Good point. You may be able to rotate the BIB design, put the driver in what would have been the side, then you would have a very shallow box
I would also suggest you look at the BIB speaker design. A quick google will get you the BIB calculator. You can review and decide.
I have a some FE166en speakers in 8 foot tall 9.5 cubic feet boxes. I love the way they load the room. The sound is "effortless " as GM has so succinctly described.
I have a some FE166en speakers in 8 foot tall 9.5 cubic feet boxes. I love the way they load the room. The sound is "effortless " as GM has so succinctly described.
Cool. There are lots of good ideas out there, and some very clever people on this forum. One thing I've been wondering about is maybe a really long transmission line. Typically, everybody works with quarter waves. Is there a reason for that, or is it just about space? Would a half-wave or full wave TL work, or is there a reason involving a lot of scary math that it is never done?
Transmission line works very well with full range drivers, I have Jordan Eikona in VTL. As for the length of the line, quarter wave works to sum the rear wave and front wave at the tuned frequency, thus supporting the lower frequencies
Yeah, in the end it's probably not worth the extra carpentry and ruined wood for me to attempt a TL. Basically I'm just looking for a way to let my drivers do the best they can. Even in a sealed enclosure, they get me enough low end to get within range of where the sub can fill in the rest.
For perspective, my favourite headphones are Grados and Etymotics. I value clarity and accuracy the most. The Etymotic ER4s are perfect sound reproduction devices to me, other than they lack low end. If I could add a sub to my Etys to get a bit more from about 80hz down, that would be perfection. Hence, my interest in really big enclosures to let my drivers do their thing with no unnecessary interference.
For perspective, my favourite headphones are Grados and Etymotics. I value clarity and accuracy the most. The Etymotic ER4s are perfect sound reproduction devices to me, other than they lack low end. If I could add a sub to my Etys to get a bit more from about 80hz down, that would be perfection. Hence, my interest in really big enclosures to let my drivers do their thing with no unnecessary interference.
Yes they would be very difficult to build out of pine, you really need to use ply, that's what I used but I had all the pieces cut professionally. If you are trying to emulate an IB then the sealing and woodworking is not so critical since in reality all you are attempting is to absorb the rear waves.
Yeah, my philosophy has always been to do a simple thing well, rather than try to be complicated and mess it up. The Church of Johnny Ramone!
Since this seems to be a man cave just for you, this might appeal to you. Forget about monkey coffins and infinite baffle enclosures. Just mount your fullrangers to a flat baffle measuring about 12x12" and place them very close to your head on either side, hanging from the ceiling. You will then be in the driver's near field, so room modes and the dipole response disappear like magic. Unfortunately because the drivers are not large, the nearfield only extends a few inches from the drivers so they will essentially need to be used like open cup headphones, and that's IS what they will essentially be in essence. By hanging the subwoofer just behind your head you will also be in its nearfield. You will need much less power because of the close proximity to the driver so be careful with the volume. I think you could very easily give this a try, and if you don't like it you can still build your monkey coffins.
That is an interesting approach. It certainly illustrates something I was dwelling on just now, which is the difficulty of getting a decent nearfield setup when you've got a big honking monitor (or two in my case) right in front of you. My current speakers are suspended from the ceiling, which is okay, but there is only a very small sweet spot where everything sounds right. Also, I get a crick in my neck because I tend to look upwards without realizing it. Maybe I should just switch to headphones.
well, not necessarily "absorb" the rear waves - just isolate them from the intended listening area
who can't remember reading descriptions of infinite baffle with an example of "cut hole(s) in the wall between two rooms..." ? Never did experiment with that, but I'd imagine that the room would need to be pretty small before the mixed output of rear waves from stereo signal would affect things
who can't remember reading descriptions of infinite baffle with an example of "cut hole(s) in the wall between two rooms..." ? Never did experiment with that, but I'd imagine that the room would need to be pretty small before the mixed output of rear waves from stereo signal would affect things
Sadly, cutting holes in the walls is not an option, on account of there being a wife and child lurking out there. Basically the plan is to make enclosures big enough to give the same effect. Creating a Vb that's ten times Vas will apparently do the trick. Surprisingly, nobody seems to have tried it.
Seen pictures where multiple drivers are mounted in a manifold outside the house with a hole in the wall...the ultimate...? Wonder what the neighbours make of it. I'm thinking mainly of subs, for some reason people get quite excited by them
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Yeah, while trying to find information on this, it's mostly subwoofer discussions that come up.
For me, I'd like to minimize group delay, which I seem to be oddly sensitive to, and give the driver the ability to move freely, as in an open baffle. I'm not sure what the effects would be on distortion. The driver has a Qts of .44, so I think it should be okay in such arrangement, but I'm hoping for some input from someone with more knowledge than me (which leaves the field pretty wide open).
For me, I'd like to minimize group delay, which I seem to be oddly sensitive to, and give the driver the ability to move freely, as in an open baffle. I'm not sure what the effects would be on distortion. The driver has a Qts of .44, so I think it should be okay in such arrangement, but I'm hoping for some input from someone with more knowledge than me (which leaves the field pretty wide open).
well,I may not have more knowledge than you but just want to say that I've always been
A fan of big cabinets (my Goodmans Axiom 100's need A big cabinet) but the Dude with the
8 ft. cabinets that's big!I have to add I can't believe what these guys are asking for a T-35
tweeter.---$500----per pair--I'll pass,thank you!
A fan of big cabinets (my Goodmans Axiom 100's need A big cabinet) but the Dude with the
8 ft. cabinets that's big!I have to add I can't believe what these guys are asking for a T-35
tweeter.---$500----per pair--I'll pass,thank you!
I may not be more knowlegable than you but I've always
been A fan of big cabinets (my Goodmans Axiom 100's
need A big cabinet)but that dude with 8ft.cabinets
now that's big! Can't believe what guys are asking
for the t-35 tweeters. $500 per pair? No thank you!
been A fan of big cabinets (my Goodmans Axiom 100's
need A big cabinet)but that dude with 8ft.cabinets
now that's big! Can't believe what guys are asking
for the t-35 tweeters. $500 per pair? No thank you!
For anyone else interested in this topic, there is some interesting info in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/96583-qts-ob-explanation-needed.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/96583-qts-ob-explanation-needed.html
Jim, I had another look at that link you posted to the Nautaloss, and I think you may be onto something there. Now that the caffeine has worn off and my brain has slowed down to a functional level, I see that such a system could probably be replicated even by a chimpanzee like myself. I've read about long, heavily stuffed transmission lines being used as what amounts to an infinite baffle. With enough length and stuffing, there's basically no output from the port as the sound energy is all dissipated or absorbed before it gets out . I'm not sure what effects it would have on the driver's ability to move freely without the spring effect from the air. In a way I guess it would be like an elaborate aperiodic enclosure, maybe not quite as unrestricted as an open baffle, but maybe that's a good thing. Now I have more to think about. Thanks, Jim. 🙂
Been there, done that back in the '70s with a stereo pair of false wall 300 Ft^3 IBs loaded with low Qt Altec 515B wide BW woofers + 500 Hz horns in a then neighbor's partitioned below grade concrete block, floor basement and other than its obvious lack of high power handling down low it's the best orchestral system I've auditioned, though with room gain and nearly 101dB efficient, high power handling wasn't needed to reach front row center at the Atlanta Pops based on some measurements using a borrowed, calibrated, SPL meter.
Doing IBs for a small 'FR' driver OTOH will ideally require a very high 1st order XO point to get most of an IB's performance benefits, so OB is a much better overall choice since a driver theoretically wants to 'feel' a matching acoustical impedance on both sides [the point of using an IB] and allow the driver to be all it can be in/above its mass controlled BW [~2*Fs/Qts'].
Qts' = Qts + any added series resistance: mh-audio.nl - Home
GM
Yeah, way back when I built 8 ft^3 towers [MLTL nowadays] for a particularly good performing RadioShack 8" wide range, high Qt woofer and folks thought I was nuts till I cranked them up with some Jimmy Smith organ Jazz, making yet another barter sale. Still, when they're tall the footprint isn't all that large unless the room's really tiny and even then if done in a triangular corner cab the space generally isn't being used anyway.
Biggest free standing cabs I've built were 30 ft^3 and for a few decades had corner loaded 50+ft^3 horn systems, though now downsized to only ~20 ft^3 plus old 500 Hz horns perched on top.
GM
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