Hello gents,
I'm going through a mild resurgence in desire for music, however the type of music I desire hasn't changed. I realize that most of the speakers built on these forums are for hearing every last bit of music at every range. Well, i can appreciate that and have speakers that can do that fairly well. I own a pair of Large Advents, Paradigm Monitor 7s and some klipsh bookshelf speakers. They all sound good in their own way but I like to feel music.
I have a few amplifiers that I play around with, some old some new. An old school Kenwood 8100 is what is in my living room, and that is where I envision putting the speakers I'm building. It's 75w per channel. I also have a Rotel 1065 that only plays in stereo mode and it puts out 120w a channel. It has blown one of the tweeters on my Monitor 7s...ugh.
My living room is large, 12x20 with 10 foot ceilings, the record player and amplifier currently sit in a corner, which is probably some of my issue not being able to get the bass i want.
I have a full wood shop and have expreience building speakers, i've attached a subwoofer I recently built for my car. I even have a CNC machine.
What I'm imagining is either a single 15" driver 3 way, or dual 10 inch drivers. I'd like to keep the drivers under $100 per speaker(everything is negotiable). I've looked at Pauls design of these Classix 2.5 - undefinition and they look great, however I feel that their output will be a little more than my Monitor 7s. So i'm still searching.
I'm really interested in doing my own crossover. i have a lot expreience soldering from other hobbies, but have never done a crossover. I don't really have an appetite for learning crossover design, I just have too many hobbies to take another on. That is how I ended up here!
So to sub it all up:
Loud
Deep bass
Somewhat on a budget (giving up SQ)
I don't mind complex cabinets
120w per channel
I really need help choosing drivers and a crossover to fit them
I'm going through a mild resurgence in desire for music, however the type of music I desire hasn't changed. I realize that most of the speakers built on these forums are for hearing every last bit of music at every range. Well, i can appreciate that and have speakers that can do that fairly well. I own a pair of Large Advents, Paradigm Monitor 7s and some klipsh bookshelf speakers. They all sound good in their own way but I like to feel music.
I have a few amplifiers that I play around with, some old some new. An old school Kenwood 8100 is what is in my living room, and that is where I envision putting the speakers I'm building. It's 75w per channel. I also have a Rotel 1065 that only plays in stereo mode and it puts out 120w a channel. It has blown one of the tweeters on my Monitor 7s...ugh.
My living room is large, 12x20 with 10 foot ceilings, the record player and amplifier currently sit in a corner, which is probably some of my issue not being able to get the bass i want.
I have a full wood shop and have expreience building speakers, i've attached a subwoofer I recently built for my car. I even have a CNC machine.
What I'm imagining is either a single 15" driver 3 way, or dual 10 inch drivers. I'd like to keep the drivers under $100 per speaker(everything is negotiable). I've looked at Pauls design of these Classix 2.5 - undefinition and they look great, however I feel that their output will be a little more than my Monitor 7s. So i'm still searching.
I'm really interested in doing my own crossover. i have a lot expreience soldering from other hobbies, but have never done a crossover. I don't really have an appetite for learning crossover design, I just have too many hobbies to take another on. That is how I ended up here!
So to sub it all up:
Loud
Deep bass
Somewhat on a budget (giving up SQ)
I don't mind complex cabinets
120w per channel
I really need help choosing drivers and a crossover to fit them
Attachments
Last edited:
When I think of reggae, I think of huge drivers in even huger cabinets.
And they have to go LOUD!
Horn loading for bass, mid and treble is the way to go.
Attachments
Here's some really BIG ideas!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjL8-Xy07PdAhWBKsAKHcKeAu0QFjAAegQIABAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozvalveamps.org%2Fcabinets%2Ffane-loudspeaker-book-pages-34-41.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1pXa4GCdGqD74dPXFEZ2dR
P.S. I'm not really being serious for use in a domestic situation, but maybe it provides some food for thought? The LS design experts will soon chip in, I'm sure.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjL8-Xy07PdAhWBKsAKHcKeAu0QFjAAegQIABAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozvalveamps.org%2Fcabinets%2Ffane-loudspeaker-book-pages-34-41.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1pXa4GCdGqD74dPXFEZ2dR
P.S. I'm not really being serious for use in a domestic situation, but maybe it provides some food for thought? The LS design experts will soon chip in, I'm sure.
I dunno, if shopping at parts express maybe have a look at the new LaVoce FSF020.50 2" Ferrite Full-Range, 4 of these in a mini array + a single Dayton PA380-8 per channel?
Need maybe 150 liters internal volume, filters can be done active, amps are cheaper than passive xo parts these days.
Need maybe 150 liters internal volume, filters can be done active, amps are cheaper than passive xo parts these days.
Galu: +1!
If you are more into reggae than hip hop why try reinvent the wheel? Go see a dub soundsytem and talk with the soundman. You are lucky because your room should accept this kind of speakers (your on the lowish side but should be ok).
Not sure if i'll be ok for hip hop though.
If you are more into reggae than hip hop why try reinvent the wheel? Go see a dub soundsytem and talk with the soundman. You are lucky because your room should accept this kind of speakers (your on the lowish side but should be ok).
Not sure if i'll be ok for hip hop though.
Sounds like an interesting project! I'm curious, have you considered just building a subwoofer or two and pairing with an existing set of speakers? You would be able to get more bang (or boom in this case) for your buck.
I would find a couple pair of old Cerwin Vega speakers. Two pair should work if your receiver has two sets of speaker outs. You should be able to do that for $200 using Craigslist for the old speakers.
Galu, Krivium.
Great idea, you guys can figure out how to get drivers suited for horn loading for 100$ per channel.
There is a 18" cast frame buyout woofer at PE that is cheap and suited, but then most of the budget is spent, and you need something for mid and tweet.
Great idea, you guys can figure out how to get drivers suited for horn loading for 100$ per channel.
There is a 18" cast frame buyout woofer at PE that is cheap and suited, but then most of the budget is spent, and you need something for mid and tweet.
I cut my teeth on a Fane 12" driver in a 5.0 cubic foot reflex cabinet, tuned to 40Hz. I could feel the bass vibrating my chest!
Don't know where you're based, but here's the 2018 Fane Catalogue for some soothing bedtime reading!
Take a look at the Sovereign 15-300 TC for example.
https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/FaneCatalogue2018-040518-Web.pdf
Don't know where you're based, but here's the 2018 Fane Catalogue for some soothing bedtime reading!
Take a look at the Sovereign 15-300 TC for example.
https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/FaneCatalogue2018-040518-Web.pdf
Last edited:
You got a point there! May have to stick to reflex loading but, then again, bgymr says "I don't mind complex cabinets", and the price "is negotiable".
Gents, thank you for the quick answers. I really like active forums.
Galu and krivium, I love the look of those, however I don't live alone. And the other half of the decision making probably doesn't want the concert look permanent in the living room. It would be hard for me to make those look attractive. I went to the google page and I will dive deeper into the theory of those to see if something could apply.
Kaffiman, this is exactly the type of speaker and advice I'm looking for. I just built a pair of speakers with the full range dayton RS100-8. I'm impressed with their build quality and they sound really good without anything in between them and the amp. I've read that there are "notches" i can install, but i'm enjoying them as is right now. I'm quickly looked up those speakers you suggested for the higher frequency and they show that they can only handle 10w each...am I missing something? Could I pair that woofer you suggest with a dayton RS100-8? Is there a crossover that would make sense?
ILikeFoodz I have considered doing a sub. I had the one in teh picture hooked up for a while and that is where this thread originated. However to drive a sub from an old amp/receiver you have to install other gear. I'd like to avoid that. Although in general, I like building things that are loud, and I'm sure I will build a sub somewhere down the road.
Badge, nice suggestion. I had a pair of CV AT8s, I reformed and capped them, and they just didn't dig deep enough to what is left of my ears haha. Nice speakers. I sold them to someone that probably got similar advice to the one you just offered. He did text me after buying them and he was thrilled. I attached a picture of that setup.
Just to be clear, I'd like to make two 3way or 2way speakers. I really like the advice that Kaffiman started with.
Again, thanks guys!
Galu and krivium, I love the look of those, however I don't live alone. And the other half of the decision making probably doesn't want the concert look permanent in the living room. It would be hard for me to make those look attractive. I went to the google page and I will dive deeper into the theory of those to see if something could apply.
Kaffiman, this is exactly the type of speaker and advice I'm looking for. I just built a pair of speakers with the full range dayton RS100-8. I'm impressed with their build quality and they sound really good without anything in between them and the amp. I've read that there are "notches" i can install, but i'm enjoying them as is right now. I'm quickly looked up those speakers you suggested for the higher frequency and they show that they can only handle 10w each...am I missing something? Could I pair that woofer you suggest with a dayton RS100-8? Is there a crossover that would make sense?
ILikeFoodz I have considered doing a sub. I had the one in teh picture hooked up for a while and that is where this thread originated. However to drive a sub from an old amp/receiver you have to install other gear. I'd like to avoid that. Although in general, I like building things that are loud, and I'm sure I will build a sub somewhere down the road.
Badge, nice suggestion. I had a pair of CV AT8s, I reformed and capped them, and they just didn't dig deep enough to what is left of my ears haha. Nice speakers. I sold them to someone that probably got similar advice to the one you just offered. He did text me after buying them and he was thrilled. I attached a picture of that setup.
Just to be clear, I'd like to make two 3way or 2way speakers. I really like the advice that Kaffiman started with.
Again, thanks guys!
Attachments
I would guess "negotiable" is absolute max 140-150$ per channel.
The Fane 15-300TC is well suited for this purpose, and the right price. Will need some serious work, but maybe we could cook up a proper BLH for it, would be huge though.
The Fane 15-300TC is well suited for this purpose, and the right price. Will need some serious work, but maybe we could cook up a proper BLH for it, would be huge though.
How did that happen? I posted before you bgymr, somehow your post is higher up? Did the time stamps change somehow?
Anyway, the power rating of those 2" units is fine, in series/parallel connection the load gets distributed equally. If you want to use some other units that is fine, was just trying to reach your budget and retain some degree of quality. I can probably run a sim for you tomorrow, want to have flat response with just under 40hz roll off, or deeper response with slow roll off
Anyway, the power rating of those 2" units is fine, in series/parallel connection the load gets distributed equally. If you want to use some other units that is fine, was just trying to reach your budget and retain some degree of quality. I can probably run a sim for you tomorrow, want to have flat response with just under 40hz roll off, or deeper response with slow roll off
Thank you for your comprehensive acknowledgements - doesn't always happen on the forum!
Glad you've been pointed in the required direction by KaffiMann.
Will follow the progress of the thread with interest.
you missed out on a nice sale of P-Audio 15" coaxial speakers at $99.95 each last year. You could probably find a decent 15 inch woofer and use a $30 compression driver on a "K-tube" tweeter to set on top of the Karlson box.
here's new Eminence 15" for $40 sans shipping - fwiw you could ask Tony at Eminence for their parameters
Eminence 350 Watt 8 Ohm 15 Inch PA Woofer Speaker 151963 USA | eBay
I would try to keep moving mass under 75 grams and qts under around 0.4 if possible in that budget - tha tsaid, I've used an old EV SP15B fullrange with very high qts and it was a lot of fun with things like Nick Cave's "Murder Ballads" album - but stronger motor helps on the attack
The original Karlson cabinet doesn't go "deep" but does deliver power you can feel with very little cone excursion. Moving mass should be reasonably low and qts low enough not to excessively peak around cutoff.
Karlson K15 details from the January 1954 issue of Radio and Television News
you can brace the "wings" with 3/4" dowel struts from the front shelf edge to the inside of the wings. Likewise, the back needs bracing and could use two vertical 1.5" plywood strips on edge and a center dowel to the shelf rear edge.
HERE'S THE BASIC PLAN
http://i.imgur.com/oRygnBt.png
a suitable K-tube about the size of the defunct Transylvania Power Co. product can be made from a 5.5 inch or so length of plastic pipe. A paper pattern is printed to form an ellipse with major axis ~11.5 inches and minor axis pi* pipe diameter (minus an 1/8" for a starting gap). Wrap the paper template around the pipe, trace, then cut and finish.
the tube can sit on top and typically tilt upwards the same angle as the speaker baffle (~30 degrees in the case of K15
a paper K-tube can be used as proof of concept and one friend prefers that to plastic. K-builder Carl Neuser has laminated K-tubes from wood veneer.
here's new Eminence 15" for $40 sans shipping - fwiw you could ask Tony at Eminence for their parameters
Eminence 350 Watt 8 Ohm 15 Inch PA Woofer Speaker 151963 USA | eBay
I would try to keep moving mass under 75 grams and qts under around 0.4 if possible in that budget - tha tsaid, I've used an old EV SP15B fullrange with very high qts and it was a lot of fun with things like Nick Cave's "Murder Ballads" album - but stronger motor helps on the attack
The original Karlson cabinet doesn't go "deep" but does deliver power you can feel with very little cone excursion. Moving mass should be reasonably low and qts low enough not to excessively peak around cutoff.
Karlson K15 details from the January 1954 issue of Radio and Television News
you can brace the "wings" with 3/4" dowel struts from the front shelf edge to the inside of the wings. Likewise, the back needs bracing and could use two vertical 1.5" plywood strips on edge and a center dowel to the shelf rear edge.
HERE'S THE BASIC PLAN
http://i.imgur.com/oRygnBt.png
a suitable K-tube about the size of the defunct Transylvania Power Co. product can be made from a 5.5 inch or so length of plastic pipe. A paper pattern is printed to form an ellipse with major axis ~11.5 inches and minor axis pi* pipe diameter (minus an 1/8" for a starting gap). Wrap the paper template around the pipe, trace, then cut and finish.
the tube can sit on top and typically tilt upwards the same angle as the speaker baffle (~30 degrees in the case of K15
a paper K-tube can be used as proof of concept and one friend prefers that to plastic. K-builder Carl Neuser has laminated K-tubes from wood veneer.
Last edited:
Well, if you are really into it, this is the cabinet loved by Reggae Bass players.
If you want to reproduce their thunderous lows, no questions asked, you might build your own:
They have this Cerwin Vega inside:
of course, this covers just the woofer side, feel free to add your favourite mids and highs.
And I bet it must be quite competent to reproduce Hip Hop Bass tracks too 🙂
If you want to reproduce their thunderous lows, no questions asked, you might build your own:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
They have this Cerwin Vega inside:
of course, this covers just the woofer side, feel free to add your favourite mids and highs.
And I bet it must be quite competent to reproduce Hip Hop Bass tracks too 🙂
here's one of my vintage K15 cabinets on the right - the little one with 10" speaker on the left is punchy and has a K-tube tweeter. Although I have over a ton of horns, none is favored over the old K.
bgymr:
Here's a sim for the PE buyout B-52 SP-1804 18" Cast Frame woofers, they are 75$ each. If the boss gives a slight nod or "maybe" on ~163 liters for bass: Get them ASAP! They should be much better than the Dayton PA380's
How much cash do you imagine spending for the rest of the drivers?
Your beloved RS100-8 is a bit low on sensitivity compared to the subs, but if it helps, just spend the money on some reasonably priced DSP unit for xo and SPL matching until you get the cash to upgrade to something else.
The box I simmed is (internal dimensions only!) 50cm wide x 45-46cm deep (pending on how you intend to brace it), 66cm tall and there is a 6cm tall slot port (with a 18mm "divider" in the middle for bracing) on top or bottom pending on personal preference. 15mm material is OK, but you need to plan bracing well (not excessive, but exact!), 18mm material is better, still need to plan some bracing.
Here's a sim for the PE buyout B-52 SP-1804 18" Cast Frame woofers, they are 75$ each. If the boss gives a slight nod or "maybe" on ~163 liters for bass: Get them ASAP! They should be much better than the Dayton PA380's
How much cash do you imagine spending for the rest of the drivers?
Your beloved RS100-8 is a bit low on sensitivity compared to the subs, but if it helps, just spend the money on some reasonably priced DSP unit for xo and SPL matching until you get the cash to upgrade to something else.
The box I simmed is (internal dimensions only!) 50cm wide x 45-46cm deep (pending on how you intend to brace it), 66cm tall and there is a 6cm tall slot port (with a 18mm "divider" in the middle for bracing) on top or bottom pending on personal preference. 15mm material is OK, but you need to plan bracing well (not excessive, but exact!), 18mm material is better, still need to plan some bracing.
Attachments
here's the dimensions for the Cetec-Gauss Karlson cabinet (an 18 will run in an 8 cubic foot bulk Karlson type pretty well)
the link to the Cetec-Gauss 5181 K18's dimensions isn't showing
a short W horn like the Acoustic won't go very low - but still
would be a fun build. I had one once for bass guitar.
Karlson actually had an 18" speaker model
my first 18" Karlson box was this 32" x 21" x 20" cabinet, originally for a 15". The shock wave from it can be felt across a room
a short W horn like the Acoustic won't go very low - but still
would be a fun build. I had one once for bass guitar.
Karlson actually had an 18" speaker model
my first 18" Karlson box was this 32" x 21" x 20" cabinet, originally for a 15". The shock wave from it can be felt across a room
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.