the amplifier able to drive asymmetrical waveform, does it blurs bass or treble, can it handle music without going into fits of oscillation etc.
I heard Rotel with B&W and I approve it, another person here said they are bad sounding, they do provided to my opinion sufficient 'air' , I have no other recommendations.
Well , I didn't recommend Rotel based on my general experience with the brand. It may sound great with B&W . Another brand I'd rather avoid but not when it's free ( applies to Rotel as well since free usually sounds the best in my book )
Maybe the sugden A21, it is a proven circuit and has quite advantages such as a single pole capacitor output, it might just give you that air and detail. I have a similar monos with regulated power supplies.
I prefer 2 output transistors and no servo to control DC, the output capacitor sounds better when properly integrated.
I had a 4 output transistors capacitor less amp with DC servo, dual rails, quasi regulated power supply with way poor sound vs my current amps.
I had a 4 output transistors capacitor less amp with DC servo, dual rails, quasi regulated power supply with way poor sound vs my current amps.
I don't know if I'll keep these ultimately, but it's definitely worth some experimenting. This afternoon (after signing off from work a little early for the day) I put the JBL bullet tweeters (2402H) into the system (in the boxes atop the speakers, and back to the 6BM8 tube amp). I don't recall at the moment what cap I used with them in my DIY speakers - they were simply supplementing the BOFUs as they rolled off (not necessarily accurately). I think the rolloff point for the JBLs was somewhere around 6-7k, maybe a little more or less, but basically would be the same with the B&Ws based on some calculations.
Yes, this was a bit of a random swing at the problem. What I noticed was there is a definite return of some of the air, maybe lots of it. But the coherence of the stock B&Ws seems to have been lowered. Not a lot but seemingly noticeable. Not sure yet how to be more descriptive yet. It just seems like things are a little less in control and in sync than stock. They sound great on softer/quieter music and a lot of other music, but there is something amiss with louder or more complex music. This isn't to say this observation is the final word. I have to try more music and be a bit more careful before I'm sure about anything. Maybe I'll try some Mahler or 5th (😉). Right now, at nearing 11pm the music is turned down a bit but I'm happy with how good it sounds turned down.
I guess this will be a journey. But overall I'm glad I've experienced this level of detail and resolution in my system.
Yes, this was a bit of a random swing at the problem. What I noticed was there is a definite return of some of the air, maybe lots of it. But the coherence of the stock B&Ws seems to have been lowered. Not a lot but seemingly noticeable. Not sure yet how to be more descriptive yet. It just seems like things are a little less in control and in sync than stock. They sound great on softer/quieter music and a lot of other music, but there is something amiss with louder or more complex music. This isn't to say this observation is the final word. I have to try more music and be a bit more careful before I'm sure about anything. Maybe I'll try some Mahler or 5th (😉). Right now, at nearing 11pm the music is turned down a bit but I'm happy with how good it sounds turned down.
I guess this will be a journey. But overall I'm glad I've experienced this level of detail and resolution in my system.
These small towers are balanced to do what they can do. The addition of the tweeter changes the resistance and impedance of the top of the circuit so it can affect the midrange as well.
HF speakers are balanced +/- 3db or less from 1khz ... the 'air' is best defined as the quiet background with all the resonances and details of the recording.
Some amplifiers hide the background, tube amps are good at creating ambiance but hiding much about the sonic signature of the sound.
Like a hifi system should not only sound smooth and pleasurable and also with more resolution than a tablet...
I found many times that a small portable speaker had somewhat more attack than my hifi setup until now.
HF speakers are balanced +/- 3db or less from 1khz ... the 'air' is best defined as the quiet background with all the resonances and details of the recording.
Some amplifiers hide the background, tube amps are good at creating ambiance but hiding much about the sonic signature of the sound.
Like a hifi system should not only sound smooth and pleasurable and also with more resolution than a tablet...
I found many times that a small portable speaker had somewhat more attack than my hifi setup until now.
The 1.8 watts does seem to be a relatively low power output. The B&W DM603 S3 loudspeakers have around a 90dB efficiency, which is likely a bit lower than that of your other loudspeakers. The Stereophile measurements also seem to indicate a bit of a peak in their frequency response at around 10kHz. That could explain why they might be perceived as having "loads more detail" than other speakers.
Of course, if the output impedance of the tube amplifier is high, then there will also be significant attendant changes in frequency response caused by amplifier/speaker impedance interaction effects. I'd try using a 50W/channel solid-state amplifier to do any loudspeaker "comparisons", in order to take the amplifier out of the equation. There may otherwise be too many confounding variables for mere mortals (audiophiles) to contend with.
Thanks for sharing that test result. But the speaker does not drop below 4 ohms over its main operating range where the power demands are more significant. Again, a powerful, by SET standards, ≥50W/channel solid-state amplifier would be worth trying.
That could work if the Piezo has a specific & important 'drive filter' to actually make it a "Super Tweeter" rather than a screeching mess.
However, I still think this is like putting 'lipstick on a pig'.
The obvious thing to address is a low power amplifier with low current capacity = high output impedance and poor damping factor.
It's the one single reason why simple and wonderful SET amps failed to gain significant traction on the marketplace. 100dB speakers with good enough quality are neither cheap nor simple nor acceptable by spouses. I have 845 Set amp producing 40W. On purposely built for tube amps Living Voice Avatar II speakers of claimed 94 dB ( doubtful ) the sound is somewhat loose and slow like molasses. This on $15k retail equipment ? ( the fact it was almost a curb pickup does not matter )
I put the amp on 100dB horn set ( 80 hz and up ) and what a dramatic change ! The PRAT Naim claims to possess ( and I have 2 sets of it ) is nothingburger comparing to a combination of this particular SET / horn speaker.
Now , I witnessed a pair of 0.25W 46 SET monoblocks whooping every amp ( including mine , and atmosphere awards winning D- class ) on a pair of Altec contraptions built around 414/802 and multicellular horn on specific jazz material but I believe it was a instance of mass psychosis and amp was in some sympathetic clipping order all the time. Another proof that audiophools are mostly deaf retards with too much time on thier hands 🙂
I put the amp on 100dB horn set ( 80 hz and up ) and what a dramatic change ! The PRAT Naim claims to possess ( and I have 2 sets of it ) is nothingburger comparing to a combination of this particular SET / horn speaker.
Now , I witnessed a pair of 0.25W 46 SET monoblocks whooping every amp ( including mine , and atmosphere awards winning D- class ) on a pair of Altec contraptions built around 414/802 and multicellular horn on specific jazz material but I believe it was a instance of mass psychosis and amp was in some sympathetic clipping order all the time. Another proof that audiophools are mostly deaf retards with too much time on thier hands 🙂