It's just that the Audio Note tantalums are magnetic, and the Shinkoh tantalums, which Hiroyasu Kondo used in his amps, and the reason ANuk sought a new supplier when Shinkoh ceased, are not. And the "slightly" magnetic tantalums, as peter qvortrup claims, are not slightly but very much drawn to a magnent. I just tried it. Shinkoh resistors, not at all.
Joseph0 said:
I'm not sure if it's Audio Note, but I tried A-N Tantalums from Partsconnexion. In some ways they were nice sounding, but I couldn't use them in my circuits. The midrange was overpowering, there was not enough air; I'm not sure about resolution, the bass seemed to be pretty good.
Hi,
The Tantalum resistors AN-UK used to import from Japan weren't magnetic when they first started importing them about 15 years ago.
Around that time just about everyone involved in high-end audio manufacturing agreed that magnetic components mucked up the sound.
Of course, now that big tall Peter Q can't get his paws on the non-magnetic ones, a little magnetism (is there such a thing?) isn't all that bad I suppose....
Seriously, with all the money they made over all these years they still can't tell the manufacturer to run some batches with copper or silver lead-outs??
Heck, with a little luck he'd then be able to add yet another Ferrari to his collection, right?
That sums it up nicely.
Cheers, 😉
The Tantalum resistors AN-UK used to import from Japan weren't magnetic when they first started importing them about 15 years ago.
Around that time just about everyone involved in high-end audio manufacturing agreed that magnetic components mucked up the sound.
Of course, now that big tall Peter Q can't get his paws on the non-magnetic ones, a little magnetism (is there such a thing?) isn't all that bad I suppose....
Seriously, with all the money they made over all these years they still can't tell the manufacturer to run some batches with copper or silver lead-outs??
Heck, with a little luck he'd then be able to add yet another Ferrari to his collection, right?
That sums it up nicely.
Cheers, 😉
Takman Electronics make an audio grade(?) resistor US pat 6317024 but I think its only used in house, “The Sound Purifier" P-202E
STAX have a resistor patent US4999602
Nobody seems to stock the Riken RXG audio metal film resistors http://www.rikendengu.co.jp/doc/audio.pdf] riken audio pdf[/url] I wonder why?
Hope this is of some interest
Regards
James
STAX have a resistor patent US4999602
Nobody seems to stock the Riken RXG audio metal film resistors http://www.rikendengu.co.jp/doc/audio.pdf] riken audio pdf[/url] I wonder why?
Hope this is of some interest
Regards
James
according to the pcX tantalum page, peter qvortrup explains:
"The Audio Note™ Tantalum film resistor is made from a pure tantalum oxide.
However, to allow their use in high voltage applications, we have chosen to
use nickel-plated end caps, wherefore both the 1 and the 2 watt resistor’s
max overload voltage is 1,500 volts, with a working voltage of 1,200 volts.
The price for this is that they are slight magnetic, as I said at the beginning."
as though he were the one to decide this. 😛
"The Audio Note™ Tantalum film resistor is made from a pure tantalum oxide.
However, to allow their use in high voltage applications, we have chosen to
use nickel-plated end caps, wherefore both the 1 and the 2 watt resistor’s
max overload voltage is 1,500 volts, with a working voltage of 1,200 volts.
The price for this is that they are slight magnetic, as I said at the beginning."
as though he were the one to decide this. 😛
PhopsonNY asked:
"Has anyone heard or done anything with the Vishay Z201s yet?
I got a few samples but was not able to do any testing as they are presently permanently in place.
I would be interested in anyone's thoughts on these"
I'm also interested in hearing anyone's experience with these. Apparently Mike Elliot of Alta Vista Audio (former designer with counterpoint had this to say about the Vishay Z201:
( from http://www.ariaaudio.com/WV.htm )
You've heard of Vishay resistors? You know that their bulk metal foil technology resistors are the very best. Did you know that when an audio manufacturers claims to use Vishay resistors, they might just be using penny resistors, and not the renowned bulk-foil ones? It's true -- Vishay is a huge company which has purchased dozens and dozens of other companies, such as Dale, Sprague, etc. ( the full list is here). Any resistor from any of those subsidiary companies is correctly a "Vishay" resistor, but there is only only company which makes the bulk- foil resistors that made the Vishay brand famous in audio circles: Texas Components, who are franchised by Vishay to complete the manufacturing process on resistors using Vishay bulk metal foil resistive elements purchased from Vishay .
Their S102 is the original bulk-foil resistor (you can buy these fine resistors from Michael Percy Audio). Without encapsulation, this resistor is the even better-sounding TX2352 -- the renowned "naked" Vishay (as used in the WV XLs). But unless an audio company is using resistors made from Vishay's C, K, or Z foils, they're using ordinary resistors from companies which have been purchased by Vishay. In short, they're buying cheap resistors and selling you BS.
Better than the "naked Vishay" TX2352 is the Z201 bulk foil resistor, also made by Texas Components with top-secret foil provided by the parent company, Vishay. These cost four times more than TX2352 resistors, but they are more than 10 times better (electrically). According to Texas Components, the "Z" foil is intended for applications requiring extraordinarily low temperature coefficient, a common requirement in measuring instrumentation. More important to us audio guys is the fact that they sound fantastic. While the TX2352 is sonically head and shoulders above all the other ordinary resistors, the Z201s are substantially -- not marginally -- better than that. They are more coherent, more natural, completely uncolored, fast, dynamic, and neutral. I wish I could use them in all my products, but they are simply too costly. But I would not be serving my customers if I didn't make them aware that these parts exist, and make them available as stand-alone upgrades.
"Has anyone heard or done anything with the Vishay Z201s yet?
I got a few samples but was not able to do any testing as they are presently permanently in place.
I would be interested in anyone's thoughts on these"
I'm also interested in hearing anyone's experience with these. Apparently Mike Elliot of Alta Vista Audio (former designer with counterpoint had this to say about the Vishay Z201:
( from http://www.ariaaudio.com/WV.htm )
You've heard of Vishay resistors? You know that their bulk metal foil technology resistors are the very best. Did you know that when an audio manufacturers claims to use Vishay resistors, they might just be using penny resistors, and not the renowned bulk-foil ones? It's true -- Vishay is a huge company which has purchased dozens and dozens of other companies, such as Dale, Sprague, etc. ( the full list is here). Any resistor from any of those subsidiary companies is correctly a "Vishay" resistor, but there is only only company which makes the bulk- foil resistors that made the Vishay brand famous in audio circles: Texas Components, who are franchised by Vishay to complete the manufacturing process on resistors using Vishay bulk metal foil resistive elements purchased from Vishay .
Their S102 is the original bulk-foil resistor (you can buy these fine resistors from Michael Percy Audio). Without encapsulation, this resistor is the even better-sounding TX2352 -- the renowned "naked" Vishay (as used in the WV XLs). But unless an audio company is using resistors made from Vishay's C, K, or Z foils, they're using ordinary resistors from companies which have been purchased by Vishay. In short, they're buying cheap resistors and selling you BS.
Better than the "naked Vishay" TX2352 is the Z201 bulk foil resistor, also made by Texas Components with top-secret foil provided by the parent company, Vishay. These cost four times more than TX2352 resistors, but they are more than 10 times better (electrically). According to Texas Components, the "Z" foil is intended for applications requiring extraordinarily low temperature coefficient, a common requirement in measuring instrumentation. More important to us audio guys is the fact that they sound fantastic. While the TX2352 is sonically head and shoulders above all the other ordinary resistors, the Z201s are substantially -- not marginally -- better than that. They are more coherent, more natural, completely uncolored, fast, dynamic, and neutral. I wish I could use them in all my products, but they are simply too costly. But I would not be serving my customers if I didn't make them aware that these parts exist, and make them available as stand-alone upgrades.
The Vishay bulk foils are about the only documented technology I know of with a very tight tempco and very low voltage coefficient--better than just about anything out there. Possibly the tantalum film types are extremely good too, but there's no data on them.
Alas, they're all expensive and I can't afford to use them very much, especially the Z-foils. I did find and buy a few samples of a 33.333k Vishay Z-foil just to torture them, and they DO show excellent temperature stability when spritzed with freeze-spray--far better than run of the mill metal film caps, which are available in a fairly wide range of tempcos.
In general, I'd be buying low-tempco metal films for critical listening; 25 ppm is better than the typical 100 ppm--Z foils are 2 ppm or better. I can't say they sound any different from any other resistor, but if we're into perfectionism then bulk foil technology is a compelling choice.
Michael Percy sells a 'cheap' Vishay bulk foil (VSH) that appear to be dipped 'naked' resistor elements and resembles a ceramic bypass cap. Not quite as good as the S102c's, but a fraction of the cost. I don't know if I still have the spec sheets for them, and Vishay doesn't list the type any more--only Michael Percy seems to have stock. I'd consider them a good compromise and easy to purchase.
For my money, Vishay bulk foil resistors are the best, and best documented technology resistors out there. That's my objective opinion; your's may differ. Use 'em if you can afford them, and if the resulting sound is to your preference.
Alas, they're all expensive and I can't afford to use them very much, especially the Z-foils. I did find and buy a few samples of a 33.333k Vishay Z-foil just to torture them, and they DO show excellent temperature stability when spritzed with freeze-spray--far better than run of the mill metal film caps, which are available in a fairly wide range of tempcos.
In general, I'd be buying low-tempco metal films for critical listening; 25 ppm is better than the typical 100 ppm--Z foils are 2 ppm or better. I can't say they sound any different from any other resistor, but if we're into perfectionism then bulk foil technology is a compelling choice.
Michael Percy sells a 'cheap' Vishay bulk foil (VSH) that appear to be dipped 'naked' resistor elements and resembles a ceramic bypass cap. Not quite as good as the S102c's, but a fraction of the cost. I don't know if I still have the spec sheets for them, and Vishay doesn't list the type any more--only Michael Percy seems to have stock. I'd consider them a good compromise and easy to purchase.
For my money, Vishay bulk foil resistors are the best, and best documented technology resistors out there. That's my objective opinion; your's may differ. Use 'em if you can afford them, and if the resulting sound is to your preference.
Foil
Hi guys.
Actually, Vishay is on the verge of introducing a Z-foil version of the naked chip resistor. It will be called the VAR (Vishay Audio Resistor)
I am currently finalizing the datasheet for it and we should have it out sometime this month.
If you guys need any advice or help on the Foil resistors, feel free to contact me.
Hi guys.
Actually, Vishay is on the verge of introducing a Z-foil version of the naked chip resistor. It will be called the VAR (Vishay Audio Resistor)
I am currently finalizing the datasheet for it and we should have it out sometime this month.
If you guys need any advice or help on the Foil resistors, feel free to contact me.
VAR
Ok. We just released the datasheet. It should appear on the website within a few days. In the meantime I have attached the datasheet to this thread.
VAR Datasheet
Ok. We just released the datasheet. It should appear on the website within a few days. In the meantime I have attached the datasheet to this thread.
VAR Datasheet
Re: VAR
some audiophiles are going to want to know more about the lead-wire construction - copper, copper alloy or ferromagnetic?
copper over steel will loose you some audiophile points
FoilEngineer said:
some audiophiles are going to want to know more about the lead-wire construction - copper, copper alloy or ferromagnetic?
copper over steel will loose you some audiophile points
This is the first i'm hearing of steel terminations. Why would someone want to use terminations made of steel?
The VAR is solder plated copper (either tin/lead or 100% tin plated).
The VAR is solder plated copper (either tin/lead or 100% tin plated).
as far as I know nearly all standard cylindrical body axial leaded film resistors use Cu plated steel endcaps to maintain clamping pressure since the endcaps are simply pushed/pressed onto the alumina body during assy
and many R, L and C components use steel cored Cu plated leadwires for strength in high speed processing
If you really want to traget a extreme audiophile market you should probably metiontion that leadwire contruction is nomagnetic in the datasheet
search for "Holco" here for discussion/complaints about their changing construction
and many R, L and C components use steel cored Cu plated leadwires for strength in high speed processing
If you really want to traget a extreme audiophile market you should probably metiontion that leadwire contruction is nomagnetic in the datasheet
search for "Holco" here for discussion/complaints about their changing construction
Well, foil resistors are inherently non-capacitive and non-inductive due to their design.
They are also non-magnetic and are even used in MRI systems by a number of large medical companies (with which I have personally been involved), which are very strict with the magnetism of the parts used.
The foil resistors I would recommend for audio use are all radial molded resistors and do not include any steel.
As mentioned in my previous post, all the leads are CU with either Sn or 60%Pb / 40%Sn plating.
They are also non-magnetic and are even used in MRI systems by a number of large medical companies (with which I have personally been involved), which are very strict with the magnetism of the parts used.
The foil resistors I would recommend for audio use are all radial molded resistors and do not include any steel.
As mentioned in my previous post, all the leads are CU with either Sn or 60%Pb / 40%Sn plating.
Re: VAR
Shalom (Yuval?),
good news you bring about the VAR!
When will they be available for purschasing and samples?
Regards,
Sigurd Ruschkowski
Shalom (Yuval?),
good news you bring about the VAR!
When will they be available for purschasing and samples?
Regards,
Sigurd Ruschkowski
FoilEngineer said:
No this is not Yuval. My name is Roy. Actually I work with Yuval though.
In any case, The VAR is currently available for purchasing. If you have any problems getting them let me know and I'll see what I can do to help.
In any case, The VAR is currently available for purchasing. If you have any problems getting them let me know and I'll see what I can do to help.
Regarding audible difference between resistors.
Have anyone being able to reliably pick out different standard good quality resistors in a blind listening test?
Have anyone been able to show measurable differences in such case that could explain these audible differences?
Since standard metalfilms (of good quality) typically are linear way up in the MHz range and have distortion low enough that it can't easily be measured at all, I wonder if there's really any meaning using expensive bulk foils for audio apps.
/Peter
Have anyone being able to reliably pick out different standard good quality resistors in a blind listening test?
Have anyone been able to show measurable differences in such case that could explain these audible differences?
Since standard metalfilms (of good quality) typically are linear way up in the MHz range and have distortion low enough that it can't easily be measured at all, I wonder if there's really any meaning using expensive bulk foils for audio apps.
/Peter
Peter,
many are those who have asked the question "is it worth it?". Some find that it is worth it. Some do not. It is all about personal values.
Some buy a Porsche, some buy a Scoda. Some use a biclycle, and some even find that these machines are not worth the money and walk instead.
Some buy expensive watches, some buy diamonds rings, some buy steel rings. Is it worth it?
Some like nice red wines, some like beer, some do not find that it is worth the money, and drink water.
Some like the sound from a cheap MP3 player, some prefer highe nd audio quality sound, and some do not care to listen to music as it is not worth the money.
etc
etc
etc
I find that the nude TX2352 sounds the way I like it. Cost is not always of concern.
In the 80s people used the metal film resistors and later found out that they were the reason for harsh treble.
Give them a try and let us know what you think.
Sigurd
many are those who have asked the question "is it worth it?". Some find that it is worth it. Some do not. It is all about personal values.
Some buy a Porsche, some buy a Scoda. Some use a biclycle, and some even find that these machines are not worth the money and walk instead.
Some buy expensive watches, some buy diamonds rings, some buy steel rings. Is it worth it?
Some like nice red wines, some like beer, some do not find that it is worth the money, and drink water.
Some like the sound from a cheap MP3 player, some prefer highe nd audio quality sound, and some do not care to listen to music as it is not worth the money.
etc
etc
etc
I find that the nude TX2352 sounds the way I like it. Cost is not always of concern.
In the 80s people used the metal film resistors and later found out that they were the reason for harsh treble.
Give them a try and let us know what you think.
Sigurd
Roy/Yuval
What is going to be the medium/low count price of these resistors? Do You have some long-term stability data?
Stijena
What is going to be the medium/low count price of these resistors? Do You have some long-term stability data?
Stijena
Some time ago I asked Texas Components by email for a price list of their products. Their reply was that there was no such thing. Does any of you know what price to expect for TX2352 and TX2575 resistors? It’s a bit strange to order resistors without having any idea of the costs involved.
Peter
Peter
- Status
- Not open for further replies.