Sure. All it takes is results from some ears-only testing. Some of us actually trust our ears and those of others.
Ed, 2.5V is the worst-case input sensitivity for consumer power amps (with the exception of one limited production oddball from Pass Labs). At that level, most amps are clipping, so the <-100dB stuff is kinda immaterial.
"Sound quality" of a resistor or any other component is rather relative.
It always depends on the person's personal preference and how its system source/amplifier/speakers sound.
If you have a very analytic source/amplifier and speakers with a flat frequency response (or worse: tilted highs), I can imagine that a carbon resistor or a PIO cap can be welcome 🙂
Now, I've made my speakers myself and I voiced them to my liking so that they sound very natural without listening fatigue.
My speakers sound very transparent, a change in the source or amplifier is easily heard.
The components that I used are chosen for best transparency.
But if I find a component better or worse it is still my preference in my system 😉
My resistor preferences are non-inductive wirewounds (Rhopoint, Mills), Dale CMF/RN and Vishay bulk foils and there are probably plenty of others that I haven't used...
It always depends on the person's personal preference and how its system source/amplifier/speakers sound.
If you have a very analytic source/amplifier and speakers with a flat frequency response (or worse: tilted highs), I can imagine that a carbon resistor or a PIO cap can be welcome 🙂
Now, I've made my speakers myself and I voiced them to my liking so that they sound very natural without listening fatigue.
My speakers sound very transparent, a change in the source or amplifier is easily heard.
The components that I used are chosen for best transparency.
But if I find a component better or worse it is still my preference in my system 😉
My resistor preferences are non-inductive wirewounds (Rhopoint, Mills), Dale CMF/RN and Vishay bulk foils and there are probably plenty of others that I haven't used...
Experiment, part two:
Removed KOA resistors from one active xover, replaced with identical value PRP and Vishay/Dale.
Disclaimer: No men in lab coats were present with screens to hide equipment, so this evaluation is completely invalid. As a pathetic human, I am incapable of making an unbiased sighted comparison.
Conclusion: one resistor definitely sounds different from another, perhaps better.
I have decided which is the better one. It is not the one I initially expected to choose. However, now when music is playing, I think "Ah, violins" instead of, "Who stepped on a cat?" In fact, I didn't believe one type of resistor in this circuit could make so much difference. With an open mind, it is possible to learn and accept change. With blind belief in "authority", progress is unlikely.
Peace,
Tom E
Removed KOA resistors from one active xover, replaced with identical value PRP and Vishay/Dale.
Disclaimer: No men in lab coats were present with screens to hide equipment, so this evaluation is completely invalid. As a pathetic human, I am incapable of making an unbiased sighted comparison.
Conclusion: one resistor definitely sounds different from another, perhaps better.
I have decided which is the better one. It is not the one I initially expected to choose. However, now when music is playing, I think "Ah, violins" instead of, "Who stepped on a cat?" In fact, I didn't believe one type of resistor in this circuit could make so much difference. With an open mind, it is possible to learn and accept change. With blind belief in "authority", progress is unlikely.
Peace,
Tom E
I'm with you, Tom. I always use selected resistor types for my best stuff. At a minimum, I specify the feedback resistor types. We have found this to be most important. It is relatively easy to use 'acceptable' resistors. Just follow Ed Simon's recommendations, we do.
I don't quite understand your question. "Ears-only" is English for "ears-only," i.e., no use of eyes, preconceptions, whatever. Either two things can be distinguished by their sound alone or they can't.
There's a LOT of literature on audibility thresholds. A few minutes of literature searching should be enlightening to you. One useful keyword is "masking."
There's a LOT of literature on audibility thresholds. A few minutes of literature searching should be enlightening to you. One useful keyword is "masking."
And some of us use specifications, testing, standards, math, design and redesign. Then we listen to be sure we haven't done something silly.
Saves time in the long run and yields good results.
There are differences in components, circuit design, layout etc. If you try to test all the variables by double blind listening tests, you might actually be able to prove DC exists. (Meaning it will take forever.)
So when I measure a carbon film resistor that has distortion at 1.125 volts and 30 hz at -54 db re 1.125 V RMS, I don't use it anywhere. Saves a lot of time and hot air.
Who would? See my oft-linked article from the 1950s. That straw man is a fire hazard.
No we are talking about a modern carbon film resistor, not a carbon composition resistor.
Carbon composition was ground up coal in a case with leads. Carbon film is the current process that deposits a much higher purity film on a ceramic body.
Are you saying you only use metal film resistors? Why would that be the case? There is no double blind listening test I am aware of that says metal film resistors sound better than carbon film types. Or is it based on measured specifications only?
I could also mention I have found lousy metal film resistors. As they cost the same as the better ones, I don't buy the bad ones.
Having spend some years in the resistor manufacturing biz, I'm fairly familiar with the differences, but thanks for the review. I'm sure with enough searching I could find a pathological carbon film resistor, but I haven't yet. I don't doubt that they exist, I just haven't bothered looking. Pathological resistors are evident in simple measurements irrespective of their material or construction. That's why they're pathological!
No, I don't limit myself to one type- I use resistors that are appropriate for their position in circuitry. To paraphrase Olivier to Hoffman, "Try engineering, dear boy, it's much easier." One also chooses tests appropriate for the claim involved. That's a subtlety that I'm sure you understand, but don't let that get in the way.
No, I don't limit myself to one type- I use resistors that are appropriate for their position in circuitry. To paraphrase Olivier to Hoffman, "Try engineering, dear boy, it's much easier." One also chooses tests appropriate for the claim involved. That's a subtlety that I'm sure you understand, but don't let that get in the way.
I prefer to chose a specific brand and size of resistor for a specific application. The most critical are, of course, the feedback resistors, but many resistor brands, besides having more distortion than similar brands that Ed Simon was kind enough to point out, have EXCESS NOISE way above and beyond the spec, meaning that they are defective in manufacture. Excess noise would probably be easier to note immediately, but in my business, everything counts, and IF you want something exceptional, you have to put the effort into making it exceptional.
SY,
I am glad to hear you spent your high school years sweeping up in a resistor factory. (I reserve the right to tilt what has been written as much as you do.)
You are aware that my method requires ten resistors of the same type and performance. So it is not a case of one bad resistor. It is an example of a low quality product produced for the lowest cost market.
What was more interesting is the difference between identical specification and price resistor brands.
Yes one does "choose tests appropriate for the claim involved." So why do you insist on double blind tests when you can't control all of the important parameters?
ES
I am glad to hear you spent your high school years sweeping up in a resistor factory. (I reserve the right to tilt what has been written as much as you do.)
You are aware that my method requires ten resistors of the same type and performance. So it is not a case of one bad resistor. It is an example of a low quality product produced for the lowest cost market.
What was more interesting is the difference between identical specification and price resistor brands.
Yes one does "choose tests appropriate for the claim involved." So why do you insist on double blind tests when you can't control all of the important parameters?
ES
Please do.
Save us a lot of time and hot air.
Show the experiment that proves
.
Thanks.
If someone says that two different resistor brands which both measure fine show audible differences- and CLEAR audible differences- or makes sweeping claims about systematic audibility of materials, it should be easy to demonstrate that with ears only, absent clear measurable evidence. Exactly in the same way I've done ears-only tests of phase, op-amp daisy chaining, data compression... You either hear it or you don't, it's not complicated. Trust your ears.
I have no doubt that someone might be able to hear your pathological resistor if it were in a feedback network. Or an EQ network. Let's keep that as a separate issue where we agree.
It´s not "ears only" in the sense that a DBT relies on a listener to experience
a change in sound conscious, has to remember it an will report that later.
Only a small fraction of what we see or hear reaches the neocortex.
If you take a walk on the New York Times Square you certainly will not
remember all the people you have seen in the last hour. This does not
"proof" you have not seen them.
That´s a different story. And the higher the order of harmonics the less they
will be masked.
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