Replacement for SEAS Chassis with XP and Polypropylene Cones

[tiefbassuebertr]

Some excellent SEAS transducers, that I prefer for service and replacement at old Chartwell and other british loudspeakers, are out of production and no longer available.

Here are an overview about this types:

1) H 352 (H0352, WP171, P17RCY), go to
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0352_p17rcy.pdf
2) H 435 (H0435, WP171NP, special made for IT electronic, not to find by seas website)
3) H 452 (H0452, M14NP, special made for IT electronic, not to find by seas website)
4) H 434 (H0434 W140NP, special made for IT electronic, not to find by seas website)
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/images/w140np.jpg
5) H 393 (H0393 P14RCY) go to
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0393_p14rcy.pdf and
http://shiroiharu.blog.eonet.jp/photos/uncategorized/2009/04/23/dsc_00091172000.jpg
6) H395 (H0395 P14RC) go to
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0395_p14rc.pdf
7) H702 (H0702, H0822, T14RCY, XP cone, for IT electr: H696 MT14) go to
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0702_t14rcyp-h.pdf

Please note, that I am not a good friend of phase plugs so as aluminium-, titan- an magnesium diaphragms. I prefer only materials like paper (also coated), polypropylene, kevlar and carbon.

Perhaps there are additional drivers on the marked with similar character.

For service and maintenance especially the models H0452 and H0434 I have often use as replacement for also no longer available Harbeth transducer's in older british hifi boxes e. g. like Chartwell, Harbeth (LF-5) and Rogers - see
http://www.zenn.com.sg/Chartwell_PM110.JPG and
http://shackman-electrostatic-loudspeakers.reromanus.net/Harbeth-ML-BBC-Monitor-12.JPG

What type of currently available ones likely I could use as a replacement?

Best thanks for your comments.
Any news?
In the moment of most interest is the SEAS WP140 (XP cone) for repair Chartwell's PM110.

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

I still want to know replacements therefore

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

Here some additional informations:
To 1) H 352 (H0352, WP171, P17RCY), datasheet about
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vi...352_p17rcy.pdf
used in a wide range of models, e. g. in Wilson Audio's "CUB"
Wilson Audio CUB Reviews
???????? McIntosh/JBL/audio-technica/Jeff Rowland/Accuphase/?/?¾?????

To 4) H 434 (H0434 W140NP, special made for IT electronic, not to find by seas website)
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/images/w140np.jpg
used in intertechnik monitor model No "MS2" (MS-II") MK1 (MK-I)
Strassacker: Lautsprecher - Boxen - Selbstbau

To 5) H 393 (H0393 P14RCY) go to
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0393_p14rcy.pdf
???????? McIntosh/JBL/audio-technica/Jeff Rowland/Accuphase/?/?¾?????
used in various Harbeth models
Quote about
Stereophile: CES 2009 Show Report
"The SEAS tweeter is unchanged, but the woofer had to be changed, due to SEAS discontinuing the original's driver"
This means SEAS H393 inside in model "HL-P3" and no SEAS inside in "HL-P3-R"
more URLs:
New Harbeth P3ESR
?????????????????
Show report: Munich High End 2009 pt7 - AVReview News and comment
?? ??? - ??? HL-P3 ??? ?????~
and perhaps in a diy successor of LS3/5A
The BBC LS3/5a's oddball crossover: bass from "nowhere" - Techtalk at Parts-Express.com

To 7) H702 (H0702, H0822, T14RCY, XP cone, for IT electr: H696 MT14) go to
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0702_t14rcyp-h.pdf
inside in ProAc
ProAc Response 1SC | AUDIOCONCEPT
and ProAc Clones
The ProAc Response 1S Clone
http://www.tubeamparts.com/docs/1sc.19111223.jpg
PROAC 1SC

I still want to know replacement transducers from currently production

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

Continue Pictures for H 393 (H0393 P14RCY)

5) Continue Pictures for H 393 (H0393 P14RCY)

 

[DV-65]

Great Job! Thank You

 

[lduarte1973]

Hi tief , may i ask why you dont like metal cones ?

 

[s3tup]

Check out the Vifa P13W, these are quite nice sounding for polypropylene cones.

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

Hi tief , may i ask why you dont like metal cones ?

have a look to the pic at post #3 about
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/210299-morel-mdt30-still-viable.html
For rock music such ring ring effect doesn't matter (more crispy sound), but not to accept by classic and acoustical jazz (e. g. vocal jazz - hissing sounds are annoying).
Check out also the CSD (Cumulative Spectral Decay) at both kinds of tweeters - i. e. soft dome and titan/metal dome, and you will see what happens in the aera of ring ring effect (try at least three devices from the same model - only at very few metal domes there are the unwanted ring ring effect very small).
Additional I don't like beryllium domes.

From the audible view also ceramic domes I hate, although they have excellent measuring values.
Why is that, unfortunately I don't know.

 

[lduarte1973]

what do you think of ribbons like the founteks or do you prefer the BG neo pdr3 ?

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

what do you think of ribbons like the founteks or do you prefer the BG neo pdr3 ?

The ribbons from
Fountek Transducer Technology
I have never heard.
Also not the speakers from BG about
BG Radia - In-Room Speakers
and about
BOHLENDER-GRAEBENER | SPEAKER
But I have heard from others, that the ribbons from the last brand should be have a very good sonic quality.

My favorite HF loudspeakers (tweeters) are follow:
1) Ribbon SA8535
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/152359-stage-accompany-end-not.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/164153-amt-ess-1-vs-stage-accompany-sa8535-sa-8535-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ns-rb401-sa8535-ess-amt-beymas-tpl-150-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ed-high-frequency-loudspeakers-where-buy.html
2) Dome Tweeter Glockenklang based on RCF's TW116 - go to post #26 about
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/155885-99db-dome-tweeter-without-titan-without-horn.html
3) Dome Tweeter Audax HD13D34H (now TW034X0)
http://www.audax-speaker.de/index.php?module=shop_articles&index[shop_articles][action]=overview&index[shop_articles][category==15
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/TW034.htm
4) BMSpro 4538 (made in Germany)
http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_4538
http://elimex.hu/upload/files/b-bms4538-p1.pdf
with horn 2193
http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_2193

Dependend of the acoustical environmental conditions sometimes the horn is the best choice (in rooms with large reverberation) sometimes the dome tweeter (mostly in small rooms with nearfield condition by listening) and sometimes the ribbon (medium and large rooms at larger distance above 4 m).

BTW - all soft dome tweeters without ferrofluid from the good known brands like Vifa, Seas (NoFerro series), Scan-Speak, Hiquphon and Visaton are useful for typical home HiFi applications (low-level use) in small rooms.

I am still looking to a replacement from this speaker:
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0702_t14rcyp-h.pdf
and the models from Harbeth with similar polypropylene cone material. Except from Tangband I don't find similar models.]%[/category]

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

Some excellent SEAS transducers, that I prefer for service and replacement at old Chartwell and other british loudspeakers, are out of production and no longer available.

Here are an overview about this types:

1) H 352 (H0352, WP171, P17RCY), go to
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0352_p17rcy.pdf
2) H 435 (H0435, WP171NP, special made for IT electronic, not to find by seas website)
3) H 452 (H0452, M14NP, special made for IT electronic, not to find by seas website)
4) H 434 (H0434 W140NP, special made for IT electronic, not to find by seas website)
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/images/w140np.jpg
5) H 393 (H0393 P14RCY) go to
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0393_p14rcy.pdf and
http://shiroiharu.blog.eonet.jp/photos/uncategorized/2009/04/23/dsc_00091172000.jpg
6) H395 (H0395 P14RC) go to
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0395_p14rc.pdf
7) H702 (H0702, H0822, T14RCY, XP cone, for IT electr: H696 MT14) go to
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0702_t14rcyp-h.pdf

Please note, that I am not a good friend of phase plugs so as aluminium-, titan- an magnesium diaphragms. I prefer only materials like paper (also coated), polypropylene, kevlar and carbon.

Perhaps there are additional drivers on the marked with similar character.

For service and maintenance especially the models H0452 and H0434 I have often use as replacement for also no longer available Harbeth transducer's in older british hifi boxes e. g. like Chartwell, Harbeth (LF-5) and Rogers - see
http://www.zenn.com.sg/Chartwell_PM110.JPG and
http://shackman-electrostatic-loudspeakers.reromanus.net/Harbeth-ML-BBC-Monitor-12.JPG

What type of currently available ones likely I could use as a replacement?

Best thanks for your comments.

Any news?
In the moment of most interest is the SEAS WP140 (intertechnik, XP cone) for repair Chartwell's PM110.
the seas genuine type is follow:
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0702_t14rcyp-h.pdf
this pdf I have found here:
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option...fers&catid=25:seas-vintage-drivers&Itemid=426

 

[PeteMcK]

Tiefbassuebertr, are you looking for physical or electrical equivalents, or do you want a drop in replacement? Electrically, I would have thought that there's plenty of choice in the current 15Cm SEAS range, although that may require some xover tweaking. Physically may be more difficult with the shape of that t14 surround. What's the usual failure mode of these drivers, is re-coning not an option? cheers,

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

Tiefbassuebertr, are you looking for physical or electrical equivalents, or do you want a drop in replacement? Electrically, I would have thought that there's plenty of choice in the current 15Cm SEAS range, although that may require some xover tweaking. Physically may be more difficult with the shape of that t14 surround. What's the usual failure mode of these drivers, is re-coning not an option? cheers,

I am looking for electrical equivalents - most importing thing is getting similar Sound Charakter. I don't like phase-plugs, thus follow chassis would be the right choice:
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0822_t14rcy.pdf
reconing isn't posible due no longer available recone kits. But the re-wound of the voice coil is possible, but too expensive cause a lot of additional work steps therefore, which are necessary.

 

[tiefbassuebertr]

what means the abbrevation "XP" ?
Which other terms exist additional in colloquial english for this transparent polypropylene cones ?
Is this a very special kind of polypropylene?
Which manufacturers uses still this material for diaphragms except Tangband?

Unfortunately, I am unable to get the same sound with replacement speakers, which have the normal (black) polypropylene cones, despite identical frequency response (create by tuning/adjusting of the present crossover network)

 

[system7]

I think SEAS use XP to say polypropylene bass.

T14RCY-P

Looks a hard driver,that. Needs a 1 kHz notch.

Looking at the Chartwell PM110, which I have heard, as it goes.

It's a Rogers/swisstone clear polypropylene 5". Heavy cast chassis.

Probably cardboard not metal former, hence high Qms around 4 I'd guess.

Chartwell have used Rogers/BBC type 4th order filters here by the look of them. Good news is they haven't needed a notch. So I think the Monacor MONACOR INTERNATIONAL : SPH-135/AD is worth a try.

KEF and Dalesford drivers were pressed steel chassis and quite distinctive to look at. Black coated bextrene.