I have three pairs of Wharfedale Program 30D-6 speakers as my main speakers and something to experiment with. They use a 20mm tweeter which looks like it has a plastic dome, also used in Diamond 1 and 2. I think it was an Audax model. X-over is stated as 2.3K.
I thought I'd "improve" the tweeter, OD 78mm, by using the well reviewed SB26STCN which is the same compact size. Result was different but not better. The highs were smoother and less stressed, but quite a bit of detail was lost, specially apparent in orchestral music in e.g. the woodwinds where the individual timbres were somewhat blurred. I don't have measuring equipment, but the frequency response sounded similar except that the highs were maybe more rolled off.
I don't know whether to attribute the extra detail to a plastic dome or a smaller diameter dome or a mixture of both. I'm game to try another pair of tweeters but I'd like to keep the extra detail. So what I don't know is whether to look for a more rigid cone material like plastic as in Kef T27 for instance, or aluminium as in SB26ADC. Or whether to try out another fabric dome like a SB21SDCN or SB21RDCN and hope the smaller dome will bring back the details, bearing in mind the 2.3K X-over.
I can invert the speaker box so the mid-bass is on top and mount the tweeter on top of the box, in which case overall faceplate diameter doesn't matter. I could build a better enclosure as well if I like the result. Pic of speakers here...
What do you guys suggest as a replacement tweeter to try, with an accent on good detail?
And can you offer any opinions on why exactly the soft dome SB26STCN was "softer" and less detailed?
I thought I'd "improve" the tweeter, OD 78mm, by using the well reviewed SB26STCN which is the same compact size. Result was different but not better. The highs were smoother and less stressed, but quite a bit of detail was lost, specially apparent in orchestral music in e.g. the woodwinds where the individual timbres were somewhat blurred. I don't have measuring equipment, but the frequency response sounded similar except that the highs were maybe more rolled off.
I don't know whether to attribute the extra detail to a plastic dome or a smaller diameter dome or a mixture of both. I'm game to try another pair of tweeters but I'd like to keep the extra detail. So what I don't know is whether to look for a more rigid cone material like plastic as in Kef T27 for instance, or aluminium as in SB26ADC. Or whether to try out another fabric dome like a SB21SDCN or SB21RDCN and hope the smaller dome will bring back the details, bearing in mind the 2.3K X-over.
I can invert the speaker box so the mid-bass is on top and mount the tweeter on top of the box, in which case overall faceplate diameter doesn't matter. I could build a better enclosure as well if I like the result. Pic of speakers here...
What do you guys suggest as a replacement tweeter to try, with an accent on good detail?
And can you offer any opinions on why exactly the soft dome SB26STCN was "softer" and less detailed?
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The Wharfedale Programme 30D-6 is an installation speaker intended for use in commercial premises, e.g., for distributing the music from a pub juke box.
Even so, I would not underestimate its tweeter, which is also used in the Wharfedale Valdus 100 that looks to be the domestic equivalent of the installation speaker.
The Programme 30D-6 tweeter is described as a 25 mm aluminised mylar dome. Are yours labelled Wharfedale Model 0316B or perhaps 0316H?
They are not exactly identical to the Audax 19 mm plastic dome tweeters used in the Wharfedale Diamond 1.
Even so, I would not underestimate its tweeter, which is also used in the Wharfedale Valdus 100 that looks to be the domestic equivalent of the installation speaker.
The Programme 30D-6 tweeter is described as a 25 mm aluminised mylar dome. Are yours labelled Wharfedale Model 0316B or perhaps 0316H?
They are not exactly identical to the Audax 19 mm plastic dome tweeters used in the Wharfedale Diamond 1.
Yes - an installation speaker but surprisingly good sounding. The BBC used them in their offices. Mine are the 0316H. Yes, the tweeter is detailed, but not so smooth. I'd like both.
In terms of harder domes, what would you expect from SB26ADC or SB26CDC ceramic? I'd imagine plenty of detail?
In terms of harder domes, what would you expect from SB26ADC or SB26CDC ceramic? I'd imagine plenty of detail?
I did take out the fuse when I tried the SB26. I tried replacing the non-polar electrolytic with polypropylene but it was less detailed, not so good. I tried replacing the white ceramic resistor with a good wirewound but again, the original was better. Not what I expected, but there we are.
Do you know the SB21SDCN? How detailed is that?
Do you know the SB21SDCN? How detailed is that?
The SB Acoustics SB26STCN has a nominal impedance of 4 ohm and a DC resistance of 3.2 ohm.
https://willys-hifi.com/products/sb-acoustics-sb26stcn-c000-4-tweeter?variant=40658270060718
I've seen the Wharfedale 0316H quoted as having a nominal impedance of 8 ohm and a DC resistance of 6.3 ohm.
In consequence, substituting the SB Acoustic for the Wharfedale without redesigning the crossover will alter the sound balance of the speaker.
https://willys-hifi.com/products/sb-acoustics-sb26stcn-c000-4-tweeter?variant=40658270060718
I've seen the Wharfedale 0316H quoted as having a nominal impedance of 8 ohm and a DC resistance of 6.3 ohm.
In consequence, substituting the SB Acoustic for the Wharfedale without redesigning the crossover will alter the sound balance of the speaker.
Try a non-ferrofluid tweeter. Recently I've been using & liking the detail & immediacy of a pair of Peerless NE25VTS-04
You'll need to change the values of the tweeter crossover components for any tweeter change
You'll need to change the values of the tweeter crossover components for any tweeter change
yep but some time can be too much ,I dont like SS D2008 but lowed D2010 and a problem for xo....
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try a simple 6db filter to see if is good , as Galu tell you need new xo as in 4ohm
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For info the air core on the HF is 300uH.
Edit....mind you the XO I have here from a 30D has a 4r7
Edit....mind you the XO I have here from a 30D has a 4r7
A 2.2 uF capacitor and 0.3 mH air core inductor indicates a crossover frequency of 6,000 Hz when used with an 8 ohm tweeter (the Wharfedale 0316H).
To achieve the same crossover frequency with a 4 ohm tweeter (the SB Acoustics SB26STCN) would require a 4.4 uF capacitor and a 0.15 mH inductor.
To achieve the same crossover frequency with a 4 ohm tweeter (the SB Acoustics SB26STCN) would require a 4.4 uF capacitor and a 0.15 mH inductor.
Adding a 3.3 ohm resistor would fix that issue and you'll drop 4 to 5 dB in output, which will put you at 88 - 89 dB/2.83V = with DCR of 6.6 ohms. You'll need to pad that 3 or so dB further to get close to the midrange efficiency.
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I was also just about to suggest looking at Hiquphon 19mm tweeters. Specs. are excellent.
https://www.hiquphon.dk/page1.html
https://www.hiquphon.dk/page1.html
Hiquphon is very expensive, so not for me. I'm coming round to the idea of leaving the Wharfedales as they are for now and building a new pair of speakers. If it turns out that the new tweeter improves the Wharfedales then I could go back to them.
The cabinets I have suit a 150mm 6" mid-bass, so this is pointing me at SB15MFC in existing crossover designs with an SB tweeter. Maybe the SB17MFC is a better unit - it's certainly popular with builders. That would require a new cabinet but that's not impossible.
Hey Galu and jimk04 - how do you know so much about the Program 30D-6? I was really surprised at the data you had. I believe the tweeter was made by Audax - was it? And what is the mid-bass exactly? Is it a known unit? It's the same size as a B110, but a smaller magnet.
The cabinets I have suit a 150mm 6" mid-bass, so this is pointing me at SB15MFC in existing crossover designs with an SB tweeter. Maybe the SB17MFC is a better unit - it's certainly popular with builders. That would require a new cabinet but that's not impossible.
Hey Galu and jimk04 - how do you know so much about the Program 30D-6? I was really surprised at the data you had. I believe the tweeter was made by Audax - was it? And what is the mid-bass exactly? Is it a known unit? It's the same size as a B110, but a smaller magnet.