Sorry Chris only just seen your comment, yes I agree too much work involved with chiselling maple. Might consider using MDF yet, is it really worth it though. I'd expect the diffraction to be better.
Like a lot of the slow curing 2 part epoxy glues, Cascamite it great for many applications, but does need vacuum bagging or cold pressing to ensure conformation of thinner materials to substrate, which I imagine would be a royal pain in the a$$ for post veneering of even a rectilinear box.
I suspect that Richie is referring to a process of pre-veneering panels for CNC V-grooving / folded mitre construction?
And just how much water resistance do we need in adhesives for construction of speaker boxes?
I suspect that Richie is referring to a process of pre-veneering panels for CNC V-grooving / folded mitre construction?
And just how much water resistance do we need in adhesives for construction of speaker boxes?
Thanks for the info Chris,
I see a lot of fuss about water resistance glues for loudspeakers, I think it maybe piece of mind or for cleaning purposes yet if anyone's speaker cabs become in contact with water/liquids, it would be dried straight away anyway. I don't think its important myself.
I see a lot of fuss about water resistance glues for loudspeakers, I think it maybe piece of mind or for cleaning purposes yet if anyone's speaker cabs become in contact with water/liquids, it would be dried straight away anyway. I don't think its important myself.
yeah, it'll take more than just an incidental spill of water on the finished surface to do sufficient damage to enclosure's structural integrity - in which circumstances there are probably larger worries to contend with
these aren't wooden boats we're talking about
these aren't wooden boats we're talking about
I think he was veneering finished speakers.
I agree that speakers don't need any weatherproof glue, not sure anybody could justify needing weatherproof glue on domestic speaker boxes! There are other far more important characteristics of the glue for our application.
I agree that speakers don't need any weatherproof glue, not sure anybody could justify needing weatherproof glue on domestic speaker boxes! There are other far more important characteristics of the glue for our application.
so I assume then that cold pressing with platens was involved - which certainly works fine for flat surfaces - vacuum bagging an assembled box could be "interesting"
You can get around that by using a spray shellac over the silicone before painting. Think of it as a primer for 'silicone disease'.
shellac as primer ?
I did not know it would be possible to paint on shellac
is it real spirit dissolved shellac ?
but when you say 'spray' I immediately think of cellulose
I did not know it would be possible to paint on shellac
is it real spirit dissolved shellac ?
but when you say 'spray' I immediately think of cellulose
I think Richie's Cascamite suggestion is great for this application, yet I think Chris uses Titebond 1 and will also be great too but I've never done it and appreciate everyone's comments on your experiences.
Right, seems like the vacuum bags are a no no for already constructed cabinets and come to think of it I have only seen one panel at a time being vacuum bagged although I've not really looked into thin veneering too much, especially on curved cabs. I chose a easier design for my first build but my friend is more confident and optimistic about the finish. The cabs are solid though much better curves than most and much more solid than a lot of B&W's and KEF's etc.
Thanks Cal, I have read that using shellac as a sealer will get a even adhesion to anything thats bonded to it (good for end grains etc), yet been advised on another thread on here thats not the case, I go with the latter usually but your point seams to me a good idea when painting not veneering. Off topic Cal but been meaning to ask you for a while...I seen on one of your old threads you used to use MDF/Cement board for cabinet walls yet now use BB, I like the idea of 18mm BB/6mm Cement board for my subwoofer project and would appreciate your thoughts.
Tinitus I believe you can paint on spirit dissolved shellac but the mix of spirit is increased, not sure by how much.
Right, seems like the vacuum bags are a no no for already constructed cabinets and come to think of it I have only seen one panel at a time being vacuum bagged although I've not really looked into thin veneering too much, especially on curved cabs. I chose a easier design for my first build but my friend is more confident and optimistic about the finish. The cabs are solid though much better curves than most and much more solid than a lot of B&W's and KEF's etc.
Thanks Cal, I have read that using shellac as a sealer will get a even adhesion to anything thats bonded to it (good for end grains etc), yet been advised on another thread on here thats not the case, I go with the latter usually but your point seams to me a good idea when painting not veneering. Off topic Cal but been meaning to ask you for a while...I seen on one of your old threads you used to use MDF/Cement board for cabinet walls yet now use BB, I like the idea of 18mm BB/6mm Cement board for my subwoofer project and would appreciate your thoughts.
Tinitus I believe you can paint on spirit dissolved shellac but the mix of spirit is increased, not sure by how much.
Hi Stewart,
Cement boards for lining the walls is a lot easier than pouring it in place but I'm not sure it's necessary if you brace your cabinet. If you are going to use cement board I'd venture a guess that BB is overkill.
Cement boards for lining the walls is a lot easier than pouring it in place but I'm not sure it's necessary if you brace your cabinet. If you are going to use cement board I'd venture a guess that BB is overkill.
Tinny, I have only ever used it for silicone disease, when continued sanding is not an option.
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/zinnser-shellac-369g-spray/943747
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/zinnser-shellac-369g-spray/943747
Cement board makes sense for mass damping - particularly if mounted with elastomeric adhesives for constrained layer, but well fit BB plywood or solid hardwood members would likely provide superior bracing / structural integrity.
Then of course, to my chiropractor's kids' disappointment (someone else can subsidize their DisneyWorld spring break), I'm very much of the "as light and stiff as the design allows " school of enclosure fabrication, and the whole brute force mass approach is not so appealing to me.
Then of course, to my chiropractor's kids' disappointment (someone else can subsidize their DisneyWorld spring break), I'm very much of the "as light and stiff as the design allows " school of enclosure fabrication, and the whole brute force mass approach is not so appealing to me.
you got lots of funny stuff 'over there' 😀
not long ago I bought some special glue for mounting panels
looks like thick brown contact glue
quite effective
even dissolved the plastichorn I was working on
but man, the smell lasted several weeks, and was sick every day just being around it
not long ago I bought some special glue for mounting panels
looks like thick brown contact glue
quite effective
even dissolved the plastichorn I was working on
but man, the smell lasted several weeks, and was sick every day just being around it
Thanks Cal,
I've got the best 18mm BB I have seen waiting. I think the subwoofer enclosure will be well carefully braced as best I can and 4mm bitumen pads on panels cut around braces and glue with Evostik Contact adhesive with good 8mm carpet felt on all panels (bitumen without carpet felt seemed to have too much reflection on woofer cones in my Seas 20litre cabs), I have good results with this approach so maybe thinking the cement board won't be needed.
Thanks again Chris, I like your design intention with light and stiff designs but prefer the soundproof design at the moment, seems to work well with all kinds of music and films with am into. I like 12mm BB with rubber internal walls though with certain music, I think there's more life sometimes.
Tinitus is it like a hide glue you used not long ago. The smell of the contact adhesive I used was strong for weeks but I'd still use a strong solvent based than water based.
I've got the best 18mm BB I have seen waiting. I think the subwoofer enclosure will be well carefully braced as best I can and 4mm bitumen pads on panels cut around braces and glue with Evostik Contact adhesive with good 8mm carpet felt on all panels (bitumen without carpet felt seemed to have too much reflection on woofer cones in my Seas 20litre cabs), I have good results with this approach so maybe thinking the cement board won't be needed.
Thanks again Chris, I like your design intention with light and stiff designs but prefer the soundproof design at the moment, seems to work well with all kinds of music and films with am into. I like 12mm BB with rubber internal walls though with certain music, I think there's more life sometimes.
Tinitus is it like a hide glue you used not long ago. The smell of the contact adhesive I used was strong for weeks but I'd still use a strong solvent based than water based.
Don't fit your speaker drivers until after the smell subsides.
Some adhesives and plastics will be adversely affected by the fumes/vapour of the solvent.
Some adhesives and plastics will be adversely affected by the fumes/vapour of the solvent.
Cheers Andrew,
I 'll remember your tip, I've read that silicone for sealing joints in cabs can damage drivers too, is it the fumes with silicone too?
I 'll remember your tip, I've read that silicone for sealing joints in cabs can damage drivers too, is it the fumes with silicone too?
I used RTV Adhesive sealanat to hold the dampening material in place in my speakers. I let it air dry for two weeks before installing the drivers. I could smell acetic acid for the first three days or so.
It does stink for a while, didn't think contact adhesive could damage the drivers aswell like silicone.
Just sound tested the cabs with only the baffle needing a skin (unsure yet what design). I must say I wasn't expecting this much difference. The bass is well more solid, midrange seems smoother and tweeter slightly louder than before (due to 7.2mm wider baffle and 3.6mm higher above tweeter. The whole cabs resonate much less than before, can't believe these used to vibrate all over each panels before bitumen, felt and plywood skin, now hardly anything. 😀 Looks much better now time to stain plywood and maybe laquer then black baffle.
Just sound tested the cabs with only the baffle needing a skin (unsure yet what design). I must say I wasn't expecting this much difference. The bass is well more solid, midrange seems smoother and tweeter slightly louder than before (due to 7.2mm wider baffle and 3.6mm higher above tweeter. The whole cabs resonate much less than before, can't believe these used to vibrate all over each panels before bitumen, felt and plywood skin, now hardly anything. 😀 Looks much better now time to stain plywood and maybe laquer then black baffle.
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