Hi there,
I have been into my vinyl now for a long time, but have been cheapening the experience with a "hand me down" set up. Currently i have a CDC ST530 Turntable, a Sherwood S2620 CP amp and a set of Wharfedale Linton 3 speakers. It's literally a mongrel set up of generous hand me downs & opportunist gathering.
I've decided its time for my ears to start listening like a man, and start upgrading the system to something i can be proud of.
Money unfortunately is an issue, so i am looking at rebuilding piece by piece, with a turntable first on that list.
Budget would sit around the $500 mark, give or take. I have done a little research and read some healthy reviews of the Rega Plancar series.
From what i can see a Rega RP1 can usually be purchased new for around $550 and seems to be a front runner for the affordable, yet classy turntable range.
Can anyone vouch for this? I have also seen a RP 2 & a RP 3 go for a similar price, but 2nd hand ( older models ). Can anyone educate me to the best move i can make from here? Am i better of going new with the RP1? or better off spending my money on the 2 or 3 series second hand. Does anyone else have any similar buget suggestions i could also consider, or even what amps usually go well with these things
Any advice would be great - i want to make sure i make the right decision. I am in Brisbane and if anyone knows a store that offer great prices with with great loyal service, that would be great - as i am looking for a store i can trust and help me build this affordable dream machine.
Help me become an audible man this Christmas
I have been into my vinyl now for a long time, but have been cheapening the experience with a "hand me down" set up. Currently i have a CDC ST530 Turntable, a Sherwood S2620 CP amp and a set of Wharfedale Linton 3 speakers. It's literally a mongrel set up of generous hand me downs & opportunist gathering.
I've decided its time for my ears to start listening like a man, and start upgrading the system to something i can be proud of.
Money unfortunately is an issue, so i am looking at rebuilding piece by piece, with a turntable first on that list.
Budget would sit around the $500 mark, give or take. I have done a little research and read some healthy reviews of the Rega Plancar series.
From what i can see a Rega RP1 can usually be purchased new for around $550 and seems to be a front runner for the affordable, yet classy turntable range.
Can anyone vouch for this? I have also seen a RP 2 & a RP 3 go for a similar price, but 2nd hand ( older models ). Can anyone educate me to the best move i can make from here? Am i better of going new with the RP1? or better off spending my money on the 2 or 3 series second hand. Does anyone else have any similar buget suggestions i could also consider, or even what amps usually go well with these things
Any advice would be great - i want to make sure i make the right decision. I am in Brisbane and if anyone knows a store that offer great prices with with great loyal service, that would be great - as i am looking for a store i can trust and help me build this affordable dream machine.
Help me become an audible man this Christmas
A secondhand Planar 3 or P3 will always be better than an RP1. Better platter, better arm, the P3 has a better motor mount.
Get a decent table then get an awesome cartridge.
Get a decent table then get an awesome cartridge.
Thanks for the advice.
So if i were able to get a 2nd hand Rega Planar 3 with a Moving Magnet Garrott P-77 cartridge and standard Rega arm for the same price , this would definitely be better than a brand new RP1?
What should i expect to be the improvement on the 3 between the two? is it just better sound and warmth, and is the improvement worth the risk of not purchasing a new one with a guarantee?
Plan on getting on quite soon so want to make sure i make the right call. In that price range, there is no other alternatives worth looking at as well? Or is the Rega a very good safe choice?
Thanks again for the advice, is great to be able to have people in the new who can guide me with this - much appreciated!
So if i were able to get a 2nd hand Rega Planar 3 with a Moving Magnet Garrott P-77 cartridge and standard Rega arm for the same price , this would definitely be better than a brand new RP1?
What should i expect to be the improvement on the 3 between the two? is it just better sound and warmth, and is the improvement worth the risk of not purchasing a new one with a guarantee?
Plan on getting on quite soon so want to make sure i make the right call. In that price range, there is no other alternatives worth looking at as well? Or is the Rega a very good safe choice?
Thanks again for the advice, is great to be able to have people in the new who can guide me with this - much appreciated!
I would think a P3 in good running order would be very low risk, and should provide more detail, better control in the bass, and a bunch of other more subtle improvements of a subjective nature.
Parts are probably available should they ever be needed.
All my tables are used. (Well they haven't been made in 44yrs, so.. 😀 several TD-124)
Hard to imagine much more bang for the buck at this price point unless you are willing to put in a fair amount of work restoring a Thorens or Lenco..
Both www.vinylengine.com and www.lencoheaven.net might be good resources to check out. You will need to join, and I recommend both highly.
Parts are probably available should they ever be needed.
All my tables are used. (Well they haven't been made in 44yrs, so.. 😀 several TD-124)
Hard to imagine much more bang for the buck at this price point unless you are willing to put in a fair amount of work restoring a Thorens or Lenco..
Both www.vinylengine.com and www.lencoheaven.net might be good resources to check out. You will need to join, and I recommend both highly.
Thanks again for the advice, pretty sure i am going to go for the 3.
Just to play devils advocate though, does anyone know much about the Project Debut III's?
I've also read a few promising reviews on those and price wise they look similar. The one bonus on these seems to be a cleaner finish with a open variety of colors as well. This has obvious appeal as i having a machine that looks as sexy as it sounds, but if the sound difference's are in different leages to each other - i'm going to go with the better sound.
I have to admit, its a hard thing to get used to though picking a 2nd hand option over a brand new - old habits die hard.
The RP3 comes with a Moving Magnet Garrott P-77 cartridge. Are these any good or not? which Cartridge would be recommended for this machine?
Sorry to be repeatitive - very new to turntables and want to make sure im 100% comfortable with my choice. Once i get it i plan to have it a real long time so want to make sure i have no regrets🙂
Just to play devils advocate though, does anyone know much about the Project Debut III's?
I've also read a few promising reviews on those and price wise they look similar. The one bonus on these seems to be a cleaner finish with a open variety of colors as well. This has obvious appeal as i having a machine that looks as sexy as it sounds, but if the sound difference's are in different leages to each other - i'm going to go with the better sound.
I have to admit, its a hard thing to get used to though picking a 2nd hand option over a brand new - old habits die hard.
The RP3 comes with a Moving Magnet Garrott P-77 cartridge. Are these any good or not? which Cartridge would be recommended for this machine?
Sorry to be repeatitive - very new to turntables and want to make sure im 100% comfortable with my choice. Once i get it i plan to have it a real long time so want to make sure i have no regrets🙂
i just came across this review for the project debut III and it seemed to rate it quite favorably against the RP3, even with the standard Ortofon cartridge installed
....And that red finish is so damned sexy, it's SURE to make it all sound just a little better 😛
Thoughts? I'm planning on getting one by Christmas - so i need as much help as possible!
....And that red finish is so damned sexy, it's SURE to make it all sound just a little better 😛
Thoughts? I'm planning on getting one by Christmas - so i need as much help as possible!
Rega Planar3 vs...?
RaoulJuke:
The Rega Planar 3 had been made for something in the neighbourhood of 25 years without any major upgrades. That says something about how good it was in it's last incarnation. The newest tables, referred to as RP3 (I think) has a few upgrades, but is not available at anywhere near $500 (unless a new blem or open box one could be found). The Garrott Bros. P77 is an excellent sounding cartridge. Depending on what arm is on the table, buying it is a no-brainer (if a Rega RB250 or RB300 , but not perhaps the RB200 which is a heavier "S" arm type.)
There are many future "upgrades" that you could consider when funds become available. Better pulleys, dual frequency motor controllers, upgrade plinths, tonearm re-wire, improved platter and sub-platter, improved bearing, etc are available. So although they appear to be simple, they can be modified to get a lot higher performance out of them. None of the upgrades are particularly expensive though except perhaps new subplatter and new platter. Most of these upgrades can be done by someone with 2 left thumbs (like me🙂 ).
Regarding the red finish, that can easily be accomplished on a Rega. Remove everything from the plinth (motor, arm, wiring, main bearing , sub-platter and platter) and sand down the existing finishon the Rega. Use a good primer and spray it whatever shade you like (Personally I've always been partial to the Lime green Rega used on some of its tables). If not comfortable spraying the plinth (with a spray can), go to an automotive body shop or furniture refinisher.
Kevin:ever notice we often end up in the same threads?
RaoulJuke:
The Rega Planar 3 had been made for something in the neighbourhood of 25 years without any major upgrades. That says something about how good it was in it's last incarnation. The newest tables, referred to as RP3 (I think) has a few upgrades, but is not available at anywhere near $500 (unless a new blem or open box one could be found). The Garrott Bros. P77 is an excellent sounding cartridge. Depending on what arm is on the table, buying it is a no-brainer (if a Rega RB250 or RB300 , but not perhaps the RB200 which is a heavier "S" arm type.)
There are many future "upgrades" that you could consider when funds become available. Better pulleys, dual frequency motor controllers, upgrade plinths, tonearm re-wire, improved platter and sub-platter, improved bearing, etc are available. So although they appear to be simple, they can be modified to get a lot higher performance out of them. None of the upgrades are particularly expensive though except perhaps new subplatter and new platter. Most of these upgrades can be done by someone with 2 left thumbs (like me🙂 ).
Regarding the red finish, that can easily be accomplished on a Rega. Remove everything from the plinth (motor, arm, wiring, main bearing , sub-platter and platter) and sand down the existing finishon the Rega. Use a good primer and spray it whatever shade you like (Personally I've always been partial to the Lime green Rega used on some of its tables). If not comfortable spraying the plinth (with a spray can), go to an automotive body shop or furniture refinisher.
Kevin:ever notice we often end up in the same threads?
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Pretty cool I'd say.. Must have something in common.. If you are ever in this neck of the woods look me up, I suspect we would have a good time. 😀
The Debut has an inferior platter (cast metal instead of glass) and a notably inferior arm (because the arm is really what makes the Rega so darn good...) than a P3.
I would choose a used Planar 3 over a RP1 without hesitation. Again, for the exact reasons why the Planar is better than the Debut -- Platter and arm... The RP1 doesn't have a glass platter, and has a different arm.
I would choose a used Planar 3 over a RP1 without hesitation. Again, for the exact reasons why the Planar is better than the Debut -- Platter and arm... The RP1 doesn't have a glass platter, and has a different arm.
what a great website / community here i you guys know how to make a noob feel welcome
The Planar 3 i am looking at only comes with the RB200 arm - could this be a pivitol difference in making the decision.
The actual Planar i am watching is this one
REGA PLANAR 3 Turntable | eBay
The issue is i guess is if i got the above one, it sounds like the arm may need to be upgraded, i would need to get it painted ( as the red has charmed the pants off me now ), and i also have to get a friend to send it to me as i am in Brisbane and this item is in Victoria (Australia). So there is always a risk the item may be damaged between a) & b)
having to weigh that up against walking into a store here in Brizzy, purchasing either the debut III or the P1, it being under warranty, having someone instore i can go back to and ask for professional advice in regards to troubleshooting, it being definitely A1 & ready to go in set up and preffered look - this has a genuine appeal to a noob.
I am really unsure why, but i am starting to lean towards getting the debut III with the speedbox add on - but i am switching sides every 5 minutes. I mostly listen to 60's Pop rock pschyadelic, soul, funk (Parliament) & 90's & modern rock/alternative. Not sure if this would make any difference to the decision.
I know this is hard to take but perhaps you should wait until just the right turntable crosses your path. 😀
Don't do it! A recent used P3 will eat it, and you don't have to upgrade it to get decent sound. It will make the Debut sound like a joke, speedbox or no speedbox.
jeff
The Debut is not a bad table, but it is not special either.. I have to agree with Jeff about the P3, hence my recommendation to wait for the right table to come along. A little wait now for a much better experience down the road, and I doubt the wait would be long. If you are concerned about shipping considering picking it up if it is within about a 300km radius of where you live. (It's what I had to do to get my Thorens TD-124, and I've no regrets about that decision.)
The P3 can't really be considered recent, its purchase date was approximately 1980 and the buyer has little history on it. All that is definitely known is that it is a Planar 3 with a RB200 arm and Moving Magnet Garrott P-77 cartridge.
I guess the hard thing is i keep getting different advice from everywhere - trying to learn too much to quickly.
another friend told me that unless i purchase an amp & speakers of a certain quality ( approximately $4000 each or more ), any difference in the quality of the vinyl will be so subtle that it would be hardly recognizable. Don;t know if this is really true or not though. If the Planar was in the same state as me and i could go out and have a physical look and listen to it, that would make a massive difference - i think its that unknown factor which worries me, whereas the P1 & Debut III are coming fresh out of thebox, have strong reviews & as i don't expect to spend much more than $1k - $1.5k each for the speakers & amp - i am wondering if any difference in teh quiality of turntable will make much difference?
It's starting to stress me out!
I would suggest never listening to this guy again. He is most certainly talking out of his backside. Small changes in turntable and (most especially) cartridge are very, very noticeable. Cartridges are transducers, changing physical movement into electrical impulses (somewhat like a backwards loudspeaker) and therefore different carts sound different, as one speaker can sound different from another.
A question for you -- how many records do you have?
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Go to store and if they have the tables set up listen to each and choose. If the sound difference is negligible to you , buy the red one. Keep table in pristine condition and I'm sure they will allow you a trade up when you outgrow it or upgrade bug will hit you. They should also perform a proper cartridge set up and offer an advice for placement and table support. Yes, you "loose " 50% this way in comparison to used market purchase but education always cost something. This way by spending some money with dealer you gain his services and a chance to audition gear, educate youself in your likes/dislikes ,get some bargains and free advice. I have such a friendly dealer. I buy little things from him. He knows I dislike most of what he fancies and can't afford anything serious in his store. I help him move boxes and sometimes repair his costumers tube gear and try not to take advantage of his friendship, but nonetheless I played with variety of equipment over the years. best of luck & regards
I have around 300 to 350 records - about a 50 / 50 new to used ration.
To be fair to the guy who gave me the advice mentioned above, he never implied anything about the quality differential between the carts. He only implied that the difference of sound i would hear between the Debut III & the P3 with the RB200 arm would be so miniscule, the only way i would hear it or get substantial improvement was if i purchased a amp or speakers that were a large grade up from the entry level. When he said it made some sort of sense to me as the theory reminds me of many other technical products One such isa USB 2 adapter harddrive. In theory which should provide faster speed, but unless the actual computer or product's technology also has a certain level of USB complicity - the improvement is non existent.
I hate to say it, but i think i am still going to go with the Debut III. To me it seems like the safest option considering my lack of experience. Review wise, the Debut III hasn't got a bad one on the internet and seems to be marveled for its bang to buck. It seems like a nice, safe option with minimal set up issues, and is ready to go straight out of the box with cart and all.
The Planar 3 and the Rega's, seems to have many fans who are very brand loyal due to it being a successful brand for a long period of time - which is an obvious sign of quality. But i have read quite a couple of reviews which have found the Planar 3 to be a much better system, but only once being modified. From the sounds of it the RB200 are installed is probably the weakest in the Planar series and is not compliant with the Rega produced speciality cart's that seem to caputre the best results from this machine. Also another issue is that the Rega tone arms that came out after the 200 were made with a different sized cart in mind, so that makes the 200 a difficult size to find go matching carts for. The much hearlded Ortofon 2M RED, from my research, would not fit into the RB200.
So i think that the Rega would probably require a arm upgrade to a 250 or 300 to get its full potential. In saying this though, the speed and tempo of the music seems to be its strong point, with everything else being competent.
Another downside to this player is visually, it is not as attractive or well finished - particulary the one in the auction i am watching.
The Debut III seems to be very reliable and easy to set up. It comes with a perfectly suited and Ortofon OM-5E cart and has an array of easy to find alternatives which can be tested or used to provide a sound better suited to a certain preference. They seems to not be as consistent or lively with the speed and tempo issue, but once fitted with the Speedbox upgrade - this issue becomes much less of an issue.
Both sound easy to upgrade later if i require tweaking. Both seem to hold value in Australia very well. The finish on the Debut III is much more attractive - not only does it SOUND like a great machine, it also LOOKS like it. As much as this should not play a key part in picking an item based on sound quality - it definitely plays an emotional role in the overall enjoyment of the product.
If i get the P3, everytime i look at its slightly dull black finish, am i going to regret not seeing the ferrari red, shinny Debut III? Or am i more likely to be regreting the reserve decision everytime i hear them play? I kinda know either one will totally blow me away once played compared to the shitty set up ( i still quite enjoy ) i have at the moment. I have never heard a high quality vinyl player before except in a vinyl store - so the improved quality of either will seem like a light year of improvement.
The fact that the retail store where i can get the Debut III has told me they will set the machine up for me so it is perfect for use - while i would be on my own with the P3 - all plays a good part. If i am getting some nasty humming or vibration out of the Debut III i can call someone and ask for help, or need be take it back to the store. Witht eh P3, i am on my own with forums, and i am totally incapable of checking parts or etc. Perhaps i don't have the confidence in experience and knowledge for a used turntable yet, who knows....
I feel a bit bad a foolish for ignoring so many professional advices on this, as most here seem to be wanting me to go the P3 - but the fact i would need to rely on it being packed for postage very well from a home user seller, & i am not unaware of any possible faults it may have that would be getting in the way with the sound quality - it just seems the safer more complete option to go with the Debut III. Does this sound crayz?
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No ,it doesn't sound crazy at all. It's very subjective hobby and the only person you need to satisfy is YOU. If red ferrari color will make you a better more susceptible listener, go for it and don't listen to anybody. Be advised that to further advance into the vinyl adventure you will have to learn to setup and customise your table yourself. Thats the part of High fidelity game if you want to be an active participant.
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