im getting ready to replace the small caps on some 20 year old adcom amps & a preamp, & eventually will do some other brand amps i have & was wondering what the "best" brand/model caps are for the money. i know thats a loaded question & everyone has their own opinions. just wondering what most people use in the mid-fi price range.
im not looking for anywhere near the best, im actually on somewhat of a budget since im doing multiple units. this is only for the smaller electrolytic caps not the big power caps in the amps. im seeing lots of guys use nichicon & some say panasonic but they might be harder to find.
does changing these aged & cheap caps improve the sound of the amp or preamp?
im trying to place 1 order for all the caps i will need, mouser has another part i need to repair the tuner in the preamp so i will be ordering from them most likely.
im not looking for anywhere near the best, im actually on somewhat of a budget since im doing multiple units. this is only for the smaller electrolytic caps not the big power caps in the amps. im seeing lots of guys use nichicon & some say panasonic but they might be harder to find.
does changing these aged & cheap caps improve the sound of the amp or preamp?
im trying to place 1 order for all the caps i will need, mouser has another part i need to repair the tuner in the preamp so i will be ordering from them most likely.
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Hi adcomman, since you made this thread i tought i can post here a question too realated.
I own an old Pioneer a-702R from ( 1996 i think ) how can I know the caps are still good ?
it sounds amazing
I had troubles with it only one time , it sounded distorted a bit , and I checked dc offset and it was 100mv ( a bit to much ) I searched for the manual and how to adjust dc offset but had to go.. after a few hours i powered the amp back and it sounded cristal again , measured the offset and it was ( 40 or so ) what caused this ?
Thanks, and for your question i dont know , im new to hi-fi
i build a few amplifiers my self but with cheap components ( as a hobby ) so i cant recommend you a brand, but panasonic seems good i saw them in a lot of hi fi amps.
I own an old Pioneer a-702R from ( 1996 i think ) how can I know the caps are still good ?
it sounds amazing
I had troubles with it only one time , it sounded distorted a bit , and I checked dc offset and it was 100mv ( a bit to much ) I searched for the manual and how to adjust dc offset but had to go.. after a few hours i powered the amp back and it sounded cristal again , measured the offset and it was ( 40 or so ) what caused this ?
Thanks, and for your question i dont know , im new to hi-fi
i build a few amplifiers my self but with cheap components ( as a hobby ) so i cant recommend you a brand, but panasonic seems good i saw them in a lot of hi fi amps.
The caps which are most likely to need changing in an old amp are the main PSU reservoir caps. I'm puzzled that you seem to want to change all the rest (which are probably fine) but leave the PSU caps (which may not be fine).
'Recapping' is a quick way for someone who knows how to solder to kid himself that he has improved an amp. It is also quite a quick way to stop the amp from working.
Replacing faulty components will improve the sound of an amp. Replacing good components with other good components will make no difference.
'Recapping' is a quick way for someone who knows how to solder to kid himself that he has improved an amp. It is also quite a quick way to stop the amp from working.
Replacing faulty components will improve the sound of an amp. Replacing good components with other good components will make no difference.
When blanket re-capping it is vital to know and understand why particular types and values are used in each position.
"If some is good, more is better" does not always work!
"If some is good, more is better" does not always work!
The Panasonic FR are a good quality, long life, high temp and low ESR cap and are cheap too.
Replace all general caps with theses for a new lease of life.
Even caps in Krell and Mark Levinson start to leak, or lose capacitance within 20 years, even in cool ambient conditions.
For reservoir caps, EPCOS seem to be very good, with High Ripple Current, Low ESR and long life and again pricing seems good.
Replace all general caps with theses for a new lease of life.
Even caps in Krell and Mark Levinson start to leak, or lose capacitance within 20 years, even in cool ambient conditions.
For reservoir caps, EPCOS seem to be very good, with High Ripple Current, Low ESR and long life and again pricing seems good.
thats kind of a general statement & doesnt apply to this particular series of adcom amps. actually the PSU caps on these amps are of very high quality & most dont go bad at this point in their age. however, the smaller electrolytic caps im refering to are notorious for going bad, due to age & simply very poor quality. so in this case the caps in question are not "probably fine" & indeed need to be changed. these caps are known to leak & contaminate the PC boards & cause all kinds of problems....
& why would replacing a questionable cap thats known to go bad with the same value cap "stop the amp from working?"
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Unintended damage from a duffer with a soldering iron and little knowledge of how electronics work.
thanks but i fully understand & am aware how to properly replace caps... pretty basic concept. im not trying to modify any values or change the factory design. just replace low quality 20 year old electrolytic caps, mainly as preventative maitnance since the signal caps in these amps are known to go bad. again, just replace for same values, not "more is better."
thanks for the info mikevo! i will consider those panasonics.
yes, a new lease on life is the only goal here.
a duffer with a soldering iron??? sorry i dont play golf. & im more than capable of changing out some caps...
it was just a simple question about opinions on some basic caps. changing out aged caps is a well known practice to either improve on the cheap stuff most manufacturers use, or in my case to get a new lease on life for some amps that are known to have problems with their caps. to assume that i dont know how to replace caps or being puzzled as to why cheap old caps should be replaced doesnt contribute much to the thread & doesnt answer the question at all. but thanks anyways.
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Most manufacturers use ordinary components, not "cheap stuff".
Changing caps may seem simple, but lots of people get it wrong. New forum joiners with faulty keyboards often fit into this pattern, so sorry if we jumped to conclusions.
You did ask
Changing caps may seem simple, but lots of people get it wrong. New forum joiners with faulty keyboards often fit into this pattern, so sorry if we jumped to conclusions.
You did ask
which implies some lack of knowledge - if you knew you would not need to ask.adcomman said:
i beg to differ on that. "most" mid-fi manufacturers of SS components & speakers use the cheapest parts they can get. a capacitor that fails & leaks in a relatively short time is not "ordinary." neither is using glorified cardboard for PCB's that soak up said leaked fluid like a sponge. but the main thing in this thread is i named a specific brand of amplifier that is well known for using cheap caps & is very common for owners to want or need to replace the small caps. so theres that...
& i agree "lots of people" can get it wrong, but why would you assume im one of those people? because im new here? or because i type fast on a phone & dont bother with proper caps or puncuation for a casual internet forum question? most people can read this sort of typing/texting in todays day & age. didnt realize i was being graded.
so because i asked for opinions on if changing cheap/aged caps would improve the sound, that implies lack of knowledge? sorry but many people have differing opinions on this subject, just like lots of people think one brand of cap sounds "better" than another yet others say if the specs are the same they will sound the same... or how some say caps need burned in & others say absolutely not. i was just looking for a few opinions on that, nothing more.
but since we are on the subject: being puzzled why one would want to change out cheap/aged caps & saying "all the other caps are probably fine" now THAT implies lack of knowledge. or at least lack of knowledge about this particular brand. same goes for the assumption that the psu caps are bad... im puzzled why you would think that but then assume the other caps are probably good??? what logic is that based on?
no offense intended here, i asked a question & you sir have yet to contribute any usefull info. your condescending comments were not needed, but are entertaining. no need to reply with more of that.
i have done somne research & mentioned 2 popular brands of caps people use for this situation. again, was just looking for some opinions on them or in general about cap replacement for this brand of amps & pre's. i will go with panasonics if they are easy to find or the nichicons.
& FWIW, i guess i should have stated my experience level to avoid the above assumptions & judgements. ive been in the mid-fi audio hobby for 30 years, ive been soldering for just as long on amatuer projects & have an above averge understanding of electronics. granted im far from a pro but more than capable of swapping out basic capacitors & other misc components.
thanks again to the members that gave usefull info.
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You asked for opinions. You clearly don't like my opinion.
As this is a DIY forum some of us are not up to speed on the particular unusual failings of certain commercial amplifiers. We do know that, in general, reservoir caps in the PSU face the most challenging electrical environment (due to ripple current) and in most cases are therefore the first to fail. I am surprised that you seem unaware of this.
As this is a DIY forum some of us are not up to speed on the particular unusual failings of certain commercial amplifiers. We do know that, in general, reservoir caps in the PSU face the most challenging electrical environment (due to ripple current) and in most cases are therefore the first to fail. I am surprised that you seem unaware of this.
yes, i asked for opinions on the questions i asked... problem is you didnt really give an opinion on the questions, just made an assumption of what im working on or why im doing it. then questioned my skill level with comments on me being new or my keyboard or how the amp will not work if i replace some small caps. i tried to be very specific of what i was working on & why, i even said 2 times this was about the small caps only due to age & being of known cheap quality... my apologies if that was unclear.
again with the assumptions... nobody mentioned being unaware of general issues with some power caps failing on some amps. can we stop doing this now? thanks for your help DF. have a great day.
again with the assumptions... nobody mentioned being unaware of general issues with some power caps failing on some amps. can we stop doing this now? thanks for your help DF. have a great day.
You should be happy DF96 got here first, otherwise this thread could have been filled with audiophoolery at this point. He knows everything about this and he's got a refreshing no-nonsense approach about it.
I don't know about Adcom but most japanese manufacturers used japanese capacitors, which tend to stay alive forever. This is still true today so definitely, using Nichicon or Panasonic capacitors is a good choice, but more than that isn't really relevant. Certainly, using caps marketed "for audio" is totally unnecessary and won't "sound better". I actually use them, but only because those are the cheapest from my preferred store, and for a reason: look at the datasheets - their specs are worse than the industrial parts. 😉
I work with industrial electronics and we only use Epcos, Panasonic and Nichicon electrolytic capacitors due to their high quality. They need to withstand a lot of constant stress without failing, ever, basically. And they don't! Else we'd be out of business. 😉
I don't know about Adcom but most japanese manufacturers used japanese capacitors, which tend to stay alive forever. This is still true today so definitely, using Nichicon or Panasonic capacitors is a good choice, but more than that isn't really relevant. Certainly, using caps marketed "for audio" is totally unnecessary and won't "sound better". I actually use them, but only because those are the cheapest from my preferred store, and for a reason: look at the datasheets - their specs are worse than the industrial parts. 😉
I work with industrial electronics and we only use Epcos, Panasonic and Nichicon electrolytic capacitors due to their high quality. They need to withstand a lot of constant stress without failing, ever, basically. And they don't! Else we'd be out of business. 😉
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Oh dear! Haven't we got our panties in a twist?
You asked for advice, but only specific answers to specific questions otherwise you will be insulted and take offence and eject toys from pram!
Grow up man, you are sounding like a wuzz!
You asked for advice, but only specific answers to specific questions otherwise you will be insulted and take offence and eject toys from pram!
Grow up man, you are sounding like a wuzz!
hey no hard feelings, i welcome his & any opinions, as long as they are related to the question, not other tangents that serve no real purpose & jump to conclusions over a new members rather simple & clear question.
yes, adcom in the 555 series of amps & the 565 & 585 apparently used very cheap caps on very cheap input PCB's. so that is a known issue that im trying to avoid potential damage & also at least improve on the quality of the originals & or degraded condition due to age.
i have also ran into failed "cheap" electrolytic caps in many japanese or asian products from computer power supplies to tv's & other mid priced modern electronics. the consensus ive read, from experienced people, is that many 20-30 year old electrolytic caps are verly likely to have fallen out of spec or dried up or bulged etc. im sure there are some brands that are of great quality & working great, these amps & many other mid fi gear of that age are unfortunantly not in that category. majority of their gear is pretty good for the price range, but just like any product there can be defects, in fact i think i read a big run of them are directly related to a "defective batch" of caps, so most work fine, but better safe than sorry.
yes, adcom in the 555 series of amps & the 565 & 585 apparently used very cheap caps on very cheap input PCB's. so that is a known issue that im trying to avoid potential damage & also at least improve on the quality of the originals & or degraded condition due to age.
i have also ran into failed "cheap" electrolytic caps in many japanese or asian products from computer power supplies to tv's & other mid priced modern electronics. the consensus ive read, from experienced people, is that many 20-30 year old electrolytic caps are verly likely to have fallen out of spec or dried up or bulged etc. im sure there are some brands that are of great quality & working great, these amps & many other mid fi gear of that age are unfortunantly not in that category. majority of their gear is pretty good for the price range, but just like any product there can be defects, in fact i think i read a big run of them are directly related to a "defective batch" of caps, so most work fine, but better safe than sorry.
panties in a twist? what??? of course i asked for advice, on a specific question, isn't that what ya do on forums like this? im not upset or offended at all, im simply replying to the unecessary comments made from a couple members. seems other meembers were able to answer with legitimate opinions & suggestions & didnt read anything else into the simple questions. hmmm.
you must be a member of the welcome wagon too cliffff? did i do something wrong here? ejecting toys from the pram?? wow, you sure are whimsical! grow up man? sounding like a wuzz??? thats funny, beacuse you are sounding like a troll! but by all means carry on.
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Hi adcomman,
I was authorized warranty for this brand. Those capacitors were not cheap, and in fact Adcom used better parts than most, especially later on. So the cheap cap call isn't applicable here at all.
In those series of amplifiers, many capacitors used were defective from the manufacturer. They were not a cheap capacitor either. The electrolyte was defective as in not right.
So do change out those capacitors if you can do so without damaging the foil. Use a good solid brand of capacitor to replace them. Audiophile approved parts are only more expensive, not better. If you want to spend a lot, then go to Digikey, select "audio capacitors" and pick the most expensive ones. That should just about do you.
Me? I test capacitors and use what actually does represent a good capacitor. Those are used and are a variety of brands, and it depends on the job they are doing.
Yes, the main filter capacitors are normally fine. They weren't cheap either.
-Chris
I was authorized warranty for this brand. Those capacitors were not cheap, and in fact Adcom used better parts than most, especially later on. So the cheap cap call isn't applicable here at all.
In those series of amplifiers, many capacitors used were defective from the manufacturer. They were not a cheap capacitor either. The electrolyte was defective as in not right.
So do change out those capacitors if you can do so without damaging the foil. Use a good solid brand of capacitor to replace them. Audiophile approved parts are only more expensive, not better. If you want to spend a lot, then go to Digikey, select "audio capacitors" and pick the most expensive ones. That should just about do you.
Me? I test capacitors and use what actually does represent a good capacitor. Those are used and are a variety of brands, and it depends on the job they are doing.
Yes, the main filter capacitors are normally fine. They weren't cheap either.
-Chris
hi anatech
yes ive chatted with you about this amp & issue before, part of why i posted asking for opinions on what brand cap to use. i had read in other places the small caps used were "cheap" or of cheaper quality, thats why they failed. i also read there was a batch of defective ones too. either way, i think you can agree they should be changed & sounds like name brand panasonics or nichicon are perfectly fine & priced low. i agree with that approach & had no plans of buying over priced over rated caps. i dont have the means of testing caps so i thought id asked what brand most guys liked.
thanks for your input. i know what i will be using for replacements caps & have located the part needed for the bad tuner in the preamp.
yes ive chatted with you about this amp & issue before, part of why i posted asking for opinions on what brand cap to use. i had read in other places the small caps used were "cheap" or of cheaper quality, thats why they failed. i also read there was a batch of defective ones too. either way, i think you can agree they should be changed & sounds like name brand panasonics or nichicon are perfectly fine & priced low. i agree with that approach & had no plans of buying over priced over rated caps. i dont have the means of testing caps so i thought id asked what brand most guys liked.
thanks for your input. i know what i will be using for replacements caps & have located the part needed for the bad tuner in the preamp.