AJ
At the time I was not as interested in dynamics as I am today - actually I wasn't thinking about those aspects at all when we did that test. I would do the test completely differently now.
I made it a point to hear Orions since they get such rave reviews. I'd match any of my speakers against them - blind test of course (maybe not the Harper, but thats not in the same price and size range as the Orions).
At the time I was not as interested in dynamics as I am today - actually I wasn't thinking about those aspects at all when we did that test. I would do the test completely differently now.
I made it a point to hear Orions since they get such rave reviews. I'd match any of my speakers against them - blind test of course (maybe not the Harper, but thats not in the same price and size range as the Orions).
I'm pretty much the opposite. Stay up till all hours then when the alarm rings I am still half asleep - for another hour at least. But I'm lucky to ket 7 hours of sleep a day. Its typically six.
I should explain that you also need something not boring to look at. Probably couldn't hurt if the visual has some perspective to make the depth cue range in terms of distance wide open. But also abstract visuals should work. Of course I like music in the dark or with my eyes closed as well.
These are great.
Really Slick Screensavers
If you just want to experiment with it you don't have to drill holes in your wall. You can use a floor standing speaker from the garage - you know you have one - or a stack of books as a stand with minimum early reflections.
I think it is a good question. Or to at least take some competent speakers in terms of there polar response and see how the psychoacoustic effects differ.
If the question is about music that we have now I think there probably isn't a real answer for most recordings. The mixing engineers tend to average the mix over a variety of references. Typically starts with bookshelf speakers mounted above a mixing board with a ton of early reflections. But gets referenced in cars, some engineers will mix with "full range" TV speakers, heaphones, and in mono. The mix can get adjusted into what I think might be the cause of homogenized imaging - sounds clinging to the speakers because they are actually panned directly to that location because of simplistic approaches like LCR.
Wishful thinking! They (mixing and mastering engineers) tend to talk about "how the mix translates" but when you ask one of them how this is done, then you get the answer "well, I checked it on the big speakers and in my car". The truth is: they mix for the loudspeakers they have, within the room those speakers reside. The same is true for mastering engineers. Never heard of a mastering engineer that is talking about how directivity influences timbre and how he copes with that.
Best, Markus
Well I believe that there is an optimum and I think that my opinion on this topic is well known. I am writting a white paper on explaining directivity and what the measurements mean now and I'll be posting it in a couple of weeks.
lol. I guess but you also have to consider some of this stuff is considered trade secrets. There are some references I feel would work better and some that should be avoided. But yeah you are probably right it's more that the studios will use the mains and a car for a reference and the home studio will use headphones and nearfields. But really when mixes are referenced in Bi-naural, mono, and stereo what is that mix exactly optimized for?
Cool. I am just an amateur but been messing around with mixing since I was a wee lad. Hmm was it you that was talking about mixing for dts?
So the levels that the listeners were comfortable with did not give your speakers any advantage, so you would increase it next time?
Ok 🙂.
The latest version with the rear tweeter and monopole sub <50hz ?
Where, under what room conditions?
Fine idea. In a randomly selected "typical" listener living room setting?
cheers,
AJ
Anyway I forget if that was you and it's probably buried in the cable thread or something. I guess my point about tricks of the trade is that engineers get asked a lot of questions about how to mix. A lot of the time these questions are expected to be answered free of charge but if I was a pro - and even now as an amateur - this really should be considered a professional consultation. Basically if I have a reference which helps me get what I think is a better mix or more consistent results and my job is to mix better than the next engineer, I don't think I would be offering up that information free of charge.
Problem is, there is no reference. There's only a moving target you're shooting at. See Toole's "circle of confusion". As long as there's no standards those "trade secrets" are nothing more than a temporary fashion.
Best, Markus
Best, Markus
Exactly. But I do think some people might be using better references than others and may have their own personal standards etched out. Some might actually be empirically correct in a sense and not even know it - they just do it intuitively. Linkwitz has drawn his own circle of confusion out as well.
I have thought this through a bunch of different ways my self actually. I am not one to just take another engineers advice and run with it. I try to understand things like signal flow and all the variables that can happen.
I have thought this through a bunch of different ways my self actually. I am not one to just take another engineers advice and run with it. I try to understand things like signal flow and all the variables that can happen.
I can't wait to read what you've got to write Dr. Geddes. So far what seems intuitive to me is that as long as your directivity is collapsing uniformly w/o any major off axis ripples, dips, or bumps, you room response should be darn good and thus timbre should be good in most reasonable seating locations. Under a few hundred Hz, things get more complicated. It would be cool to see more in depth study/summation.
Dan
Dan
I don't think that this is true because the refelctions and the reverberatnt field will not have the same tembre as the direct field. Your ear will know this.
Hope you add some nice polar pictures and basic explanations to your white paper. A lot of people don't know how to read an isobar diagramm.
This is basically the whole point - but pretty picture take a lot of time to make.
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