ReTrO:
I Emailed BK Electronics some time ago on behalf of someone I have gotten to know over there. This was BK Electronics' reply:
"Many thanks for your enquiry. We were looking into having a speaker similar to the Shiva manufactured but have since decided not to peruse this as we feel it would be a conflict of interests with our Lab 12 loudspeaker.
Kind Regards
Tom Pearce"
End quote.
If it helps, BK Electronics appears to sell Eminence speakers, including the Lab 12, at the list price here in America. The Lab 12 has Thiele-Small specs similar to the Shiva, except it is a 6 ohm single voice coil.
I Emailed BK Electronics some time ago on behalf of someone I have gotten to know over there. This was BK Electronics' reply:
"Many thanks for your enquiry. We were looking into having a speaker similar to the Shiva manufactured but have since decided not to peruse this as we feel it would be a conflict of interests with our Lab 12 loudspeaker.
Kind Regards
Tom Pearce"
End quote.
If it helps, BK Electronics appears to sell Eminence speakers, including the Lab 12, at the list price here in America. The Lab 12 has Thiele-Small specs similar to the Shiva, except it is a 6 ohm single voice coil.
PS: I would suggest that British DIYers start asking BK if they plan to come out with a clone of the Tempest, since there is no Eminence equivalent like the Eminence Lab 12 is similar to the Shiva. Enough inquiries, and who knows?
Parts Express makes a Tempest clone, or close to a clone, in the DVC 15. So if enough interest is shown, perhaps BK might decide to go ahead with a Tempest clone.
Just a suggestion.
Parts Express makes a Tempest clone, or close to a clone, in the DVC 15. So if enough interest is shown, perhaps BK might decide to go ahead with a Tempest clone.
Just a suggestion.
I'm looking for something good at a budget end for either a twin driver closed sub, or maybe ven looking at a dipole sub now having had bigger look around.
Used a couple of the BK BSB12-100 drivers (to make REL Q100e replicas), and a few of the Peerless XLS-10's. I personnally have a Tempest running in a compact box (approx 500 x 500 x 500mm), due to room restrictions.
A replica Shiva would be great, a pair of them would give some amazing output for running in a reasonable home cinema scenario, or decent low end addon for stereo. I don't think another Temepst size would fit in my house, but maybe some others.
Used a couple of the BK BSB12-100 drivers (to make REL Q100e replicas), and a few of the Peerless XLS-10's. I personnally have a Tempest running in a compact box (approx 500 x 500 x 500mm), due to room restrictions.
A replica Shiva would be great, a pair of them would give some amazing output for running in a reasonable home cinema scenario, or decent low end addon for stereo. I don't think another Temepst size would fit in my house, but maybe some others.
ReTrO said:
A replica Shiva would be great, a pair of them would give some amazing output for running in a reasonable home cinema scenario, or decent low end addon for stereo. I don't think another Temepst size would fit in my house, but maybe some others.
Maybe you are not that far off. BK Electronics sells the Eminence LAB 12 for £127, which is £108 without your VAT.
In America, the Shiva is sold for $125, which is the equivalent of £70.
Putting aside the VAT, the price difference is not outrageous. And the LAB 12 has a bigger magnet, larger frame size and a cast frame, (though I think a well-made stamped frame is fine).
The choice is yours, of course. I just think it is good that there is finally an outlet over there that sells speakers at a price within shouting disatance of the USA. Sometimes I just have to shake my head when I see the price differential between the USA and Britain/Europe.
Nuuk said:
If you are comapring the cost of the two, then I think that 50% extra is outrageous, and then we have to pay the VAT as well!
And just try and find a choice of drivers over here, never mind being able to get the T/S specs on them and you will see why so many of us complain.
Well, I believe the LAB 12 is a somewhat sturdier built speaker than the Shiva-not that there is anything wrong with the Shiva. So you are going to pay something extra.
Rob Wells investigated buying a Shiva over there, and he ended up with a price of 175 pounds. This, for a speaker that costs 125 dollars over here. He opined that considering the staggering differential in prices, he would gladly pay an equal amount of pounds for what something costs in dollars in the US.
Here, you have a situation where you get a somewhat sturdier speaker of approximately equal specs for that pound-per-dollar standard. That's with the VAT thrown in. And being Eminence, of course the Thiele-Small specs are available. Besides, the VAT is hardly the fault of the manufacturer.
By no means am I trying to say that the situation is ideal. I am just saying that with this LAB 12/Shiva situation, the differential is not as bad as it normally is. You are getting a speaker at the American list price, only the VAT is added. And people over here do buy the LAB 12, even though the Shiva is available for 20% cheaper.
Sorry if I touched a nerve. Just trying to help.
At the risk of touching off an explosion, I have a hard time understanding how Peerless drivers are cheaper over here than over there.
You are pretty close to Denmark. Didn't London start out as a Danish town?
Wasn't the EU created to prevent this sort of situation?
I don't think the difference in population is the major problem. Canada, with half Britain's population sells the 6½" HDS for $72US, while Parts Express sells it for $56. The 8" HDS sells for $82US from Solen of Canada, Parts Express sells it for $64. Since Parts Express routinely sells below the "list price", the Canadian Solen price probably is the list price for the US, or close to it.
You are pretty close to Denmark. Didn't London start out as a Danish town?
Wasn't the EU created to prevent this sort of situation?
I don't think the difference in population is the major problem. Canada, with half Britain's population sells the 6½" HDS for $72US, while Parts Express sells it for $56. The 8" HDS sells for $82US from Solen of Canada, Parts Express sells it for $64. Since Parts Express routinely sells below the "list price", the Canadian Solen price probably is the list price for the US, or close to it.
Doc:
Eminence gave this link for the info on the LAB 12. I hve no idea if it has a Faraday ring. Heavy duty subs often do not-the Shiva doesn't. They tend to have extended pole pieces.
http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/
Incidentally, that link gives the distributor for the UK and Europe.
Eminence gave this link for the info on the LAB 12. I hve no idea if it has a Faraday ring. Heavy duty subs often do not-the Shiva doesn't. They tend to have extended pole pieces.
http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/
Incidentally, that link gives the distributor for the UK and Europe.
I wonder why Dan didn't point you to this thread:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76045&highlight=shiva
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76045&highlight=shiva
ok...
they have tested the peerless vs lab12 in a 50 L sealed enclosure....
lab12 is better and peerless sounds "wooly"....
I dont know, sounds a bit like a subjective test.....
If it is true that the lab has no faraday ring then it should perform better on louder levels, and the test says nothing about that, either the crosspoint of the pass/act. filter etc. and the "woolyness" of that....
And for me a 15" pass radiator in combination with either the 12 inch peerless or lab12 is more interesting then closed.... hmmm
Is there anyone who has seen the internal construction of the lab12 speaker?, i'm on the point of choosing one of the two, hope the lab12 has a faraday-ring, then it will be the lab, otherwise probably the peerless...
thanx so far guys!
they have tested the peerless vs lab12 in a 50 L sealed enclosure....
lab12 is better and peerless sounds "wooly"....
I dont know, sounds a bit like a subjective test.....
If it is true that the lab has no faraday ring then it should perform better on louder levels, and the test says nothing about that, either the crosspoint of the pass/act. filter etc. and the "woolyness" of that....
And for me a 15" pass radiator in combination with either the 12 inch peerless or lab12 is more interesting then closed.... hmmm
Is there anyone who has seen the internal construction of the lab12 speaker?, i'm on the point of choosing one of the two, hope the lab12 has a faraday-ring, then it will be the lab, otherwise probably the peerless...
thanx so far guys!
Email To Eminence & Response
Doc:
Sent the following Email to Eminence:
Hi, just a few questions.
A) Does the Lab 12 have a Faraday, or shorting ring?
B) Does the Lab 12 have an extended pole piece?
C) If the answer to both questions is "No", then can you put this woofer in a ported box, run a lot of power, and end up seeing the cone displace as it neared the tuning frquency. This phenomenon is called "suck-in" or "oil-canning" The way to prevent this is to have a symmetrical magnetic field.
Please let me know if this speaker can be placed into a ported box without the cone actualy leaving the center of the voice coil gap and moving inward or outward as Fb is approached. I have seen this happen with some woofers. I want to be sure it won't happen again.
Thank you,
Unquote
Within a few hours, I received the following response:
Hi ,
The Lab12 does not have a faraday ring. It does have a slightly
extended pole piece (about 1/4"). The magnetic field is fairly symmetrical - to be completely symmetrical, the core would have to be extended a lot more, to the point of being impractical. People have used these in ported boxes, and we have not heard of problems with rectification so I think you would be okay.
John Sheerin
Eminence Speaker LLC
P. O. Box 360
Eminence, KY. 40019
phone: 502.845.5622 ext. 233
fax: 502.845.5653
www.eminence.com
Doc:
Sent the following Email to Eminence:
Hi, just a few questions.
A) Does the Lab 12 have a Faraday, or shorting ring?
B) Does the Lab 12 have an extended pole piece?
C) If the answer to both questions is "No", then can you put this woofer in a ported box, run a lot of power, and end up seeing the cone displace as it neared the tuning frquency. This phenomenon is called "suck-in" or "oil-canning" The way to prevent this is to have a symmetrical magnetic field.
Please let me know if this speaker can be placed into a ported box without the cone actualy leaving the center of the voice coil gap and moving inward or outward as Fb is approached. I have seen this happen with some woofers. I want to be sure it won't happen again.
Thank you,
Unquote
Within a few hours, I received the following response:
Hi ,
The Lab12 does not have a faraday ring. It does have a slightly
extended pole piece (about 1/4"). The magnetic field is fairly symmetrical - to be completely symmetrical, the core would have to be extended a lot more, to the point of being impractical. People have used these in ported boxes, and we have not heard of problems with rectification so I think you would be okay.
John Sheerin
Eminence Speaker LLC
P. O. Box 360
Eminence, KY. 40019
phone: 502.845.5622 ext. 233
fax: 502.845.5653
www.eminence.com
Doc:
In addition to the LAB 12, I believe Eminence makes the Shiva, probably the Tempest, and also probably the Dayton Titanic and the Dayton DVC 15. All of these long excursion subs have extended pole pieces and no Faraday rings.
Peerless has been putting Faraday rings on it's better woofers since 1992 at least, and they appear to be devoted to taking that approach to good subwoofer design. Both approaches apparently work well in subs, but I am given to believe that the Faraday ring has additional benefits.
In addition to the LAB 12, I believe Eminence makes the Shiva, probably the Tempest, and also probably the Dayton Titanic and the Dayton DVC 15. All of these long excursion subs have extended pole pieces and no Faraday rings.
Peerless has been putting Faraday rings on it's better woofers since 1992 at least, and they appear to be devoted to taking that approach to good subwoofer design. Both approaches apparently work well in subs, but I am given to believe that the Faraday ring has additional benefits.
thanks a lot wizz!
I think I might stick with the peerless guys then.... the 2 dB's more efficiency (@40...60Hz in a 50L enclosure) is not the most important issue for me....
I don't exactly understand at this moment how an extended pole piece makes a better symmetrical magn. field (think ext. pole piece is the alu piece under the dome?) but ill go and sit down, do some reading about it and find out, without bothering anyone thanks again!!!
I think I might stick with the peerless guys then.... the 2 dB's more efficiency (@40...60Hz in a 50L enclosure) is not the most important issue for me....
I don't exactly understand at this moment how an extended pole piece makes a better symmetrical magn. field (think ext. pole piece is the alu piece under the dome?) but ill go and sit down, do some reading about it and find out, without bothering anyone
thanks again!!!- Status
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